Who else HATES Miles Davis?

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rockadanny

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #140 on: 2 Sep 2014, 01:44 pm »
Quote
ignorance for where and how and why he is a genius

That is a myopic point of view.

Knowledge will not necessarily (I agree it possibly can, but not as a concrete rule) change your preference for a certain person's type of music. I'm not talking about denying one's impact on the art form, but personal feelings/emotions/judgement as to whether ot not you like what you hear.

For example, Frank Sinatra, "Chairman of the Board". I do not like his music at all. I recognize how popular and influential he was, and still loved and adored by many. But believe me, I have heard about his greatness ad infinitum over the past 59 years, and no amount of additional knowledge about him or his style will ever make me like it. Ever. And I do like singers of similar style. But not him. Personal preference, not ignorance.

Consider this please, taste is a sense as well as hearing. Lobster is conidered one of the world's delicacies. Countless people love it. Believe me, no amount of lobster knowledge in the world could ever get me to chew and swallow a bite of that thing. I hate the taste. I have tried it several times over many years. I hate the taste. On occasion I do enjoy shrimp, scallops, muscles, and eat a lot of fish. But not lobster. Is taste so different than hearing? How about any of the senses? I think not. Personal preference, not ignorance.
 


macrojack

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #141 on: 2 Sep 2014, 01:55 pm »
I agree with Rockadanny. There is such a thing as an informed decision. Distaste is not necessarily borne of ignorance.

Mile Davis and Frank Sinatra do not offend me but I'm certainly not drawn to them. Same goes for the Grateful Dead. They are listenable and sometimes enjoyable but I do not see grounds for the sort of adulation they enjoy.

Mike Nomad

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #142 on: 2 Sep 2014, 02:20 pm »
Wow, eight pages of this, and it's not about Bose 501s...

HATE Miles Davis? Nope. Hate some of what he had done as a person? Probably. Dislike some of what he had said and done as a person? Absolutely.

I know I love a lot of his music. My preference is his Columbia-stuff, from his first one for them, up to his walking (well, limping) away in '75. And I prefer his non-electric stuff in mono.

Sad to see so many comments talking about his arrogance and dislike for the audience so misplaced. The guy was clearly a racist, and had plenty of justification for a heart full of hate. You want to rip on him for something tangible, stop trying to "get" his music, and go to the trouble of reading his interviews. Here is a case where reading is indeed fundamental.

He did not turn his back on the audience out of contempt. He faced his band so that he could hear them, and his horn, better. Similar reasons why he played "into" the stage floor: better tonal quality, and introducing a bit more spacial effect.

Walking off stage was simply a variation on an _old_ behavioral of show bands with a star: The band starts up, and plays a song or two, before The Draw comes out. Some of it is showmanship: Build-up, creating a little tension & excitement in the audience, and letting people in the lobby know they need to get their cheeks in their seats...

Some of it is respect for the band. Miles put a lot of effort into getting his line-ups together. He picked them because he thought they were very good at what they did. He walked off stage to let the band do its thing, so the audience could see (well, hear) that they, the band members, where very good at what they did. Clearly, this fell on (some) deaf ears. There was a variation that he used to do. He would walk back out, come up behind a band member who was soloing, and hold up a sign with their name on it. Yes, that was a cue for the audience to applaud the band member. The band member, not Miles.

I'm wondering if Ellington and Basie are going to get pilloried in their own threads for the some of these same behaviors, or if the "hate" of them will simply get folded into this one...
« Last Edit: 4 Sep 2014, 08:56 pm by Mike Nomad »

werd

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #143 on: 2 Sep 2014, 02:46 pm »
Wow, eight pages of this, and it's not about Bose 501s...

HATE Mile Davis? Nope. Hate some of what he had done as a person? Probably. Dislike some of what he had said and done as a person? Absolutely.

I know I love a lot of his music. My preference is his Columbia-stuff, from his first one for them, up to his walking (well, limping) away in '75. And I prefer his non-electric stuff in mono.

Sad to see so many comments talking about his arrogance and dislike for the audience so misplaced. The guy was clearly a racist, and had plenty of justification for a heart full of hate. You want to rip on him for something tangible, stop trying to "get" his music, and go to the trouble of reading his interviews. Here is a case where reading is indeed fundamental.

He did not turn his back on the audience out of contempt. He faced his band so that he could hear them, and his horn, better. Similar reasons why he played "into" the stage floor: better tonal quality, and introducing a bit more spacial effect.

