an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums

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Roger A. Modjeski

an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« on: 20 Jun 2014, 02:23 pm »
Here is a discussion of matching speakers to amplifiers. The OP is attempting to understand amplifiers that have low output impedance vs amps with high output impedance. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1381284807&openflup&59&4#59

Does any here want to get into this topic? Are these guys getting anywhere? I will say this, they are making a rather simple concept rather confusing.


Charles Xavier

Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #1 on: 20 Jun 2014, 02:28 pm »
it seems that the last post was from November of 2013

Roger A. Modjeski

Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #2 on: 20 Jun 2014, 03:35 pm »
Yes its a bit old, but its an important topic and one which is not well understood and keeps coming up. I noted it to see if the group here wanted to get into a discussion about this important matter.

Devil Doc

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Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #3 on: 20 Jun 2014, 03:43 pm »
Yes.

Doc

tubegroove

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Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #4 on: 24 Jun 2014, 12:11 pm »
Yes would be keen on understanding this topic (keeping in mind that I am not an engineer or with a relevant technical background)
Thanks for offering

rpf

Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #5 on: 24 Jun 2014, 12:21 pm »
Yes would be keen on understanding this topic (keeping in mind that I am not an engineer or with a relevant technical background)
Thanks for offering

Seconded.

sunnydaze

Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jun 2014, 02:00 pm »
........I will say this, they are making a rather simple concept rather confusing.

Gee, what a surprise in the bizarro world of audio and it's strange inhabitants!      :roll:       :lol:

Roger A. Modjeski

Re: an interesting discussion at AudiogoN Forums
« Reply #7 on: 24 Jun 2014, 05:21 pm »
Seconded.

The post in Audiogon Forums gets into some things that are not recognized terms in the field of electronics. The term "back impedance" is new to me. From reading this post, and its not easy,  :? he is talking about how the speaker impedance is reflected back through the transformer. The author states the following:

"The explanations I read on some of the older Forum posts seems to go like this. One of the key functions of output transformers is to match the impedance load of the speakers to the optimal operating range of a tube amp's output tubes. So, in a crazy way that I still don't understand yet, an output tranny works two ways -- (1) it steps-down the output tubes' plate voltage and high impedance to match the speakers, and at the same time (2) it steps up the impedance loading presented to the output tubes through the interaction of the tranny's primary and secondary windings (or, back impedance). In the latter case, the impedance step-up relates to the speaker's impedance presented to the tranny's secondary windings."

Points 1 and 2 are saying the same thing. The misconception is that although output tubes may have sweet spot where distortion nulls at some particular power it is a very small spot which cannot be held by a speaker whose impedance varies. It's an easy mistake to make if one interprets the tube manual incorrectly. David Manley made this mistake in his letters to me in Stereophile concerning my RM-9. If one reads the design portion of the RCA manual and understands load lines, one will see that the output transformer primary impedance (the load the tubes sees) is not determined by the particular tube but the voltage, current and power that is expected from the circuit.

Now somethings I discovered when designing the RM-10 is that "light loading" always reduces distortion and improves damping. This has also been confirmed by my listening and reported by many of you in your listening experiments. The OP goes on:

"So, if I got this halfway correct, the inference that one should always hook his/her speakers up to the 4 ohm tap just because it generally presents the lowest output impedance to the speakers is flawed. The fallacy is that blindly using the 4 ohm tap may not result in an optimal impedance match for the output tubes. "