ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 391343 times.

rydenfan

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #420 on: 19 Nov 2008, 01:52 pm »
Quote
You guys might like to try the GZ32 in the TP if you have one laying around - didn't excel in the TP before the mod upgrade, but sounds completely different following the turbo mod. 


Phil, which GZ32 do you have? I currently own a brown based millitary Mullard version which is the CV593. I know rpf has a black base that he likes a lot.

ted_b

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 6345
  • "we're all bozos on this bus" F.T.
Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #421 on: 19 Nov 2008, 02:34 pm »
and mine is a Philips Holland. 

My Sistrum 6 tier rack shows up today so i'll probably hold off on the rectifier swap until the rack is installed and settled, and I get a feel for the baseline sound.

Note: these comments are coming from Phil, David and my comments over on the PS 36.5 tube roll thread about my wonderful discovery that my dual metal bases work and sound glorious in the PS 36.5, as does the subsequent swap to a Tung Sol 5U4GB in the TP now.  David moved Phil's comment here cuz we're now talking TP.   :)
« Last Edit: 19 Nov 2008, 05:34 pm by ted_b »

rydenfan

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #422 on: 19 Nov 2008, 04:17 pm »
I always pictued Ted would have a  NICE RACK  :rotflmao:

ted_b

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 6345
  • "we're all bozos on this bus" F.T.
Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #423 on: 19 Nov 2008, 04:23 pm »
If I gain any more lbs I will!!!    :cry:

You are one sick boy!!   


Philistine

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #424 on: 19 Nov 2008, 10:26 pm »
Quote
You guys might like to try the GZ32 in the TP if you have one laying around - didn't excel in the TP before the mod upgrade, but sounds completely different following the turbo mod. 


Phil, which GZ32 do you have? I currently own a brown based millitary Mullard version which is the CV593. I know rpf has a black base that he likes a lot.

I'm out of town David so don't have the GZ32 @ hand, but believe el presedente and I have the same tube - Phillps 1967?
It's a rectifier tube that I considered good but inferior to the mb GZ34, with the turbomod it now sounds very good.  With you guys trying different combos with the 36.5 I was curious if you'd tried it? 

rpf

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #425 on: 19 Nov 2008, 10:59 pm »
Ted, can you save me looking through 20 pages of posts and tell me what the difference in sound is between the Tung Sol 5U4G and 5U4GB is?

David, the offer to try a black base Philips/Mullard GZ32 is still open whenever you want it.

ted_b

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 6345
  • "we're all bozos on this bus" F.T.
Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #426 on: 19 Nov 2008, 11:43 pm »
Ted, can you save me looking through 20 pages of posts and tell me what the difference in sound is between the Tung Sol 5U4G and 5U4GB is?



The final "B" sound.    :D










I find that the GB has more depth and yet seems more weighty too....more "there there".  The taller bottle-style G is slightly less robust, but both provide tons of air or space between instruments.  My $.02

rpf

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #427 on: 20 Nov 2008, 12:58 am »
 :lol:  Thanks.

rydenfan

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #428 on: 20 Nov 2008, 03:09 am »

David, the offer to try a black base Philips/Mullard GZ32 is still open whenever you want it.


Thanks Rob! I am first going to let the turbo-mod settle in. I will drop you a line soon about it. Are you still using one in your 36.5?

And in the very near future my 36.5 is going to double in size  :o

rpf

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #429 on: 20 Nov 2008, 04:20 am »
No, I actually prefer the 5AR4 in the 36.5, while alternating the GZ32 with the GZ37 in the 9100.

rydenfan

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #430 on: 20 Nov 2008, 03:44 pm »
No, I actually prefer the 5AR4 in the 36.5, while alternating the GZ32 with the GZ37 in the 9100.

Come on Rob, time to join the digital age and get a Transporter  :wink:

rpf

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #431 on: 20 Nov 2008, 05:02 pm »
No, I actually prefer the 5AR4 in the 36.5, while alternating the GZ32 with the GZ37 in the 9100.

Come on Rob, time to join the digital age and get a Transporter  :wink:

:lol:  Soon. I hope. I have to find the time to figure out what hardware to use, how to set it up, and then load around 3500 CDs.    :roll:

 

thalvor

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 18
Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #432 on: 21 Nov 2008, 10:42 am »
In order to make sure I wasn't fooling myself due to the newness-excitement factor I have intentionally delayed this little review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh rectifier for a while, making room for more listening sessions to confirm my impressions.

This mini-review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate is done by comparing it mainly to a metal base gz34 phillips miniwatt. I wanted also to do a systematic comparison with the High Wycombe gz 37 as well, but found that it became too much to too keep the sound signature of three tubes in mind while rolling them. I could of course have compared the gz34 and the EML first and then done the EML and gz37, but I think a systematic comparison between the EML and the gz37 will have to wait for some other time. The comments on the rectifiers are based on the 6H30DR's as drivers. This is significant because the strengths of one rectifier over another only reflects how good the match is with a particular set of driver tubes.       

