[Mr. Big]

Jim Smith's book is great. Very helpful. He like me from experience are very iffy about using spikes on speakers, and many sound better without them on carpeted floors floors with a good carpet pad, my Spatials sound better without them by far, top to bottom improvements, including the balance from the highs down. My speakers come with feet in the front where the spikes screw into, so I still get a tilt back without the need of the spikes at all. Everyone whose heard my system, I play with the front spikes on, and they say wow these sound real good, then I take off the spikes after awhile play the same song, I say zip and wait for their reaction and its OMG 100% of the time. One way sounds good the other world class.

[DaveWin88]

Jim Smith's book is great. Very helpful. He like me from experience are very iffy about using spikes on speakers, and many sound better without them on carpeted floors floors with a good carpet pad, my Spatials sound better without them by far, top to bottom improvements, including the balance from the highs down. My speakers come with feet in the front where the spikes screw into, so I still get a tilt back without the need of the spikes at all. Everyone whose heard my system, I play with the front spikes on, and they say wow these sound real good, then I take off the spikes after awhile play the same song, I say zip and wait for their reaction and its OMG 100% of the time. One way sounds good the other world class.

Where did you get said feet? Could you post a picture please. ty

[Mr. Big]

Where did you get said feet? Could you post a picture,,, please? ty

They are on the Spatial Sapphires all ready, it's the foot where you screw the spikes into on the front of the speaker, there is nothing to do but unscrew the 2 spikes, and the small one in the back that does nothing if you have carpet,  not long enough nor sharp enough to go through the carpet or pad below, useless really.

[Early B.]

Jim Smith's book is great. Very helpful. He like me from experience are very iffy about using spikes on speakers, and many sound better without them on carpeted floors with a good carpet pad, my Spatials sound better without them by far, top to bottom improvements, including the balance from the highs down.

Is your floor underneath the carpet concrete or wood?

I have wood floor with a basement underneath. Bass notes make the floor vibrate along with everything else in the room. With spikes, bass is cleaner -- at least in my room. 

[DaveWin88]

They are on the Spatial Sapphires all ready, it's the foot where you screw the spikes into on the front of the speaker, there is nothing to do but unscrew the 2 spikes, and the small one in the back that does nothing if you have carpet,  not long enough nor sharp enough to go through the carpet or pad below, useless really.

Okey Dokey.

[Tyson]

I find optimal sound occurs with speakers at least 5 feet in to the room.  Or more. 

[timind]

I find optimal sound occurs with speakers at least 5 feet in to the room.  Or more.

I find the same. Forget speakers, amps, source, or any other piece of gear, the biggest upgrade in my life was moving my system into a room which allows optimal speaker placement.

[Mr. Big]

Is your floor underneath the carpet concrete or wood?

I have wood floor with a basement underneath. Bass notes make the floor vibrate along with everything else in the room. With spikes, bass is cleaner -- at least in my room.

I have my speakers on thick carpet with a 10lb pad underneath, never used any of my speakers on a wood floor, nor would I. Carpet helps big time. My whole 1st floor is wood, 2nd level is all carpet.

[Tangram]

I have my speakers on thick carpet with a 10lb pad underneath, never used any of my speakers on a wood floor, nor would I. Carpet helps big time. My whole 1st floor is wood, 2nd level is all carpet.

I'm the same, think carpet over underlay over concrete basement floor. I use the feet, not the spikes.

It brings up an interesting point (at least to me) though. The very nature of open baffles like Spatials is that they aren't very stable back to front. With box speakers, with the exception of the BBC style and a few others, they are made to be rigid and stable. With the Spatials, our 15" woofers are, relatively speaking, making our baffles tilt in the wind. Yet, it doesn't seem to affect the sound.

What gives?

[Mr. Big]

I'm the same, think carpet over underlay over concrete basement floor. I use the feet, not the spikes.

It brings up an interesting point (at least to me) though. The very nature of open baffles like Spatials is that they aren't very stable back to front. With box speakers, with the exception of the BBC style and a few others, they are made to be rigid and stable. With the Spatials, our 15" woofers are, relatively speaking, making our baffles tilt in the wind. Yet, it doesn't seem to affect the sound.

What gives?

With the front footers even without the spikes, the speaker is very stable. Yes is you push on it, it will move to and fro, but the same with the small spikes on it. Speaker weight 80lbs so that speaker not moving much at all unless you give it a push forward hard same as it be for a box speakers or stats, or electrostatics. Maybe with the height of a taller speaker it might tip a touch more easy that say a Quad ESL.

[Tangram]

With the front footers even without the spikes, the speaker is very stable. Yes is you push on it, it will move to and fro, but the same with the small spikes on it. Speaker weight 80lbs so that speaker not moving much at all unless you give it a push forward hard same as it be for a box speakers or stats, or electrostatics. Maybe with the height of a taller speaker it might tip a touch more easy that say a Quad ESL.

That’s what I’m referring to, the ease with which the baffle flops back and forth when you give it a little push with your finger. Not concerned about whether it will tip over if you bump the speaker. Like you said, they are very stable in that regard.

Baffle movement caused by woofer movement is something that owners of box speakers don’t accept because it apparently smears the sound. Yet, with the Spatials, I don’t get that sense at all, even though our baffle, with twin 15” woofers, undoubtedly moves back and forth when the music is playing. We are talking fractions of inches here, but still, that small amount is apparently unacceptable for box speaker makers and owners. My point being, I question the efforts box speaker makers go to when trying to minimize movement. Maybe it doesn’t matter, like people think it does.

