[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

What have you done to optimize the sound?

 I have no idea about your expectations, but they seem overly optimistic, to say the least. It's not like you went out and bought a VPI Classic, a $1K cart, another $1K phono stage, and a 16.5 RCM, is it?   

 The reality is, you don't have to spend that kind of money to get decent sound you will enjoy, but it involves lots of hands-on effort and there's a big learning curve.  You already have decent digital, and your system is optimised for that. Please consider what you have and if you're willing to make the investment in time, money, and effort, to do vinyl right.neo     

Yes, you have said it. Time & patience is the name of the LP game, my friends! It does
NOT need a fortune to make LPs sound right, as I've proven it.

c-J

[wushuliu]

Oh boy here is the problem DJpre2 phono preamp,That got to be the worst pre amp money can buy,junk that and spend $300 on Vista phono stage and done with it.




lapsan

Are you speaking from personal experience?

[WireNut]

So may I suggest you check out what's wrong with yr LP system before you condemn it.

 I'll never condemn it. It will only get better from here on.

My plan is to buy the Vista Audio Preamp and build the Hagerman Cornet2 phono pre in the future.
Not sure on a cart yet but I'm considering the Audio Technica AT-150MLX.

[MaxCast]

I'll never condemn it. It will only get better from here on.

That-a-boy!

[wushuliu]

And for cleaning records, the wood glue treatment seems a strong option. There is a several years long thread at AK, but here is the summary post:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2992798&postcount=507

[MaxCast]

And for cleaning records, the wood glue treatment seems a strong option. There is a several years long thread at AK, but here is the summary post:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2992798&postcount=507

Are you still using the old cart??  If so, let us know how it works 

[WireNut]

Are you still using the old cart??  If so, let us know how it works 

Unfortunately yes for now. I think I'll take a hammer to it when my Audio Technica AT-150MLX arrives. Probably even sooner. 

[MaxCast]

Unfortunately yes for now. I think I'll take a hammer to it when my Audio Technica AT-150MLX arrives. Probably even sooner. 

I know when I picked up my used table I lived with mediocre sound because of a (apparently) bad needle.
Hopefully the new cart will be an encouraging jump in performance.

[neobop]

Wire Nut
Good to see you're hanging tough. I'm just trying to put things in perspective.

It's been my experience that a balanced approach to upgrading is the road to happiness.  If you get a highly detailed, unforgiving cart and put it on a mediocre arm/table, then put the signal through a mediocre phono stage, it might sound worse. It could sound much worse.  We're here to help, and I think you would benefit from asking first.  If you've already ordered the cart, we'll work with you, but the price of that cart could buy you a phono stage. Maybe you could return it for credit or a refund. Don't take a hammer to the old cart. Did you ever replace the needle? Speaking of which, do you clean the needle?

Order of importance: #1 - Turntable.  Did you read Cheap Jack's post about using a budget cart on an old Thorens?  You need a stable platform that spins at the correct speed (w/o 3 mats). Spinning the record is the #1 most important.
You mentioned 2 tables, what's up with that?

The arm is #2, but in this case it's part of the table. Bringing up the rear is the cart, assuming it has a good needle and it's appropriate for the record player.  The phono stage, although not part of the record player is super important, right up there next to the table. Imagine putting your digital signal through a crap DA converter or a preamp with bad tubes.

CLEAN RECORDS - you'll never get great sound until you clean those old records. A brush only gets the surface dust.  You have to clean all the way down in the groove. You can get a SpinClean for $79 and use a rubber drainboard and a microfiber towel. You'll need sleeves like Mobil Fidelity and probably more record cleaning fluid.  What kind of stylus cleaner do you have?  Same thing - one of those little soft brushes will only get the dust. Dirt gets baked on the needle and you have to clean it. 

Those stickies up top discuss all this stuff. This thread is a good opportunity to ask questions and learn. It's hard for us to know what to tell you.  Many of us have been playing records for so long we don't think much about the basics.  As far as I can tell, you need a good table, a better phono stage, and a record cleaner for that new cart.
neo

[Rclark]

 This is why vinyl will never really take off again as a mainstay. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complicated. You shouldn't need an engineering degree to work your device.

[neobop]

This is why vinyl will never really take off again as a mainstay. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complicated. You shouldn't need an engineering degree to work your device.

Mainstay of what, perfect sound forever? Engineering degree not required. Like driving a car, you have to learn how, not be a mechanic.

You're way off topic Sir, why don't you take it to another circle?
neo

[Toaster]

Depends what you're used to. Coming at it fresh from digital is going to be a bit of a culture shock, but if like me you've run record players continuously for decades it all seems perfectly natural. Some of the more vinyl-savvy younger folks I know seem to get the idea pretty quick and accept or even enjoy the quirks too!