Walking off stage was simply a variation on an _old_ behavioral of show bands with a star: The band starts up, and plays a song or two, before The Draw comes out. Some of it is showmanship: Build-up, creating a little tension & excitement in the audience, and letting people in the lobby know they need to get their cheeks in their seats...

Some of it is respect for the band. Miles put a lot of effort into getting his line-ups together. He picked them because he thought they were very good at what they did. He walked off stage to let the band do its thing, so the audience could see (well, hear) that they, the band members, where very good at what they did. Clearly, this fell on (some) deaf ears. There was a variation that he used to do. He would walk back out, come up behind a band member who was soloing, and hold up a sign with their name on it. Yes, that was a cue for the audience to applaud the band member. The band member, not Miles.

I'm wondering if Ellington and Basie are going to get pilloried in their own threads for the some of these same behaviors, or if the "hate" of them will simply get folded into this one...

Nice points about Miles Davis.

Miles had a way of playing the lead instrument but never sounding like the lead instrument. His style was born from his "respect" of his band. He was the defacto King of fusion.

You can love him or hate him but you gotta love him.


Diamond Dog

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #144 on: 3 Sep 2014, 12:18 am »
Wow, eight pages of this, and it's not about Bose 501s...

HATE Mile Davis? Nope. Hate some of what he had done as a person? Probably. Dislike some of what he had said and done as a person? Absolutely.

I know I love a lot of his music. My preference is his Columbia-stuff, from his first one for them, up to his walking (well, limping) away in '75. And I prefer his non-electric stuff in mono.

Sad to see so many comments talking about his arrogance and dislike for the audience so misplaced. The guy was clearly a racist, and had plenty of justification for a heart full of hate. You want to rip on him for something tangible, stop trying to "get" his music, and go to the trouble of reading his interviews. Here is a case where reading is indeed fundamental.

He did not turn his back on the audience out of contempt. He faced his band so that he could hear them, and his horn, better. Similar reasons why he played "into" the stage floor: better tonal quality, and introducing a bit more spacial effect.

Walking off stage was simply a variation on an _old_ behavioral of show bands with a star: The band starts up, and plays a song or two, before The Draw comes out. Some of it is showmanship: Build-up, creating a little tension & excitement in the audience, and letting people in the lobby know they need to get their cheeks in their seats...

Some of it is respect for the band. Miles put a lot of effort into getting his line-ups together. He picked them because he thought they were very good at what they did. He walked off stage to let the band do its thing, so the audience could see (well, hear) that they, the band members, where very good at what they did. Clearly, this fell on (some) deaf ears. There was a variation that he used to do. He would walk back out, come up behind a band member who was soloing, and hold up a sign with their name on it. Yes, that was a cue for the audience to applaud the band member. The band member, not Miles.

I'm wondering if Ellington and Basie are going to get pilloried in their own threads for the some of these same behaviors, or if the "hate" of them will simply get folded into this one...

Great post!

Some here have criticized Miles Davis as a player, but he was a musician's musician - and he had no use for guys who phoned it in. His commentary about Steve Miller after sharing a bill with him at the Filmore was concise, scathing and, let's face it, pretty accurate.

D.D.

yardbird4

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #145 on: 25 Jul 2015, 04:11 am »
I keep listening to all of his records, hoping, PRAYING, that, someday I will "get it".  But I never do.  I mourn the time lost on this endeavor. If only I could connect with it the way I do with Charlie Parker or Coltrane.  But alas, every time I listen to Miles I just feel like it's so much note spinning.  I've gone from ignorance to exposure to questing to apathy to hatred.  If Miles was my only exposure to Jazz, I'd hate Jazz.  Why do people love him so much?  I don't know.  But he's (IMO) the epitome of ego jazz.  Just have the band play in the background while I "genius solo" out front.  Bleh, sux azz.

I think Geowak's advice is right on but ..... have you tried some of his more accessible things like 1.Someday My Prince Will Come, 2. Seven Steps to Heaven, 3. Working, 4. Walking. 5. Steaming, 6. Relaxing and of course 7. Kind of Blue (needs no introduction).  Most would agree that Miles was not the greatest trumpeter ever, but his ability to innovate, blaze new jazz horizons and put together stellar groups... where his playing and other members of the ensembles playing could shine puts him .... in that sense .... in the near stratosphere of men like Duke Ellington. What he lacked in technical ability (and it was not a lot) he more than made up in taste and group improvisation. While some jazz buffs may not love or like Miles .... very few hate him.  I happen to be one who appreciates his huge contribution to the art form.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #146 on: 25 Jul 2015, 05:50 am »
Again this thread.

mgsboedmisodpc2

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #147 on: 25 Jul 2015, 02:04 pm »
just listened to "Bitches Brew"
Now I have to decide vinyl CD or download.

