HD800 and LCD-2 Impressions

DaveNote · « **on:** 17 Aug 2011, 03:52 pm »

I'm new to AudioCircle, so please accept my apologies if I've violated a rule. I posted the following comment on the Bryston new acquisitions thread, but thought members of this circle might find it of interest:

My latest buy? Audeze LCD-2 headphones. I drive them with a Grace Designs m902 headphone amp. These are in addition to my Sennheiser HD800s. The HD800s are outstanding in terms of transparency and what I take to mean as accuracy. The LCD-2s have a less open and airy sound that reviewers call "dark". The sound is more intimate and compelling. If I were a recording engineer, I would not be without the HD800s. But compared to the LCD-2s, they are cold and clinical. I'm not a sound engineer. I'm an audiophile, which means I love the gear, but more than that, I love music. The LCD-2s are all about the music - they make it warm, punchy, exciting. I admire the HD800s, which will spend a lot of time in the box. I love the LCD-2s. They will spend a lot of time on my head, and likely connected to a Bryston BHA-1.

highfilter · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 04:42 pm »

Thanks for the comparison. The more I read about the LCD-2s, the more they look like a bargain at their price-point.

DaveNote · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: highfilter on 17 Aug 2011, 04:42 pm

Thanks for the comparison. The more I read about the LCD-2s, the more they look like a bargain at their price-point.

At about $1000, they aren't much of a bargain, but you're bang on in saying the price is good compared to the HD800s. I haven't enjoyed my music so much since getting my upgraded PMC speakers. More significantly, they are forcing me to rethink a preference I have had in buying and judging audio equipment for over 40 years. I have always been part of the school looking for accuracy above all, that is to get reproduction as close to what goes onto a disc as possible. It makes for great gear; however, with the LCD-2, there is no question that these cans are accurate, but they blow the HD800s, IMHO, in terms of musicality. The pitfall of the audiophile is to listen to the gear more than to the music, a failing I share. The LCD-2s have forced me the other way.

Tyson · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 07:50 pm »

I have the exact same opinion of the HD800's compared to the BeyerDynamic T1's. HD800's have a larger soundstage and are more clinical. The T1's are way more musical.

santacore · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 08:20 pm »

I own both the LCD-2's and the HD-800's. Let me summarize by saying that I've put on the HD800's only a couple times since buying the LCD-2's over a year ago. I find the LCD-2's extremely musical and accurate, but in a different way from the HD800's. Both are excellent headphones but present the music in a different way.

HD800=Fast, very open sounding, slightly clinical, and bass light.
LCD-2=Fast, medium presentation, extremely musical, and solid bass.

Plus the LCD-2 are hand assembled in California by fellow audio professionals. They get my vote!!

DaveNote · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 08:30 pm »

Tyson and Santacore, may I ask you both what you are using to drive your LCD-2s? I ask, because My guess is that my Grace Designs may be as clinical as the HD800.

santacore · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 11:13 pm »

Dave, I think you might be right.

I'm driving my LCD-2's with a Lector Zoe preamp going to a one off 30 watt tube amp by Jim Nicholls. Jim made the amp with a headphone out which has worked out very well with these phones. So far, this is my favorite amp setup.

The key to driving these phones is power. Pick the topography of your choice and give them at least 3+ watts and you should be good.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 01:52 am »

My LCD2's should be here tomorrow. I also have the Hifiman HE5LE's to compare them to.

DaveNote · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: santacore on 17 Aug 2011, 11:13 pm

Dave, I think you might be right.

I'm driving my LCD-2's with a Lector Zoe preamp going to a one off 30 watt tube amp by Jim Nicholls. Jim made the amp with a headphone out which has worked out very well with these phones. So far, this is my favorite amp setup.

The key to driving these phones is power. Pick the topography of your choice
and give them at least 3+ watts and you should be good

Thanks. The only direct comparisons I can make are the Grace and the headphone jack of my Bryston preamp. Frankly I can hear no difference between the two. Not surprising since some feel that Bryston gear that can sound too neutral, if that is possible. Anyway, I am new to the rich, warm sound of the LCD-2s. It may be, then, that the Grace/Bryston alternative might make them more balanced than an amp which delivers a warmer sound. What do others think?

adydula · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 06:30 pm »

I had a set og AKG702 for several months...used with a variety of amps...got the LCD2's on a 'whim'...to see how good cans really are etc...

These are world class for sure....the freq plot is FLAT...I like that...good in good out, bad in bad out...

They are very musical and this to means if the recording or source material is well done, recorded, mastered then the outcome is absolutely AWESOME.

I more often than not get lost in the music...and the gear dissappears!

Be very interested in hearing the HE5LE comparison.

All the best
Alex

DaveNote · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 06:49 pm »

Hi Alex: How would you compare the AKG702s to your LCD-2s (which I also bought on a whim)? And what kind of amp are you using for your LCD-2s?

