Affordable and Worthwhile Tweaks for the Hyperion 938s

RCduck7 · « **Reply #60 on:** 26 Aug 2009, 09:39 pm »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 25 Aug 2009, 06:13 am

RC, just remember the Isonodes are rated for a small range of load (weight). If you go over or under their rating by adding more Isonodes, it may not be as effective. I personally would change my listening height at the chair than try to change with Isonodes which may not be stable the way you decribe using them.

Ok , the larger isonodes i have can carry up to 19kg the package says while the module is 15kg.
I'm using 3 contact points.
I managed to tilt the back somewhat becausse i used 2 isonodes on top of each other for one contact point at the back.

Here are some pictures...

RCduck7 · « **Reply #61 on:** 27 Aug 2009, 08:57 pm »

Forget my previous post, i found something much better to achieve it and it's much more stable then with 3 contact points.
I'm using 4 isonodes as usual but at the back i'm using these shockabsorbers i actually found accidently in a shop.
They are about 1cm high which is enough to tilt the back of the module to the perfect sweetspot.
I'm only not sure in what way i will combine the isonodes with these shock absorbers.
Look at the pics and let me know in what way you think is most effective to use them.

Also, did anyone tried to place the flat side of the isonodes to the lower cabinet.
Since the isonodes are made for one component the flat side has to be up but if the isonodes are between two cabinets...

Dracule1 · « **Reply #62 on:** 30 Aug 2009, 09:52 am »

RC...Dude you're killing me! How about just listening to the isonodes as I have prescribed, before your quest for a Rube Goldberg contraption? You're missing out on the music!!

RCduck7 · « **Reply #63 on:** 30 Aug 2009, 09:21 pm »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 30 Aug 2009, 09:52 am

RC...Dude you're killing me! How about just listening to the isonodes as I have prescribed, before your quest for a Rube Goldberg contraption? You're missing out on the music!!

Oh, i did, it sounds great with isonodes! they are not standard rubber like some products but they have some hard gel of sorts.
Good things and i used them as described Dracule1.
I found some inprovement when i lifted the back, but rest easy, it's done in a proper and stable way.
I consider this mod aproved and done.
But i have an other worry about the HPS-906, see the more appropiate topic.

RCduck7 · « **Reply #64 on:** 5 Sep 2009, 11:21 pm »

Quote from: Dracule1 on 1 Sep 2005, 02:09 am

Roy,

The isonodes will leave a thin residue on the piano finish, but it can be removed with a damp cloth. If left on long term, I don't know if permenant damage will occur. I do recommend using separate small sheets of Seran wrap on top and bottom of the isonodes to prevent residue.

As for the stability, the upper cabinet will mildy wobble if you push the cabinet, but if you use the smaller isonodes like Rwolters, it will probably be minimal.

The improvement is very significant and readily apparent, better than cable upgrade IMO.

It's dirt cheap too .

I just left the white backing sheets on the isonodes... I don't think it will change the isonodes doing their work.

RCduck7 · « **Reply #65 on:** 5 Sep 2009, 11:44 pm »

Quote from: Roeland on 6 Sep 2005, 04:33 pm

Someone I know is bringing some Isonodes from the States for me by the end of September... I'm very curious aftrer reading all this...

Another tweak I'll try out for my 906 is filling the lower cabinet (the hollow stand) with a garbagebag, filled with +- 100 pounds of sand for improved dampening and stability.

Greetings Roeland

Hi Roeland, i have seen you are also from Belgium, it's a small world eh?
I tried to PM you but it wouldn't work through this site, i got an error, dunno if your still posting here though.
still got your 906's? Done the sandbag mod?

Greetz

bkh · « **Reply #66 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 03:37 am »

I am currently using the Bright Star Isonode Sorbathane feet under the mid/tweeter module. They certainly are improvements over the stock feet.

I have read great feedback about the Herbie Big Fat dot (http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm#von), which have significant improvements on Von Schweikert.

One comments suggested that:
"Decoupling with compliant materials like Sorbothane is usually worse. Your intuition about compliant interface, with speakers, is correct. With compliant materials, the idea isn't to let vibrations dissipate, but is to absorb vibrations (transfer the energy to heat). Rubber and Sorbothane, and most squishy materials will absorb some vibrations but yet by their compliant nature will also allow the cabinet to vibrate unconstrained to some degree. Then, rubbery materials will introduce resonances of their own into the cabinet that affect the speakers' drivers. Any benefit you get is usually at the cost of some detrimental trade-off.

Have anyone of you tried the Herbie Big Fat dot and compare that to the Isonode?

satfrat · « **Reply #67 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 03:51 am »

Quote from: bkh on 19 Jun 2010, 03:37 am

I am currently using the Bright Star Isonode Sorbathane feet under the mid/tweeter module. They certainly are improvements over the stock feet.

I have read great feedback about the Herbie Big Fat dot (http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm#von), which have significant improvements on Von Schweikert.