Randy

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #148 on: 25 Jul 2015, 05:10 pm »

Kind of Blue is the most over-hyped album of all time. I love Coltrane, the 1950s Davis a lot, but that album is just plain boring.  Yep, the kings aren't wearing any clothes on that one.

Randy

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #149 on: 25 Jul 2015, 05:11 pm »
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S Clark

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #150 on: 25 Jul 2015, 05:25 pm »
Kind of Blue is the most over-hyped album of all time. I love Coltrane, the 1950s Davis a lot, but that album is just plain boring.  Yep, the kings aren't wearing any clothes on that one.
I know how you feel.  I feel the same way about Coltrane.

Randy

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #151 on: 25 Jul 2015, 05:27 pm »
I know how you feel.  I feel the same way about Coltrane.

As someone once said, "Coltrane is God."

S Clark

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #152 on: 25 Jul 2015, 05:28 pm »
I have a very knowledgeable friend that is a classical buff.. and can't listen to Beethoven.  But he doesn't say he was a no talent bum, just because he doesn't like that style. 
Bashing Miles (or Coltrane) is a pointless exercise.

Starchild

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #153 on: 26 Jul 2015, 01:20 pm »
I can't believe I read this entire thread.  There's all kind of music for all kinds of people.  Your tastes will vary as you age, travel or meet new people.  Who know, one day 10 years from now, you might "get it".  Until such time, enjoy what you enjoy and happy listening.

I liked Milles' fusion stuff when I was in college but now greatly prefer his acoustic material from the 50's and 60's.  BTW, no one mentioned the Live and the Plugged Nickel box set.

If you want to get insights as to who, what and why he was the way was.  Read his book.


http://www.amazon.com/Miles-Autobiography-Davis/dp/0671725823/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437917313&sr=1-2&keywords=miles+davis+autobiography

You'll learn a lot about the forces and influences that shaped him and his music.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #154 on: 26 Jul 2015, 01:56 pm »
After reading these Davis books someone can inform, what tape speed Kind of Blue was recorded?

Starchild

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #155 on: 26 Jul 2015, 03:39 pm »
After reading these Davis books someone can inform, what tape speed Kind of Blue was recorded?

There are numerous refernces to Kind of Blue in the index.  Unfortunately due to a recent move, I can't put my hands on my copy.  The book is quite comprehensive and exceeds 350 pages (lots of pictures also).  I just don't recall.  I was moved to read the book abouit 20 years ago when I was trying to find out everything I could about him.  Ray Charles's book is a good read also.


http://www.amazon.com/Brother-Ray-Charles-Own-Story/dp/0306814315/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437924940&sr=1-1&keywords=ray+charles+autobiography&pebp=1437924943144&perid=00G74K6R8KGJGB2VB84R

FullRangeMan

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #156 on: 27 Jul 2015, 12:43 am »
There are numerous refernces to Kind of Blue in the index.  Unfortunately due to a recent move, I can't put my hands on my copy.  The book is quite comprehensive and exceeds 350 pages (lots of pictures also).  I just don't recall.  I was moved to read the book abouit 20 years ago when I was trying to find out everything I could about him.  Ray Charles's book is a good read also.
I will save you the disgust to read this book: there is an entire book about Kind of Blue and the most important factor for analogue sound quality is tape speed.
Unfortunately this book dont inform this paramount detail.

Starchild

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #157 on: 27 Jul 2015, 01:45 am »
I will save you the disgust to read this book: there is an entire book about Kind of Blue and the most important factor for analogue sound quality is tape speed.
Unfortunately this book dont inform this paramount detail.

Disgust?  I don't get your drift.  It is a very good book that I enjoyed immensely and have shared with friends (maybe that's why I can't find it).  I read the book to find out more about the man, his background and the social elements he had to contend with.  These variables provide context to the music and insights to the man.  Maybe we're focused on different things.  Keep listening to good music.

Mudslide

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #158 on: 27 Jul 2015, 03:22 am »
Good, bad, indifferent...all are okay opinions.  But I will say this...More years ago than I care to remember, I met Davis between sets in a nightclub in San Francisco.  He was most gracious and respectful.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #159 on: 27 Jul 2015, 03:26 am »
I believe its usual with the public, but ask to Airto Moreira and Hermeto Pascoal.