[mountaineagle]

Lazydays et al,

Talking of belt drive ...I have been offered the opportunity to buy a Townshend Rock V with a cheap new Rega RB301 demo used only.

Any thoughts on that?

Greg

[Curly Woods]

greg, i really think you need to rethink your priorities.  you have ~$400 retail speakers, and are wanting to spend >$2500 on a turntable?  i suggest reversing the prices there - get some ~$2500 (preferably used) speakers, and get a $400 turntable.

doug s.

I believe that you spend the money on the source first!  If you can not retrieve the subtleness of a micro groove, the best speakers will never make the music better.  I have had this demonstrated and shown myself over the years.  Give me the very best source component to start a system and I will fill in the rest with good, but less expensive items.  This way i can also hear the improvements in the system as I choose new and hopefully better pieces to flesh out the chain.

Many of the subtle things that you hear now will become things that are painfully obvious when they are taken away

[woodsyi]

Lazydays et al,

Talking of belt drive ...I have been offered the opportunity to buy a Townshend Rock V with a cheap new Rega RB301 demo used only.

Any thoughts on that?

Greg

Good if the price is right. 

[mountaineagle]

Woodsyi....three thousand three hundred pounds. Seems to be an emotive subject this Rock V some think it is the best turntable in the world ...others simply say cheap Rega innards...

[woodsyi]

Woodsyi....three thousand three hundred pounds. Seems to be an emotive subject this Rock V some think it is the best turntable in the world ...others simply say cheap Rega innards...

 

That seems too high to be a "killer" deal, imho.  I would look below 50% list price as a rule of thumb.

[TheChairGuy]

Greg,

I had a Mk. II Townshend Rock in 1987-88 and enjoyed it immensely!  Despite some feedback issues for that iteration, it sounded muscular and terrific.

I can only imagine the newest version is that much better.  The Rega AC motor and regulation may be the best compromise on the planet for sane money for speed regulation.  It's not unlike Teres Audio and what they came up with for their direct and rim drives.

As Father Theresa, aka woodsyi mentions, if it's a good price you might have your winning vinyl tandem there in the Rock

EDIT: oye, I missed the 3300 quid cost.  I know they sell for quite a pretty penny in the UK new, but that price for used seems excessive.  Your call, of course.

John

[mountaineagle]

John,

I have to listen to the Classic first...and have arranged to demo a SL1210 at home...

I dont think the seller will go down to half price on the Rock and I am a little put off by the trough ( I know I shouldnt ) and I have never heard one and would not buy without doing so ...so it may pass me by. Townshend have no dealers hardly in the UK.

Greg 

[lazydays]

John,

What cartridge, to date, do you best think suits the VPI Classic?

Greg

I wouldn't know, Greg.  Thus far two Grado's have sounded great on it (chosen as I really dig the brand and that VPI sells the brand....so I suspect the table was designed with them on it at one time or another)

VPI also sells Dynavector....but, having never heard a Dynavector here (which I hope to change one day), I cannot comment on that one 

John

I removed the denon D103 I was using and replaced it with a Grado. The Denon will never be on that table again. Now I'm going to replace that Grado with a Reference.
gary

[lazydays]

  Do any of you guys think that you can design and build a better TT than Harry Weisfield. For all those (me included)
that have fiddled with TT's, modifying them, changing this and changing that, we could have purchased a much higher end TT with the money we spent. I know for tweekers it the fun involved, but, the OP doesn't strike me as guy that wants to go through all that. He is getting back into vinyl and wants to buy a TT he can have confidence that will give him solid performance. I am not even saying the TT has to be a VPI Classic just something better than a SL-1200 that he can live with (no doubts) no muss, no fuss

honestly; I like Harry's tables a lot, but would not trade my final tool for anything in his lineup except for the HRX. After a point the improvments get smaller and smaller.
The Fianal Tool has better electronics and motor than the VPI (any), but other things on the VPI I like better. Neither is perfect. The above plus the fact that the table itself is only one piece to the puzzel that must be taken into proper context. You have to deal with the phono stage, cables, as well as the cartridge. I went thru several isolation devices before I was happy, and who knows how many phono stages. Now I find myself thinking it's time to replace the preamp again and maybe the cartridge to boot. Just never seems to stop!
gary

[lazydays]

Lazydays et al,

Talking of belt drive ...I have been offered the opportunity to buy a Townshend Rock V with a cheap new Rega RB301 demo used only.

Any thoughts on that?

Greg

I have never heard one to be truthfull. Just don't see them very much around here.
But surely somebody here has one. What can you get a Linn for over there? Always liked the way bass sounds thru one of those tables
gary

[doug s.]

greg, i really think you need to rethink your priorities.  you have ~$400 retail speakers, and are wanting to spend >$2500 on a turntable?  i suggest reversing the prices there - get some ~$2500 (preferably used) speakers, and get a $400 turntable.

doug s.

I believe that you spend the money on the source first!  If you can not retrieve the subtleness of a micro groove, the best speakers will never make the music better.  I have had this demonstrated and shown myself over the years.  Give me the very best source component to start a system and I will fill in the rest with good, but less expensive items.  This way i can also hear the improvements in the system as I choose new and hopefully better pieces to flesh out the chain.

Many of the subtle things that you hear now will become things that are painfully obvious when they are taken away

get back to me after you have listened to a wintage used empire 208 w/a decent used aftermarket arm, like an o-l rega rb250...   

sure, when you get your $2500 deck, your $2500 speakers may sound better, but i would much rather be listening to the $2500 speakers w/the empire than using a $2500 deck w/$400 speakers until i can afford to upgrade ...  and, of course, i listen to fm and cd as well - a $2500 turntable won't help the sound of those at all.   

ymmv,

doug s.