[DaveWin88]

That’s what I’m referring to, the ease with which the baffle flops back and forth when you give it a little push with your finger. Not concerned about whether it will tip over if you bump the speaker. Like you said, they are very stable in that regard.

Baffle movement caused by woofer movement is something that owners of box speakers don’t accept because it apparently smears the sound. Yet, with the Spatials, I don’t get that sense at all, even though our baffle, with twin 15” woofers, undoubtedly moves back and forth when the music is playing. We are talking fractions of inches here, but still, that small amount is apparently unacceptable for box speaker makers and owners. My point being, I question the efforts box speaker makers go to when trying to minimize movement. Maybe it doesn’t matter, like people think it does.

I believe movement matters. That's why OB speakers for classical music are a match made in heaven. The bass, mid bass driver almost never move. They can start and stop on a bugs shadow:) and respond instantly. Every note has great transients.

[Tangram]

I'm not sure I get where you are coming from. Is this because classical music doesn't contain low frequency information, or at least much of it?
I'm more of a rock music guy so I want to see those woofers move. And they do, big time. And they must move the baffle when they do. But still sounds great.

[DaveWin88]

I'm not sure I get where you are coming from. Is this because classical music doesn't contain low frequency information, or at least much of it?
I'm more of a rock music guy so I want to see those woofers move. And they do, big time. And they must move the baffle when they do. But still sounds great.

Well the movement is less as a whole imo than a box speaker. Classical has plenty of low information, maybe not rock low. Plus I don't listen any higher than say 75-80db.

[Tangram]

Why would it be less than for a box speaker? Not trying to stir things up - genuinely interested in your thoughts.

[DaveWin88]

Air pressure in the box changes with the driver movement. Put your hand by a bass port.

[Mr. Big]

That’s what I’m referring to, the ease with which the baffle flops back and forth when you give it a little push with your finger. Not concerned about whether it will tip over if you bump the speaker. Like you said, they are very stable in that regard.

Baffle movement caused by woofer movement is something that owners of box speakers don’t accept because it apparently smears the sound. Yet, with the Spatials, I don’t get that sense at all, even though our baffle, with twin 15” woofers, undoubtedly moves back and forth when the music is playing. We are talking fractions of inches here, but still, that small amount is apparently unacceptable for box speaker makers and owners. My point being, I question the efforts box speaker makers go to when trying to minimize movement. Maybe it doesn’t matter, like people think it does.

There is no smearing of the bass without the spikes on a carpeted floor with a good pad under the carpet, as detailed as I have ever heard, as well as deep when it is on the recording to spike or not that is one own decision, much like damping the top of the case on audio gear, I don't like that effect either, so to each his own, because many do. The hobby that this is the only absolute is the way you enjoy your system. I feel more vibrations with the spikes on because it sounds them back up to the speakers from exciting the floor below them. As far as rocking I have to physically move the speaker back and forth, while playing normal music there is none.

[DaveWin88]

OK Guys instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would just add to this one about speaker placement - room treatment. Thanks forky for a great and important topic.

OK guys update to my setup. First I really took the time to measure and make it as even as I can. I put the speakers at the minimum distance 36" from the front wall to make better use of the space. I was watching a video of Jim Smith on (The Absolute Sound) YT channel, and have to agree with Jim's recommendation. Sitting too close you do get better? instrument separation, but in reality you would have to be very close almost on stage to get that level and it sounds unnatural. Sitting back does put everything in context. I received my Gik 244 bass traps. It took a couple weeks, so keep that in mind if you order any. They are free standing which is really nice. Been playing with ceiling tiles to no real avail So as I was putting these in place I asked myself literally in my mind, would these be the ticket. Well guys I was pretty shocked at the improvement. Listening to some classical music on vinyl, I was surprised at how much clearer and the muddiness was gone. The upper frequency's seem to really benefit. I put Alfred Brendal Schubert piano music which I'm very familiar with and was really blown away. I have NEVER NEVER heard it sound this good. Nuance to the notes and the piano, you could hear the note getting struck. Every note was distinct and the air in between is killer. I was so happy to say the least. All vinyl sounded clearer, better high's, great bass. I feel like the upper bass driver really shines. I sometime wonder if it was even contributing at all in the past. A good portion of the tweeter output that seem to bug me has diminished. I'm guessing that has to do the the mid bass driver contributing better in that area. All in all guys, the GIK traps worked wonders for me.  Now I'm starting to hear what my system can really do. I'm very impressed to say the least. Thank you to all that reached out to help. btw the bass traps are even with the speakers, it just doesn't look like it from the angle of the photo's. Oh another thing. Vinyl is the shit These albums are 45-60 years old (phillips mostly) wholly mackerel they sound amazing.

[Tangram]

Glad this is working for you. From what I've read, diffusion is required behind a dipole because you don't want the energy from the back sound wave being less than the front sound wave. Looks like a nice room you have to work with. What's the purpose of raising the speakers? I already find the tweeters are higher than my ears on my M# Sapphires. Is it so the carpet isn't damaged?

[DaveWin88]

The M6's are pretty low, 36" out of the box. Raising them was me getting them to integrate better the tweeter and the mid bass driver. Listening to the tweeter a bit off axis.