One comments suggested that:
"Decoupling with compliant materials like Sorbothane is usually worse. Your intuition about compliant interface, with speakers, is correct. With compliant materials, the idea isn't to let vibrations dissipate, but is to absorb vibrations (transfer the energy to heat). Rubber and Sorbothane, and most squishy materials will absorb some vibrations but yet by their compliant nature will also allow the cabinet to vibrate unconstrained to some degree. Then, rubbery materials will introduce resonances of their own into the cabinet that affect the speakers' drivers. Any benefit you get is usually at the cost of some detrimental trade-off.

Have anyone of you tried the Herbie Big Fat dot and compare that to the Isonode?

bkh,,, I'll give you a headsup right now just incase you haven't heard or taken steps to protect your loudspeaker finish, those Isonodes will not only stain the finish, if you leave them on long enough it'll take a scrapper to remove them. I have the permanent stains on my Sanus rack shelves as a reminder. Those Isonodes are a POS in my humble opinion.

No such issues with Herbies Big Fat Dots which I'm using with a 2" marble platform on top of my ACI Force XL subwoofer for mass loading.

As far as any comparisons between the 2 in your situation, I don't have a clue.

Cheers,
Robin

bkh · « **Reply #68 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 07:17 am »

Robin - Thanks for the heads up. I did use plastic to wrap around the Isonode to protect my speaker finish. With the weight of the mid/tweeter module, the isonode did squash flat like a POS.

I am interested to replace Isonode with Herbie's Big Fat Dot. Wanted to find out if this is worth for upgrade.

satfrat · « **Reply #69 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 07:28 am »

Well you might want to post in Herbie's Circle and get Steve's thoughts. There's really only one way to know for sure tho and that's to do a comparison for yourself. Herbie gives you a 90 day money back option on all his products and I can assure you the USPS shipping charges won't kill ya.

I'm glad to hear you're not learning the hard way like I did on them Isonodes. They're bad news stainwise and just generally messy to deal with once they've flattened out if you haven't used some sort of protection with them.

Cheers,
Robin

Dracule1 · « **Reply #70 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 11:10 am »

Guys, I specifically said use Saran wrap to protect your speaker from the Isonodes in my original post. As far as Isonodes being POS, I really disagree. Those of us who have use the appropriate number of the Isonodes (these have an optimal load) have heard the obvious benefits. As far has Herbies stuff goes, I am a fan. Should be interesting how Big Fat Dot compare with the Isonodes.

AlanJL · « **Reply #71 on:** 2 Feb 2011, 08:03 am »

Hi
I ow a pair of Hyperion 938s and want to change the crossovers and generally upgrade.
I live in Abu Dhabi home is Ireland .Spoke by E mail to John in Russ Andrews who was most helpful .Can this upgrade be done on a DIY basis.I believe the rear panels of the lower unit have to be removed to gain access to the inside.
Has anybody done this as I am concerned over making a total mess of the piano black finish.
Thanks
AlanJL

RCduck7 · « **Reply #72 on:** 7 Feb 2011, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: AlanJL on 2 Feb 2011, 08:03 am

Hi
I ow a pair of Hyperion 938s and want to change the crossovers and generally upgrade.
I live in Abu Dhabi home is Ireland .Spoke by E mail to John in Russ Andrews who was most helpful .Can this upgrade be done on a DIY basis.I believe the rear panels of the lower unit have to be removed to gain access to the inside.
Has anybody done this as I am concerned over making a total mess of the piano black finish.
Thanks
AlanJL

Have you read this topic allready??

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69979.0

AlanJL · « **Reply #73 on:** 21 Feb 2011, 07:38 am »

I spoke to John in Russ Andrews who suggested because the 938 is a complex speaker. The task of changing the crossovers was not exactly simple and he did not have all the info at hand on the work they done for a previous customer.
I think I will err on the side of caution and wait till I return home and send the units to RA and let the professionals do it.
Thanks for the link ::

RCduck7 · « **Reply #74 on:** 2 Mar 2011, 09:18 pm »

Quote from: AlanJL on 21 Feb 2011, 07:38 am

I spoke to John in Russ Andrews who suggested because the 938 is a complex speaker. The task of changing the crossovers was not exactly simple and he did not have all the info at hand on the work they done for a previous customer.
I think I will err on the side of caution and wait till I return home and send the units to RA and let the professionals do it.
Thanks for the link ::

I was considering myself to do this upgrade as a DIY as i don't like the idea of shipping the speakers from Belgium where i live to Russ Andrews. If you do send the units to Russ Andrews, hopefuly this time they keep track of all the info needed for this upgrade. Maybe you could remind them.

Anyways, if you do the upgrade, then please keep us posted on how the changes turned out for you.
I wish you all the best.

Bassphil · « **Reply #75 on:** 9 Aug 2011, 05:51 pm »

Hey, thanks for the great forum. I just picked up a pair of 938's and was shocked at how glaring the midrange was. The previous speakers in the hot seat were my Spendor SP1's which have a pretty amazing midrange, so the competition was pretty tough.

I was just about to sell them after about 30 minutes of listening, then I discovered the post about the Isonodes. I just tucked them under the midrange cabinets and the results were pretty dramatic!

I'm going to fool around with room placement and treatments now to further improve the sound. Thanks for the tip!!