What creates the tube sound? My, maybe somewhat controversial claim is that one important ingredient is a slight smudging (in lack of a better word) of tones. Measurements does in general reveal higher levels of harmonic distortion in tube gear than in solid state. If this smudging effect is due to the specific second order harmonic distortion created by tubes or something else I don't know, but the effect is definitely there.  In some tubes this smudging affects the whole frequency specter. In other tubes this smudging seems to affect only lower frequencies. Some tubes seem to display very little of this smudging which  makes the sound of the tube closer to what one typically could expect from solid state gear. Other tubes have a much more pronounced smudging effect, creating a very sweet and warm "tubey" sound. The tube is then often less dynamic and  details are a bit muffled. So one could say that tubes can be placed on a a scale from the very dry, ss-like, to the sweet end with tubes producing a strong "tubey" sound. The EML tube is leaning more to the neutral end of the scale than the mb gz34, but it does this without losing the tube "magic".

So why do I prefer to listen to tube gear when solid state can reproduce music with less distortion than my tube gear? What is the tube "magic"? To me the tubesound is more natural. It produces a sense of acoustic space that I have yet to hear from SS. It produces a more full-bodied musical presentation and it produces less listening fatigue than SS.

Because tube characteristics vary to a large degree, combining tubes is not straight forward. As several here has commented doubling up of a good driver tube in e.g both preamp and transporter may not be a immediate success. For example both the RCA cleartops and the 6H30DR's leans toward the sweet end of the scale, though with much bottom-end energy. Doubling up of them in both preamp and transporter may result in a sound that floats out and loses its focus, especially in the bottom end where these tubes individually are strong. The sound becomes "overcooked".

The same applies for combining rectifiers with drivers as well. In combination with the 6H30DR's I felt that the sound of the mb gz34 on certain recordings became "overcooked". This has not been a problem with the EML rectifier. It is a tube with better transparency in general than both the mb gz34 and HW gz37. This may be partly because it doesn't have the mid-bass hump of the mb gz34 (or the slightly recessed upper-bass of the gz37), but in addition to this it sounds to be in more control. The definition is in general a little better. The details  comes through better. While it is maybe not quite as punchy as the gz34, it still a a very dynamic tube. But because the dynamics is not especially pronounced in any one frequency area it comes across as more relaxed than the gz34.

As for sound-staging it is in this department the EML most clearly outperforms the mb gz34. The huge EML sports a XXL soundstage with better height, width and depth than the mb gz34. Partly this may be due to its transparency revealing more spatial cues, but I don't think this is the whole explanation to the magnificent soundstage of this tube.   
 
Congratulations to those of you thay already have Dan's new mod in place in the transporter! I see that the mod has led to new rounds of tube-rolling for some of you. Maybe the EML with it's control and clarity is what you are looking for. At least in my rig, and in combination with the 6H30DR's the EML produces the best sound thus far.

For me the EML has turned out to be a very good investment and is now the permanent stable mate with the 6H30DR's. Other driver tubes may, however, demand something else from their stable mate.
« Last Edit: 21 Nov 2008, 03:04 pm by thalvor »

ted_b

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 6345
  • "we're all bozos on this bus" F.T.
Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #433 on: 21 Nov 2008, 03:38 pm »
Thomas,
What a great review, and review style!  I love it.  In fact, you have crystalized the genre-definitions that I've been mulling in my head.  It almost seems like we could take, say, the five or six characteristics (soundstaging, bass, mid, treble, dynamics, etc.?) and have a scale, either side of neutral, that explains their footprint in each.  Then the synergy of combining becomes a little more mathematic or visual.

Do you have the turbo-mod?  If not, it will be interesting what that does to the synergy and the EL placement.

What is the tube complement down stream, if any (preamp, power amp)?  Thx

Ted
« Last Edit: 21 Nov 2008, 05:24 pm by ted_b »

jwes

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #434 on: 21 Nov 2008, 03:43 pm »
Thomas,

I have to echo Ted - really well done review.  Mine is off to the magical land of Amboy, WA for the turbo/bybee mods.  I need to let that settle and see how it goes, but then may certainly play with this!  How much is that - in the $200 range?

rydenfan

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #435 on: 21 Nov 2008, 05:02 pm »
Thor, great review! Very interesting  :thumb:

However, I do have to say that I differ from you on your views of the rca cleartop 6CG7's and the 6H30 DR's sounding very similar. I find the DR's to be much more full bodied sounding with a nice increase in bass. I find the cleartop 6CG7's to not impart much sonic signature and be very detailed and transparent. Of course YMMV.

Joey54

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #436 on: 21 Nov 2008, 05:06 pm »
In order to make sure I wasn't fooling myself due to the newness-excitement factor I have intentionally delayed this little review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh rectifier for a while, making room for more listening sessions to confirm my impressions.

This mini-review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate is done by comparing it mainly to a metal base gz34 phillips miniwatt. I wanted also to do a systematic comparison with the High Wycombe gz 37 as well, but found that it became too much to too keep the sound signature of three tubes in mind while rolling them. I could of course have compared the gz34 and the EML first and then done the EML and gz37, but I think a systematic comparison between the EML and the gz37 will have to wait for some other time. The comments on the rectifiers are based on the 6H30DR's as drivers. This is significant because the strengths of one rectifier over another only reflects how good the match is with a particular set of driver tubes.       

