[WireNut]

  To get back into vinyl after 25 years I picked up a Technics TT with a Shure M95HE cartridge which could  be the original cartridge as old as 20-30 years, I don't know. Also, to get me up and running I bought a DJpre2 phono preamp for $50.00 bucks. I hooked everything up to my sonic frontiers,audio research system and as soon as the stylus hit the album the sound was awful. Forward sounding, lacking in dynamics, low bass output, harsh at times, dull and uninviting.

 I was planning on buying the Audio Technica 440MLa cartridge and a Vista or Jolida phono preamp but now I’m Leary of spending money on it only to be disappointed again. Have I screwed myself with my first impressions of vinyl being with an old cartridge and cheap phono preamp?   I’m not sure what to do at this point but I’m not willing to give up yet.
 
Steve

[jimdgoulding]

Steve, hi.  You DO know how to align a cartridge in a headshell, right?  Set tracking force?  Choose proper overhang?  Set SRA?  From your report, sounds like things are amiss.  Could something be broke, also?

[WireNut]

Steve, hi.  You DO know how to align a cartridge in a headshell, right?  Set tracking force?  Choose proper overhang?  Set SRA?  From your report, sounds like things are amiss.  Could something be broke, also?

Yes, Tracking is set to 1.25 grams (specs from vinyl engine), stylus is 2.050 from tip to rubber washer, anti-skate is at 1.25, VTA looks ok I can't change it on this TT, Cartridge is straight and horizontal. First impressions where a real let down. I can't see the stylus with my 5x Loupe. I probably need something like 200x. I've listened for the past 2 days, some albums sound ok most sound like crap. Most of my albums are 20-30 years old and in good to excellent condition.

[jimdgoulding]

Some of the guys should be tuning in here in a short while.  There some smart people here.  I'm wondering if the cart is defective.  Beyond that or the tracking angle, I don't know what to think. 

[roscoeiii]

Vinyl requires some tinkering, and I would guess that you may not have things well dialed in. Work your way down the set-up list, making sure that all of the things mentioned above are dialed in.

Both the cart and the pre would also be causes of concern. On the preamp side, maybe grab a Musical Fidelity V-LPS from a retailed like Music Direct or Audio Advisor that has a solid return policy. And do you have any idea of the wear on the cart? No return on carts (unless maybe Amazon does cart returns?), but you could get something like the Shure M97xE or Audio Technica AT95E for well under $100. Nice safe, reliable budget options.

Hopefully some turntable gurus can step in and offer additional advice.

[WireNut]

Vinyl requires some tinkering, and I would guess that you may not have things well dialed in. Work your way down the set-up list, making sure that all of the things mentioned above are dialed in. Both the cart and the pre would also be causes of concern. On the preamp side, maybe grab a Musical Fidelity V-LPS from a retailed like Music Direct or Audio Advisor that has a solid return policy. And do you have any idea of the wear on the cart? No return on carts (unless maybe Amazon does cart returns?), but you could get something like the Shure M97xE or Audio Technica AT95E for well under $100. Nice safe, reliable budget options. Hopefully some turntable gurus can step in and offer additional advice.

I bought the TT with the Shure cart from craigslist for $50.
I have know idea how many hours could be on the stylus and cartridge. Both may be 25 years old.

I like your ideas. I be-leave that I do have the cart and arm setup correctly. I was very careful.

[putz]

You need to put a new cart on the table. Much more likely the cart has not survived 20 years of use. A beat up cart will not sound any good no matter how well you've set it up.

You live in Cincinnati? Might be an audio store in the area you could bring the table into and have it looked at. They probably sell reasonably priced carts and could let you know if the table is worth keeping or not with a new cart installed.

Once you determine the cart and table are keepers, then consider a better phono preamp. The modded Cambridge 640P on sale here for Gary Dodd fundraiser would be an excellent upgrade.

With only $50 invested in a 20 year old Craigslist rig, please set your expectations accordingly.

[*Scotty*]

You might try buying a much larger wallwart power supply something rated at 1amp or above might sound a lot better than the power adapter you have now.
  Here is a link to an adapter rated at 3amps at 12VDC, this is a non-switchmode power suppy adapter to avoid noise.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Stancor/STA-6612B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtpkqKkT5w3ujq8I4h3HbaNUWubMd7vaO8%3d
Unfortunately the bigger wallwart costs more than your phono stage did.