RCduck7 · « **Reply #76 on:** 10 Aug 2011, 10:25 pm »

Quote from: Bassphil on 9 Aug 2011, 05:51 pm

Hey, thanks for the great forum. I just picked up a pair of 938's and was shocked at how glaring the midrange was. The previous speakers in the hot seat were my Spendor SP1's which have a pretty amazing midrange, so the competition was pretty tough.

I was just about to sell them after about 30 minutes of listening, then I discovered the post about the Isonodes. I just tucked them under the midrange cabinets and the results were pretty dramatic!

I'm going to fool around with room placement and treatments now to further improve the sound. Thanks for the tip!!

Glad you like these speakers, it is a treasure to find a less known speakers that performs beyond you think was a good and maybe "safe" place to be in.
Dynaudio and Spendor were my favorite speakers before i heard the Hyperion 938, so i think we have about he same taste of how a speakers should sound... natural. Not that i have become a nay sayer to other speakers like Spendor, they are still good speakers in the right circumstances, room, acoustics and placement. Regarding room placement, don't place them to close to the front wall. Stereo image and depth will suffer. There is some info on this forum regarding the 938 speakers but feel free to ask or post your experience.

Dracule1 · « **Reply #77 on:** 21 Aug 2011, 09:55 am »

Bassphil, I'm surprised you found the midrange of the 938s glaring

. Even without the isonodes, it should not sound glaring. Yes, the isonodes will noticeably improve the sound. But your initial assessment puts up red flags. May be it's your room, AC noise, electronics, or cables that's causing the glaring midrange. I have heard 938s in many different rooms and with many different electronics. I would have never described the midrange as glaring. Can you give us some idea of your setup (room dimension, electronics, speaker placement, room treatment, etc)?

Bassphil · « **Reply #78 on:** 21 Aug 2011, 03:26 pm »

I was surprised as well, actually. One possibility is that my preamp seems to have developed a resistor or FET issue, so it's in the shop now. I can't imagine that was affecting the tone that much, though. It was creating a little noise in the left channel... A friend of mine is sending me his preamp prototype to use until my pre is fixed. It should be in on Monday. I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if that was the issue.

As far as components and cabling, I have good stuff: Audio Research SP11 MK2 retubed with brand new Genelic reissues, a Digital Amplifier Company Cherry Plus, Cary Xciter DAC, and all Analysis-Plus Solo Crystal Oval interconnects and speaker wires.

I'm connecting the speaker wires to the midrange posts, then jumping from there. When I get a working pre back in the system, maybe I'll experiment with connecting them to other posts and see what happens.

Room placement could definitely be an issue. The room is 14' wide X 20' long with and 8' high ceiling. The stereo is on the 14' wide wall. The problem is the entrance into the room.

If you are sitting in the listening position on one wall looking at the stereo, the stereo has to be shifted to the left of center because the entrance to the room is along the right side. It's an upstairs room and the staircase comes up though the middle of the house.

Anyway, because of this, I can only get the speakers out from the rear wall about a foot and a half. The right right speaker is 4' from the side wall (and entrance opening) and the left speaker is about a foot and a half from the side wall. They're about 7 and a half feet apart and ever so sprightly toed in. The listening position is about 11 feet away. It's all plaster and lathe, but the wall behind the listening position has a giant curtain rod with two thick curtains on it. There is plenty of diffusion going on, but I certainly need some treatments.

Still, I've recently had both Magnepan's and then Spendor SP1's in the same position and the only think I noticed was over saturation on the bass frequencies, not weird midrange. When I walk up to the 938’s and put my ear up to the midrange driver, I can hear the glare- the character of the midrange.

Some recordings are fine, but others are pretty awful. Jazz piano recordings seem to be the most affected, though the Isonodes helped chill it out a bit. I thought that these speakers were supposed to be forgiving of poorly recorded recordings, but they seem to be waaaay less forgiving than the Spendors, which I thought were pretty studio-monitor-like!

Right after I bought these, I was offered the 968's at a very good price. If I can swing it, I may just hop over to those and sell my 938's for what I paid for them

. A friend of mine has the 968's that sound great, which turned me on to Hyperion in the first place. That reminds me, I have to chase that offer down and see if they're still available...

Until then, I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for posting!!

-Phil
www.philpalombi.com

Dracule1 · « **Reply #79 on:** 22 Aug 2011, 07:59 pm »

Looks like you got good electronics and cabling. The biggest problematic issue is your speaker placement. Hyperions will not sound its best unless you find a way to get it out into the room at least 4 to 5 feet IMHO, preferably 6 feet, in a room your size. I would think you would get bass boom at certain frequencies and midrange muddiness with the speakers so close to the back wall. And the asymmetric placement from the side walls is not optimum for imaging. I would at least experiment with placing them farther into the room and symmetrically from the side walls -- even if this is not a practical location, I would try just to see if things improve. It would not hurt to get some absorption along the first and second reflection points and bass trap behind the listening position and absorption on the front wall between the speakers.

BTW, when you put your ear up against the driver, do you hear the glare from the tweeter or midrange? Both speakers or one?