What creates the tube sound? My, maybe somewhat controversial claim is that one important ingredient is a slight smudging (in lack of a better word) of tones. Measurements does in general reveal higher levels of harmonic distortion in tube gear than in solid state. If this smudging effect is due to the specific second order harmonic distortion created by tubes or something else I don't know, but the effect is definitely there.  In some tubes this smudging affects the whole frequency specter. In other tubes this smudging seems to affect only lower frequencies. Some tubes seem to display very little of this smudging which  makes the sound of the tube closer to what one typically could expect from solid state gear. Other tubes have a much more pronounced smudging effect, creating a very sweet and warm "tubey" sound. The tube is then often less dynamic and  details are a bit muffled. So one could say that tubes can be placed on a a scale from the very dry, ss-like, to the sweet end with tubes producing a strong "tubey" sound. The EML tube is leaning more to the neutral end of the scale than the mb gz34, but it does this without losing the tube "magic".

So why do I prefer to listen to tube gear when solid state can reproduce music with less distortion than my tube gear? What is the tube "magic"? To me the tubesound is more natural. It produces a sense of acoustic space that I have yet to hear from SS. It produces a more full-bodied musical presentation and it produces less listening fatigue than SS.

Because tube characteristics vary to a large degree, combining tubes is not straight forward. As several here has commented doubling up of a good driver tube in e.g both preamp and transporter may not be a immediate success. For example both the RCA cleartops and the 6H30DR's leans toward the sweet end of the scale, though with much bottom-end energy. Doubling up of them in both preamp and transporter may result in a sound that floats out and loses its focus, especially in the bottom end where these tubes individually are strong. The sound becomes "overcooked".

The same applies for combining rectifiers with drivers as well. In combination with the 6H30DR's I felt that the sound of the mb gz34 on certain recordings became "overcooked". This has not been a problem with the EML rectifier. It is a tube with better transparency in general than both the mb gz34 and HW gz37. This may be partly because it doesn't have the mid-bass hump of the mb gz34 (or the slightly recessed upper-bass of the gz37), but in addition to this it sounds to be in more control. The definition is in general a little better. The details  comes through better. While it is maybe not quite as punchy as the gz34, it still a a very dynamic tube. But because the dynamics is not especially pronounced in any one frequency area it comes across as more relaxed than the gz34.

As for sound-staging it is in this department the EML most clearly outperforms the mb gz34. The huge EML sports a XXL soundstage with better height, width and depth than the mb gz34. Partly this may be due to its transparency revealing more spatial cues, but I don't think this is the whole explanation to the magnificent soundstage of this tube.   
 
Congratulations to those of you thay already have Dan's new mod in place in the transporter! I see that the mod has led to new rounds of tube-rolling for some of you. Maybe the EML with it's control and clarity is what you are looking for. At least in my rig, and in combination with the 6H30DR's the EML produces the best sound thus far.

For me the EML has turned out to be a very good investment and is now the permanent stable mate with the 6H30DR's. Other driver tubes may, however, demand something else from their stable mate.

Great review! Just to clarify, have you had the turbomod upgrade already? I was going to have the mod done but my system sounds so good right now that I am almost afraid to change anything. I have settled on a fairly inexpensive tube set and I really don't want to mess with a good thing.

Thanks!

modwright

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #437 on: 21 Nov 2008, 05:26 pm »
Just my $0.02 here.  The mod will not likely change your tube choice.  It may, but I expect that the improvements in the mod will only significantly heighten the enjoyment that you are currently enjoying.

The effects of the mod are clear:

GREATLY improved dual-discrete voltage regulation improves separation, soundstage and improves midrange, low level detail and overall information retrieval.  The Bybee upgrade makes for a blacker background and lower noise floor which allows even more inner detail through as well as improves decay and the subtle aural cues that make you feel like you are at the live event.

Just wanted to share what I feel the benefits of this upgrade are.

Great review and I am now tempted to order this new rectifier also.

Sincerely,

Dan W.

rydenfan

Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #438 on: 21 Nov 2008, 05:30 pm »
Dan, just convince Ted to order two for his PS and then we can try them  :lol:

zybar

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 12071
  • Dutch and Dutch 8C's…yes they are that good!
Re: ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!
« Reply #439 on: 21 Nov 2008, 06:40 pm »
Just my $0.02 here.  The mod will not likely change your tube choice.  It may, but I expect that the improvements in the mod will only significantly heighten the enjoyment that you are currently enjoying.

The effects of the mod are clear:

GREATLY improved dual-discrete voltage regulation improves separation, soundstage and improves midrange, low level detail and overall information retrieval.  The Bybee upgrade makes for a blacker background and lower noise floor which allows even more inner detail through as well as improves decay and the subtle aural cues that make you feel like you are at the live event.

Just wanted to share what I feel the benefits of this upgrade are.

Great review and I am now tempted to order this new rectifier also.

Sincerely,

Dan W.

Thanks for that input Dan.

I look forward to having my unit upgraded in early December and it was great talking with you the other day.

George