For what its worth my phono stage has a 225 watt toroid transformer to supply the 17volts AC that the phono stage wants to see before its turned into DC in the phono stage's rectfiers.
The phono stage is a small box with a big external AC transformer.

And the box the AC transformer is in below. If some is good, too much must just right.

Overkill is under rated.
Scotty

[Elizabeth]

First, point blank you set yourself up to fail:100% no question about it IMO.
That cart: you have absolutely NO IDEA how worn out it is. NONE. It was an average cheap cart 20-30 years ago.
It is CRAP at this point.
First buy a decent new Shure 97ME $89 here:
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7514-shure-m97xe-phono-cartridge.aspx
Or this Ortofon for $69
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7392-ortofon-super-om10-mm-phono-cartridge.aspx
Stick it on the TT  super careful adustment forget it. ust stick it on, us a free printout alignment paper gauge. No problem.

Then the super cheap crap phono can be tossed in the trash. Find some low priced one worth using with your good equipment, and not only suitable for a Yorx. OK? Find some used one you can resell for what you paid.. But at least make it good enough! (so spending $800 used like for a Audio Research PH-3 is it. or a PH-3SE for $1100.
So THEN you might find the stuff listenable.
At LEAST start with the cart and see if it works out better... Theen you can also buy a new phono box from a dealer with a return policy? or an internet dealer like Audio Advisor with a 30 day return. Try some phono box AFTER you have done the replacement cart..
This is my opinion. Sorry to be so harsh.

[*Scotty*]

Before we start making equipment recommendations, it would be nice if we had some idea of what kind of budget he has to fund this foray into vinyl land.
Scotty

[wushuliu]

Kind of agree w/ Elizabeth but I've read good things about the Art 2 DJ Phono pre. It's not going to win any awards but I doubt it's the culprit. It's a rule of thumb to never, ever trust a used cart that the previous owner cannot accurately account for. That cart should be tossed or it's stylus replaced before touching another record.

Also the table should be inspected for any necessary maintenance. If the previous owner didn't have much to say about it's history and condition then assume it needs some going over.

It would also help to know which Technics it is.

[WireNut]

First, point blank you set yourself up to fail:100% no question about it IMO.
That cart: you have absolutely NO IDEA how worn out it is. NONE. It was an average cheap cart 20-30 years ago.
It is CRAP at this point. First buy a decent new Shure 97ME $89 here:
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7514-shure-m97xe-phono-cartridge.aspx
Or this Ortofon for $69
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7392-ortofon-super-om10-mm-phono-cartridge.aspx
Stick it on the TT  super careful adustment forget it. ust stick it on, us a free printout alignment paper gauge. No problem.
Then the super cheap crap phono can be tossed in the trash. Find some low priced one worth using with your good equipment, and not only suitable for a Yorx. OK? Find some used one you can resell for what you paid.. But at least make it good enough! (so spending $800 used like for a Audio Research PH-3 is it. or a PH-3SE for $1100.
So THEN you might find the stuff listenable.
At LEAST start with the cart and see if it works out better... Theen you can also buy a new phono box from a dealer with a return policy? or an internet dealer like Audio Advisor with a 30 day return. Try some phono box AFTER you have done the replacement cart..
This is my opinion. Sorry to be so harsh.

Elizabeth and everyone here is correct. I should have known better. I should have trashed that cart from day one. My enthusiasm and expectations to get back into vinyl after 25 years was so high that I was doomed to fail just as Elizabeth stated. First I’m going to take your advice and get a new cartridge. After I get that dialed in, then I’ll look for a better phono pre.
  I have learned a lot in the last month after buying the TT on craigslist. Little did I know that vinyl equipment options are endless and can get very expensive real fast. I must have been kidding myself to think I could tweak this in so quickly. I mean, I’ve spent the last 30 years tweaking in my digital rig.

Steve

[decal]

With only $50 invested in a 20 year old Craigslist rig, please set your expectations accordingly.

[Devil Doc]

My god, the system you have will reveal every flaw of a mid-fi turntable and cartridge. You really need to spend some money. Your rig demands it.