Not just an exercise in nostalgia either. Given a good record, the Trans-fi deck (I own one too) sounds better to me than my Oppo '95- and I really like the Oppo! The turntable does cost quite a bit more in fairness- but that's engineering for you!

[roscoeiii]

This is why vinyl will never really take off again as a mainstay. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complicated. You shouldn't need an engineering degree to work your device.

Not particularly concerned whether it takes off as a mainstay or not. It is vital enough that great vinyl continues to be released and reissued. And great turntables, carts, tonearms continue to be made.

Like any purchase, a matter of personal preference. As an audiofool, I am sold on the sonic characteristics of vinyl. Not only the difference in sound that an analog rig provides, but also the oten superior masterings of vinyl releases. See for example the Dynamic Range Database's values for the Fleet Foxes' vinyl vs. digital versions:

http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=fleet+foxes&search_album=

So if I was limited to digital only, I'd do all I could to get ahold of needledrops of my favorite albums.

[vortrex]

This is why vinyl will never really take off again as a mainstay. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complicated. You shouldn't need an engineering degree to work your device.

you mean this is why you shouldn't spend $100 on your entire vinyl rig and expect it to sound even remotely good.

[SteveFord]

The old adage "you get what you pay" for springs to mind.
If Wire Nut comes into some pennies I've offered to take him on a shopping spree.
I should be able to come up with something that will make his digital stuff sound a bit second rate.
It will cost a bit more than $100, though.

[*Scotty*]

Operating a turntable is just not that difficult. When vinyl was the mainstay, everyone using it did not have an engineering degree. What they did have was a degree of brick and mortar support that no longer exists in this current age of internet commerce.
 Turntables were frequently shipped from the factory with a properly mounted phono cartridge, later the P mount bodied cartridges were shipped on turntables from the factory thus engineering out cartridge misalignments from that source.
  If the turntable customer opted for a higher line table and a better cartridge, they purchased them from the local dealer who took the time to mount the cartridge properly before it left the store. If some problem was encountered after the sale they had support from the dealer to resolve the problem.
Scotty
 

[SET Man]

This is why vinyl will never really take off again as a mainstay. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complicated. You shouldn't need an engineering degree to work your device.

Hey!

    Well, you are right about vinyl will never be the dominant music format again. But! It is more popular now since it was declared dead a decade or two ago.

    And of course you don't need engineering degree to enjoy it. Well, it works for our parents and grandparents for many years.

   I have to say for me using this format require 3 important virtues...

1. Patience- Setting up turntable and cart up take a patience of a saint to get it right. This quality seems to be lacking among many people these days. 

2. Gentleness- You need to be gentle handling LPs and cart. You can't just leave your LPs around out of of it sleeve or worst on the floor like CD. Actually I don't do that to CD neither.

3. Cleanliness- Keeping your TT, sylus and LPs clean will make them last longer, quieter and this will reward you with more enjoyment of this old format.

    Well, these 3 virtues seem to work fine for me with my vinyl playback And Oh! Did I mention that these work for other aspect of life too. 

Take care,
Buddy

   

[Rclark]

Price isn't what I'm talking about. Although in this day and age, price isn't as solid a determiner of performance as it once was. A lot of things are also overpriced..

It's the extreme fiddlyness. Make sure this and make sure that. Set this and set that and make sure you use this with this. People hear all the time "oh vinyl is the way to go", but if you can't make it sound incredible out of the box, better than an Ipod, it will never re-take off. It will just be another quick passing fad.

For the record- ha, for myself, I'm still interested in getting back into it. I want to try the U-turn Orbit.

[roscoeiii]

It's the extreme fiddlyness. Make sure this and make sure that. Set this and set that and make sure you use this with this. People hear all the time "oh vinyl is the way to go", but if you can't make it sound incredible out of the box, better than an Ipod, it will never re-take off. It will just be another quick passing fad.

Not for everyone? Yes, no doubt. But I would stop well short of calling it a passing fad. Vinyl is being embraced by people of all ages right now. And I see no signs that we need to worry about the lack of turntables, carts, arms or LPs being produced.

Vinyl is healthy, and growing in year-to-year sales by a surprising degree.

OK, back to the thread's actual topic.

[vortrex]

but it is about price.  if it were possible to spend $100 total and have a great sounding vinyl system everyone would have one.  vinyl costs more than digital, so if you can't make the investment, I wouldn't get into it.  that's ridiculous about it being hard to setup.  one of the best sounding tables out there can be setup perfect in 15 min with no special tools.  like anything, if you scrap together a bunch of old junk you are going to spend a lot of time trying to get it all work properly, which probably will never happen.