[macrojack]

I don't have the number in front of me so I'll simply say SEVERAL major auto manufacturers have announced that they will stop making ICE engines within the next several years. Are they lying to boost sales? Or have they done the research to discover that the electric vehicle is inevitable given the current state of world affairs and climate emergencies and (probably) petroleum reserves. Certainly there will be stubborn or sentimental types who will try to hang on but they will be curators, not drivers.

Those of you who continue to doubt the inevitable end to the common use of internal combustion engines need to find better information sources.

And for god's sake stop harping on the nonsense about battery disposal. We neither create or destroy energy. All we do is concentrate it all in a few places (landfills, etc.) or convert it to another energy form. Fossil fuels amount to "battery" storage of the sun's energy, nothing more. The problem with them is that they cannot be replenished as quickly as we are using them. Solar energy, within any time frame we can comprehend is inexhaustible. This is what is meant by "sustainable".

I think it makes sense that battery recycling and battery life will both improve over time. But a number of car makers are working to refine hydrogen cell cars to the point of obsoleting the electric versions. Most of us at AC are too old to be looking that far ahead however.


To quote Talking Heads, "This thing is real...." Here are a few links that you might find convincing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/gm-going-all-electric-will-ditch-gas-diesel-powered-cars-n806806

https://www.quora.com/How-long-is-it-till-gas-cars-are-obsolete

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170803/ANE/170809854/german-automakers-will-stop-developing-combustion-engines-in-six

https://futurism.com/toyota-just-announced-a-deadline-for-the-phasing-out-of-gas-engines/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2017/07/05/volvo-says-it-will-stop-designing-combustion-engine-only-cars-by-2019/#706ddc961fa3

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/countries-are-announcing-plans-to-phase-out-petrol-and-diesel-cars-is-yours-on-the-list/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/we-mean-business/the-death-of-the-internal_b_13533290.html

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/13/16293258/ev-revolution

https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/reality-behind-britains-ban-internal-combustion-engine

https://qz.com/1341155/nine-countries-say-they-will-ban-internal-combustion-engines-none-have-a-law-to-do-so/

[avahifi]

IF I get the Tesla, it will need only one stop from Woodbury to Chicago for Axpona.  I am not doing RMAF any more, not cost effective.  But if I did, it would be three stops, not five, and need those for rest stops and meals anyway.  No big deal.  With the back seat folded down, the Tesla has nearly the room for our equipment as does my Audi Avant.

I have not purchased a car in 17 years.  We build long term keeper equipment, not short term throwaway stuff.  I am not doing much damage to the planet, and a Tesla will help me keep doing that.

Don’t be a FUD.  🙂

Frank

[DaveC113]

But Dave if you're going to take the energy transmission into account, you have to also account for the energy required to build the drills, extract the oil, transport it to the refineries, the energy to convert it to gas and transport and distribute it to the gas stations.

That's fairly insignificant... only a few percent.

[Wayner]

IF I get the Tesla, it will need only one stop from Woodbury to Chicago for Axpona.  I am not doing RMAF any more, not cost effective.  But if I did, it would be three stops, not five, and need those for rest stops and meals anyway.  No big deal.  With the back seat folded down, the Tesla has nearly the room for our equipment as does my Audi Avant.

I have not purchased a car in 17 years.  We build long term keeper equipment, not short term throwaway stuff.  I am not doing much damage to the planet, and a Tesla will help me keep doing that.

Don’t be a FUD.  🙂

Frank

If you use a furnace, air conditioning, have lights, consume water, release waste water, CO2, CO, all kinds of other things, and your home also produces garbage, even recycle stuff rots and consumes oxygen, releases CO2, then you are doing damage.

The big fairy dust in the whole thing is that those that buy "earth friendly" stuff don't realize that the processes to make "earth friendly" stuff is as bad as the rest of modern day manufacturing. You still need to drive somewhere, so someone needs to build new roads, repair roads, salt roads in the winter, clear roads of snow. Unless you walk, you and your vehicle in direct or indirect ways, are "causing harm" to good old mother earth.

[jtwrace]

If you use a furnace, air conditioning, have lights, consume water, release waste water, CO2, CO, all kinds of other things, and your home also produces garbage, even recycle stuff rots and consumes oxygen, releases CO2, then you are doing damage.

The big fairy dust in the whole thing is that those that buy "earth friendly" stuff don't realize that the processes to make "earth friendly" stuff is as bad as the rest of modern day manufacturing. You still need to drive somewhere, so someone needs to build new roads, repair roads, salt roads in the winter, clear roads of snow. Unless you walk, you and your vehicle in direct or indirect ways, are "causing harm" to good old mother earth.

100% true!  Very few ever look at the total picture.

[WGH]

Here arfe updates if you need one.

https://truththeory.com/2018/04/29/this-man-one-ups-tesla-by-inventing-an-electric-car-that-never-needs-charging/

https://www.zambianobserver.com/update-donald-trump-usa-snatch-top-zimbabwean-inventor-maxwell-chikumbutso/

If Elon Musk had invented this car, I am sure he would not be able to sell it today. Look at what they did with Nikola Tesla and his free energy inventions.

Some or all of us here have probably heard of the 100 mpg carburetor. I have a friend that had a Yamaha mini-van that got 106 mpg. Yamaha had mistakenly sold this and tried many times to buy it back. Of course, he kept it until it wore out.

There is a lot more information about this emerging tech and Chikumbutso's current progress here:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-invent-electric-car-no-charging/

[mr_bill]

Elon Musk and Tesla are the darling child of the media - can't go wrong no matter what they do or say, reality may prove him right or wrong.

I do like the electric car evolution, but the endless fawning over Musk and Tesla is getting old.