Doc

[JackD]

Wirenut

First the Shure cartridge that came on that TT for free is not crap, nor is the  ART preamp.  The ART is not a highend phono preamp nor does it pretend to be, but what it is is a funtional unit to let you see what you like or don't like about vinyl before you get in to deep.  The answer is not to through money at the problem until you know what the problem is. Start with the cartridge it either works or it doesn't and age has nothing to do with it, I have Shures and Empires older than yours and they work fine.  What your problem is with that cartridge is that OEM stylus are not obtainable for a fair price. So you can either buy a JICO sourced aftermarket stylus or change cartridge.  For a reasonable price to try that would include the Shure M97xe, Ortofon OM10. AT-95E or Grado Black.  In setup you can either use a protractor or use the Techinics shortcut of 52mm from washer to tip and square in the headshell.  Don't get sucked into the just spend money and that is the answer.  When you get your basic setup dialed in and see what you like or don't like then you can spend money if you need to.

[Delta Wave]

Yeah, that phonostage is terrible, they have them at my local record store on their test systems. They're bad enough that I don't even bother to listen to anything at the store. With that system I wouldn't even bother with a reasonably priced phonostage.  You'd be better off using a vintage preamp/receiver/integrated as a stand alone phono section. And I'll agree, try the Jico stylus and don't rely on the decks anti-skate indication markings.

[neobop]

My god, the system you have will reveal every flaw of a mid-fi turntable and cartridge. You really need to spend some money. Your rig demands it.
Doc

That's true.  You have a nice system.  If you found an old 8 track in a junkyard car, hooked it up to a 12 volt power supply and played it through your system.....?

Before you do anything I suggest you take a deep breath and figure out a strategy.  I suspect you bought a $50 record player cause you're unsure if vinyl is really viable for you after a quarter century.  That way you don't have much invested.  We can help you make a modest record player listenable, inoffensive, but it will never really compete with your better digital recordings, on your set-up. 

The scoop on what you have:  The M95HE is a bright cart, the brightest Shure of that era ('80s).  From what I can tell, the Art DJ2 is decent for what it is, but some find it too bright.  The cart is actually pretty good, has nice detail and transient response, but in combination, harsh.  With no height adjustment on your arm, you would need to shim the cart or change the mat thickness to adjust VTA/SRA.  If the back of the cart is going up, it's making matters worse.  If you stuck with the pre, at least for now, the M97 would be much more listenable.  If you change the pre to a V-LPS, you might not want the M-97.  Don't throw anything away.  You never know, or you could sell it.  To make it more listenable right away, I'm sure a couple of loading plugs and rigging the cart so it's level to the record, would go a long way.

Considering your system, you should gear up, IMO.   Maybe you should think about it some more.  Are you willing to put out the extra time, effort and money to enjoy the continuous sound of analogue?  There have been numerous threads about getting started, and people willing to make a still modest investment, who are happy with it.  Most of those people will upgrade as their situation allows.  On the other hand, if cleaning and collecting records, and futzing with the table and getting up after every side is too much, maybe you should back away.  For some, it's a PIA, for us, it's fun, or at least not a big deal.
neo

[wgallupe]

May I suggest a different approach....

Start with the understanding that you can get great sound from either a vinyl source or a digital source.

Looks like you already have a great digital source. All you need to do is figure out if you want to play LPs again. If the answer is yes, then plan on spending the same amount for analog source equipment as you did for your digital source equipment. 

That $50 CL find must look like a Fisher Price toy when sitting next to your equipment rack! Please don't expect that thing to sound as good as your digital source. Just know that you can get great sound from vinyl if you invest the same time and money into it as you did for your digital stuff.

Several years ago I was in the same situation as you. Since returning to analog, I have fully enjoyed my "resurrected" vinyl collection. In my system, differences in sound quality between LP, CD, SACD, HiRez downloads, etc. has more to do with the master recording than with my playback hardware.   

Don't give up, have some fun with it...     

[Art_Chicago]

I am thinking about what kind of sound one could get from a $50 CDP and a $50 preamp?

[trackball02]

Wirenut, I posted my experience in getting a cheapo Technics DD turntable under "Free Craigslist Find". I'm happy with it's sound but it did take a bit to improve it. First, check the RCA cables, mine were frayed and intermittently cut out or were full of static. You need to replace them. Second, pack the plinth with plastic clay. Third, lubricate the motor.

Mine came with a new Shure M44-7 cartridge, so that was not an issue. I agree with the comments about installing a new cartridge. As, I recall, you have a vintage receiver with a phono preamp. Does your current turntable also sound bad when plugged into the receiver?  As far as getting a phono preamp, it makes a huge difference. I am using a Nova Phonomena (overkill in this case) but makes a huge difference in sound quality compared to my older $200 phono preamp.