[mountaineagle]

Gary ( Lazydays )

A new Linn Sondek LP12 SE with Keel and the top arm plus the new built in Urika sound stage and new Radikal   (which is the Linn equivalent of the VPI SDS but at twice the price ) will set you back fifteen thousand pounds.

You can get an entry level Sondek with a Project arm for just under two thousand pounds.

I read an article recently in Hifi+ which pointed out that the price of hifi is wholly disproportionate to any rise in inflation since the 70s and Linn is clearly an example in point.

The Technics SL1210 may not be the last thing in hifi excellence but at least in terms of quality for bucks you are miles ahead of the rest.   

[Curly Woods]

greg, i really think you need to rethink your priorities.  you have ~$400 retail speakers, and are wanting to spend >$2500 on a turntable?  i suggest reversing the prices there - get some ~$2500 (preferably used) speakers, and get a $400 turntable.

doug s.

I believe that you spend the money on the source first!  If you can not retrieve the subtleness of a micro groove, the best speakers will never make the music better.  I have had this demonstrated and shown myself over the years.  Give me the very best source component to start a system and I will fill in the rest with good, but less expensive items.  This way i can also hear the improvements in the system as I choose new and hopefully better pieces to flesh out the chain.

Many of the subtle things that you hear now will become things that are painfully obvious when they are taken away

get back to me after you have listened to a wintage used empire 208 w/a decent used aftermarket arm, like an o-l rega rb250...   

sure, when you get your $2500 deck, your $2500 speakers may sound better, but i would much rather be listening to the $2500 speakers w/the empire than using a $2500 deck w/$400 speakers until i can afford to upgrade ...  and, of course, i listen to fm and cd as well - a $2500 turntable won't help the sound of those at all.   

ymmv,

doug s.

  How long have you been listening seriously?  You are trying to tell me that they hear more with an expensive pair of speakers and a cheap frontend than vice versa?  Good luck with that one my friend

[doug s.]

How long have you been listening seriously?  You are trying to tell me that they hear more with an expensive pair of speakers and a cheap frontend than vice versa?  Good luck with that one my friend

i have been an avid music lover since i got my first transistor radio, back in 1962.  i got sucked in to the "hi-end" part of the audio listening spectrum twenty five years ago.  (not sure it matters, tho)   

as i said before, compare a well set up wintage empire w/decent arm to any $2500 deck and get back to me...   

of course, i know there are excellent speakers that can be found for $400, but i will stick w/a used empire and the used $2500 speakers of my choice, over any used $2500 deck and any used $400 speaker combo you care to name.  of course, as i also said before, my cdp and tuna will sound better, too... 

again - ymmv,

doug s.

[doug s.]

oh, one other thing, my present analog front end isn't too shabby - oracle delphi upgraded to mkv specs, with o-l dc motor kit, fed by hewlett packard lab grade power supply.  tonearm is o-l silver taper.  so, i know a decent analog front-end when i hear one.  and, i have also been fortunate enough to hear analog front ends even "higher-end" than what i own.

doug s.

[mountaineagle]

Doug,

I wouldn't pretend to know anything but isn't the philosophy that you cant get out of the end anything better than you put in at the front?

I deliberately put a ? because I have not heard enough audio to have an opinion on the subject and value yours.

I have heard a point of view that you can just get a SL1210 because the phono stage is more important than anything else.

I wish I knew all the answers as if I did ...within reason I would just go out and buy it.

[Curly Woods]

oh, one other thing, my present analog front end isn't too shabby - oracle delphi upgraded to mkv specs, with o-l dc motor kit, fed by hewlett packard lab grade power supply.  tonearm is o-l silver taper.  so, i know a decent analog front-end when i hear one.  and, i have also been fortunate enough to hear analog front ends even "higher-end" than what i own.

doug s.

Doug,

  I must apologize.  I was more than a little snippy with my last reply.  I have never heard an Empire Table with a decent arm before.  I simply can not believe that an unsuspended table will have enough isolation to better a high quality suspended table. like your Oracle.   I have been involved in high-end audio since the early 80's and hear so much BS that I often snap.  Again I extend a sincere apology for my words.

All the best,

Michael Mastin

[Wayner]

Well, Doug S. is right. You should hear my cheap turntables (Empire, Technics, VPI) on my Martin Logans. It is frickin' awesome. The tables also sound great on my AVA equipment in my studio. The real fact is that a good quality table with a modest priced cartridge can get you 99% there. The extra money on high end tables will not make you grin from ear to ear when you consider the cost difference, espcially when you go down the high end MC/exotic phono preamp path. This my friends is what John Thechairguy calls audiofooldom.

However, it's your money and do as you see fit. I would much rather have the money spent on good vinyl.

Wayner  aa

[Curly Woods]

Well, Doug S. is right. You should hear my cheap turntables (Empire, Technics, VPI) on my Martin Logans. It is frickin' awesome. The tables also sound great on my AVA equipment in my studio. The real fact is that a good quality table with a modest priced cartridge can get you 99% there. The extra money on high end tables will not make you grin from ear to ear when you consider the cost difference, espcially when you go down the high end MC/exotic phono preamp path. This my friends is what John Thechairguy calls audiofooldom.

However, it's your money and do as you see fit. I would much rather have the money spent on good vinyl.

Wayner  aa

If you feel that way that is your opinion Wayne.  I do not abide by it, but I trust my own ears before I spend any money on anything audio wise.

[Wayner]

Everything posted in the AC is an opinion! I don't need to be reminded of it. This particular blog is not about you. It's about the author. Like almost all blogs, someone is looking for help or an opinion. Not some stop sign that says "don't go there". In fact I would say that many here at AC share my opinion on the topic. You have the right to state your side, but that is where it should end. Still like your input, tho.

Wayner