Dave

Noseyears · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 10:29 pm »

I've tried both, they're great. But i feel like the T1's suit me better. More musical, engaging.

adydula · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 12:43 am »

The AKG 702s when I first got them were awesome to me compared to anything I have had in the past...seemed very accurate and clinical, very wide soundstage, the base is taunt, tight and not in the least bit boomy...and I used a Schiit Asgard SS amp, a SOHAii DIY amp I built (12AU7 tubes a hybrid design), a Schitt Lyr and Van Alstines Insight + pre amp head amp section and finally a Onkyo 805 AVR. All amps were able to drive the 702s to extremely loud levels. The AKG 702s on my head were very light and seemed like they werent even there most of the times. The sound seemed very accurate and very revealing to me.

Along comes the LCD2's and the difference was immediate to me. The demo cuts played seemed so much more accurate in tonal quality...much more so than the 702s which already impressed me. The strings, piano, vocals, percussion, the abilty to reveal all things in a recording...very, very nice qualities. It took me three days to come to a decision to sell the 702's.

The 702's are $250 and the LCD2s are $950 are they worth the difference? To me yes, but its a big price differential.

The best amp with the LCD2's is the Lyr with EH6922 tubes...I get lost in the music all the time..are there other cans as good or better, maybe but I dont have to look any further...they are that good.

All the best
Alex

Heres Is the plot for my LCD2's:

Several others:

DaveNote · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 01:00 am »

Thanks, Alex. Very helpful, and most appreciated. I've never owned equipment with tubes, probably because I have a memory of my father forever having to replace tubes in our TV sets. That's more than 50 years ago? How long do the tubes last, and are they difficult to find? Are they expensive?

Dave

adydula · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 02:22 am »

Dave,

Tubes still are problematic...they get HOT, change over time, and still have all the worts they used to...

That said several tube amp makers state a life of 5000 hours + for tubes.

It really depends on things like how many times do you power them on and off, how you do this..etc.

I have three tube amps, only one had a short in a tube and I lost a channel and a grid resistor that smoked on a $2K amp.

There is a real cottage industry in old vintage tubes called NOS. People pay hundreds on dollars for 40 yr old tubes and swear by them...highly over rated but boy do these guys defend that turf!!

The reason I like the Lyr is it has up to six watts of power and can drive almost any hard to drive headphone. I added a graph of several highly rated cans above and the really neat thing about the LCD2's its they are flat and go down to 5hz with the REV2's...and the bass is just plain PERFECT with them....hate to say this but more accurate than many speakers....they are absolutely amazing in this department.

There are many really good Solid State amps that would be a wonderful choice for the LCD2's..in particular I like the Burson HA160.

Tubes will be tubes...always hot, always glowing in the dark!! Nostalgic..

Alex

DaveNote · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 02:56 am »

Alex, I couldn't have been given a better primer on tubes. Brings back not nostalgia, for me, but shades of my father's pain with tubes. I guess I'm too old, too lazy, and too used to gear that is trouble free to put up with tube hassles at this late date. I've heard good things about the Burson HA160, but I saw two problems with it noted in reviews. One reviewer had a ground loop with it when he'd never had one with other amps. Another complained about clicking from the step volume attenuator. I found with stepped volume controls that the right setting is often between steps. Have you had any of these problems with the Burson?

Dave

adydula · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 04:21 pm »

Dave,

Tubes still are what they are, in the Lyr with only 2 tubes its quite manageable and nostalgic without the adjustments to bias etc....again it was the 6 watts I wanted.

That said the ha160 has many happy campers....with great results...and with most things there always it that isolated issue like the ground thing..but many have never had this at all. The step attenuator would not be a real issue for me...

There are many other good solid state amps. the B22 DIY is great but it has all the worts of DIY..u build it, and if it doesnt setup or work ..u get to troubleshoot!! and that can be a REAL pain...been there!!

There are several SS amps, like the vioelectric hpa v100 and v200...audio-gd stuff, the matrix m-stage, the Millet Mosfet Maxed etc....and the Schitt Asgard etc.

So many choices!
Alex

eclein · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 04:36 pm »

Alex- I decided on the EF-5 by HiFiMan instead of the Lyr because it was most likely used when voicing my HE-5LE's.....it was such a close, toss up like decision, but Jason at Schiit told me the Lyr was what he suggested of his amps because of the power, so the Asgard he ruled out for me-it was an option I gave him also. Just some info...

adydula · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 06:15 pm »

eclien...

You have a great set of cans and a great amp as well...it really splitting hairs...and once thru that morass its back to the music!!

And this is what its all about!!

Alex

DaveNote · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 11:52 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 19 Aug 2011, 04:21 pm

Dave,

Tubes still are what they are, in the Lyr with only 2 tubes its quite manageable and nostalgic without the adjustments to bias etc....again it was the 6 watts I wanted.

That said the ha160 has many happy campers....with great results...and with most things there always it that isolated issue like the ground thing..but many have never had this at all. The step attenuator would not be a real issue for me...

There are many other good solid state amps. the B22 DIY is great but it has all the worts of DIY..u build it, and if it doesnt setup or work ..u get to troubleshoot!! and that can be a REAL pain...been there!!

There are several SS amps, like the vioelectric hpa v100 and v200...audio-gd stuff, the matrix m-stage, the Millet Mosfet Maxed etc....and the Schitt Asgard etc.

So many choices!
Alex

Thanks for the additional suggestions, Alex.

Dave