 

[martyo]

There is a lot more information about this emerging tech and Chikumbutso's current progress here:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-invent-electric-car-no-charging/

 

[OzarkTom]

There is a lot more information about this emerging tech and Chikumbutso's current progress here:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-invent-electric-car-no-charging/

Ah yes good ole lying Snopes. I also have some ocean front property to sell you here in the Ozarks.

https://www.wnd.com/2017/07/hookers-lies-and-fraud-snopes-in-danger-of-closing-doors/

[Wayner]

Buying a new vehicle as I did this spring should not be based on popular notions or save the earth promotions. It should be affordable, and fit the needs of the consumer. Waiting around for a half hour to charge up (or what ever it takes) is not something that I want to do when I'm on a trip, especially when I'm on the way home. I like to make "Indy" type pit stops, fill up, pea, pay and get going again. Recharging is not in the picture.

I bought my F150 based on needs and the comfort of the ride. My driving habits are limited to smaller trips so the truck and the wife's Fusion Titanium barely get a few thousand miles on per year, so the need for extreme gas mileage is not an issue.

The real problem with the world today is the approximately 150,000 new people on it every day. In a week, that's about a million more people to feed, cloth, find shelter for. If you want to save the world, this problem has to be addressed. It's not a political issue, it's a logistics issue.

My advice to Frank is to find something that fits his age and life style. You deserve a comfortable ride (you earned it) and if you think the Tesla is the answer, so be it. Maybe you should rent a gas gussler when you go to Michigan.......

[sts9fan]

Nobody buys EVs for “trips”. If you drive over 150miles/day often you should look elsewhere.
I rent a car the two or three times a year I travel out of range. I have only charged not at home once in four years of EV ownership.

[Wayner]

Nobody buys EVs for “trips”. If you drive over 150miles/day often you should look elsewhere.
I rent a car the two or three times a year I travel out of range. I have only charged not at home once in four years of EV ownership.

Well, Frank was going to take his on a trip (to Chicago) and I suggested a rental.

What an expense. When I fill up my F150 I have a range of about 825 miles before empty.

Might as well get a golf cart and drive that around.

BTW, it was brought up that the batteries last and last. Well, every time you recharge, the batteries loose capacity. When you drive the car at 80 MPH, the recharge times become closer (or more often), otherwise, someone has invented the perpetual motion machine.

Electric car fine for short trips, charge at home, Pay huge up front cost, worthless for going on any trips............What a concept.

[DaveC113]

Golf carts are a great idea. The city of Lyons legalized golf carts in town limits and lots of locals drive them around. Speed limits are not over 25 mph in town.

An even better idea is ebikes, these are becoming very popular and will hopefully encourage more people to commute by bike.

[Wayner]

They can drive in our town, but not on state or federal highways (or the shoulders).

[artur9]

As I see it @avahifi said he had a blast driving the Tesla (as do I with my electric).

Then all these people come out to say how awful electric cars are for the environment.  Sure, whatever.  At least I won't die if I leave it turned on in the garage and fall asleep.  There's a really funny "review" of ICE cars that I can't find right now that sums it up nicely.

@avahifi, are you going to test it again?

[avahifi]

I likely will order one early next year for delivery in the spring.

Expecting a bit lower prices and longer range by then.

The real reason is that I have never driven a car so much fun and safe to drive.

I will probably get the AWD performance model.  Zero to 60 in 3.5 seconds.  Try that with your truck, Wayne.   😊

Frank

[ketcham]

There are many 'modified' Ford diesel trucks that are sub 3 seconds.  Google them.  Neat to see.  The bloom of black smoke is impressive.

My partner ordered her 3 all wheel drive and had it in less than a week from her order. 

I would also agree with your AWD-Performance choice.  If you order now, you can have unlimited charging too.  Performance is at least 2 months out and you still receive a substantial tax credit for taking ownership before 2019.  That will cover most, or depending on the state which you live, the cost of the performance package.

I did take my car loan through Tesla, which is subsidized, @ 0.75% interest was for me quite ideal.  Alliant Credit Union out of Chicago is another Loan that sometimes bests Tesla.  You can live anywhere to qualify. 

[WGH]

Ah yes good ole lying Snopes. I also have some ocean front property to sell you here in the Ozarks.

https://www.wnd.com/2017/07/hookers-lies-and-fraud-snopes-in-danger-of-closing-doors/

I think that is called a "pivot", where you comment on something not even remotely on the topic. Saith Technologies and Chikumbutso was not mentioned in the article you linked.
Besides, that is old news. Wired magazine had a much better written article a year ago in their Sept. 2017 issue, you can read it online too:
https://www.wired.com/story/snopes-and-the-search-for-facts-in-a-post-fact-world/
Even though the Wired article is way off [this] topic, it is a good read if you like long form writing, Wired articles are always well written and fun to read.

Whether you believe in Snopes or not, you have to admit that there have been no more demo's of the magic car since the 1 (one) day demo on July 20, 2015. Technically the car and the underlying technology is vaporware at this point.

BTW - Selling any lake front property? Season 2 of Ozark just started on Netflix and I would like to get in the mood. Season 1 was great.

Good debate guys!

[jtwrace]

They can drive in our town, but not on state or federal highways (or the shoulders).

https://www.dirtlegal.com/


 

[WGH]

I found security footage of Frank's Tesla test drive  :

Security footage of airborne Tesla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=2xFji9-xgMw

With a little calculation (below), Wired figured out how fast it was going - 44.7 m/s or 100 mph

Here's How Fast That Jumping Tesla Was Traveling
https://www.wired.com/story/heres-how-fast-that-jumping-tesla-was-traveling/