Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3

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hilde45

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #20 on: 16 Dec 2021, 10:00 pm »
This is one of the very best speaker reviews I have ever read. I cannot wait to hear this speaker.

Rather than ask a million questions here, I'll just ask a couple:

First, did you rule out speakers in the Devore or Audio Note lines because of the geometry challenges of your room? They seem like they'd play nicely with your amps.

Second, I'm wondering how and why you chose this particular Spatial. Not only M series vs X series (which I'd like to know) but also which among the X series speakers.

I read your post a bit quickly, so i apologize if you answered these in your review. You can just tell me to reread it and I'll try harder to notice your answers!

Chewbacca

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #21 on: 16 Dec 2021, 11:26 pm »
AWESOME review, as always, Tyson! It's quite a feat to have 2 systems that are totally world class!

As you said, given the X3's being very close to what the Oticas produce, and after hearing what I'm hearing as my Oticas burn in... HOLY CRAP! I'm sure the X3's are outstanding!!! If I wasn't able to do the DIY route, or didn't want to spend the time, there's absolutely no doubt in my head I would have saved my pennies and bought a pair of X3/X5's! What you said about the room integration is spot on... I literally spent YEARS (unsuccessfully) trying to find best placement/sub settings to eliminate room modes. Going as far as trying to "unphase" the speakers with the sub to eliminate modes at different frequencies, PEQ up the wazoo - messed with it at least once weekly... Which, I suppose was nice to learn how to really integrate a sub properly. But with OB speakers, I plopped them down, and the first spot I put them there was nothing. Just solid tuneful bass all the way down. No major spikes/dips, nothing. Spent about 3 minutes integrating the sub, and I'm not sure I even touched it since. Unreal... I'm still shaking my head over it. OB is no doubt the best for "non-dedicated" rooms... and probably dedicated as well :lol: Regardless, super happy you're enjoying them! Once you hear "no box", it's all over...

And Clayton... well done! :thumb:

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #22 on: 17 Dec 2021, 12:40 am »
What a fantastic all encompassing review Tyson! Perhaps you should charge an admission fee for the plethora of amps you can rotate amongst your speakers  :wink:! That really gives folks an idea how the speakers deal with various designs. Glad you are enjoying it!

Happy Holidays and hope we meet again at another audio GTG.
Best,
Anand.

Thanks Anand, that means a lot, coming from you.  It would be great to hook up again, it's too bad RMAF is no more....


Great review! Thanks!

Thank you.


I gave setting my speakers straight ahead a try for the past hour (both orchestra and ensemble).  No sonic improvements that I could hear.  But, soundstage and especially depth was way better.  It sounded fuller and more robust.  My room and acoustic treatments are much better set up now so maybe that explains it.  Anyway, I am going it leave it this way for a few weeks.  What a hobby!
Marcus

Yes, that's exactly what I hear too - greater soundstage depth.


This is one of the very best speaker reviews I have ever read. I cannot wait to hear this speaker.

Rather than ask a million questions here, I'll just ask a couple:

First, did you rule out speakers in the Devore or Audio Note lines because of the geometry challenges of your room? They seem like they'd play nicely with your amps.

Second, I'm wondering how and why you chose this particular Spatial. Not only M series vs X series (which I'd like to know) but also which among the X series speakers.

I read your post a bit quickly, so i apologize if you answered these in your review. You can just tell me to reread it and I'll try harder to notice your answers!

Well, how honest do you want me to be?   :lol:  Very honest?  OK, I've heard the Devore and Audio Note and they just aren't in the same class as the X3's.  Box speakers are odd, because the very best performing box speakers tend to be mid-to-low efficiency.  So the speaker brands I'd put at this level would be stuff like Focal (Grand Utopia), Borrensen, TIDAL, Raidho, a few others.  All are absolutely great sounding but not exactly good matches for low powered tube amps.  Plus, in my space I already had a pair of outstanding high efficiency box speakers (the hotrodded Forte's) and after 2 years they drove me crazy because no box speaker is going to do well in my space, no matter how efficient it is. 

Re: picking the X3 vs the Sapphire series, it mainly comes down to the AMT tweeter.  I've heard several other speakers that used it and I felt it was a great, great tweeter.  Also, from a technology standpoint, I'm kind of bored of speakers with 1 inch dome tweeters. 

Re: powered bass vs. passive - I've run both in my house and passive is fine if you've got a stout amp, but powered is better if you want to run a Type 45 amp or a 2a3 amp.  And, IME a dedicated 300 watt SS amp is always going to do a better job on the bass than any tube amp ever will.  In addition, the ability to dial up or down the bass based on mood and preference is very cool indeed.  And last but not least, even with OB bass, the right side of my room loads bass a bit more than the left side.  So being able to fix that imbalance with a simple twist of the knob on the left amp is freaking cool.

Re: the X3 vs the X5 - I've got a big space, so the X3 was an easy choice.  Plus, I really like how bass produced by large drivers sounds.  A 15 inch driver, in particular, usually has a more effortless punchiness to it.  The tradeoff is that the X5 probably images better than the X3 as a narrower baffle almost always gives better soundstage and imaging.  But that's just speculation on my part as I've not heard the X5 yet.




AWESOME review, as always, Tyson! It's quite a feat to have 2 systems that are totally world class!

As you said, given the X3's being very close to what the Oticas produce, and after hearing what I'm hearing as my Oticas burn in... HOLY CRAP! I'm sure the X3's are outstanding!!! If I wasn't able to do the DIY route, or didn't want to spend the time, there's absolutely no doubt in my head I would have saved my pennies and bought a pair of X3/X5's! What you said about the room integration is spot on... I literally spent YEARS (unsuccessfully) trying to find best placement/sub settings to eliminate room modes. Going as far as trying to "unphase" the speakers with the sub to eliminate modes at different frequencies, PEQ up the wazoo - messed with it at least once weekly... Which, I suppose was nice to learn how to really integrate a sub properly. But with OB speakers, I plopped them down, and the first spot I put them there was nothing. Just solid tuneful bass all the way down. No major spikes/dips, nothing. Spent about 3 minutes integrating the sub, and I'm not sure I even touched it since. Unreal... I'm still shaking my head over it. OB is no doubt the best for "non-dedicated" rooms... and probably dedicated as well :lol: Regardless, super happy you're enjoying them! Once you hear "no box", it's all over...

And Clayton... well done! :thumb:

Haha, I feel you man, running box speakers in a difficult room is maddening!!  Even with EQ.  Even with unlimited messing around with placement.  Even with tons of room treatments.  Grrrr.  And then you drop in the OB speakers (after years of aggravation) and the bass issue is SOLVED.  SMH.  Yep, that's something I definitely went through too  :o


franSSS

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #23 on: 17 Dec 2021, 06:46 am »
Wauuuu!!! i really enjoyed your write up. :popcorn:

The comparisons between the gear used is a really nice touch.

As for Divorce.... Most men don't even realize their wives forced them years earlier into divorce. A large percentage of Woman are very very extremely patient when they are on their way out. All your money is only their money. Then they are not fair anymore. I have seen it so many times over the years. They are great at manipulation and playing the victim. I can write pages here about what i have seen. But it is not the place.

What gets me about this is how they play the poor victim for years and years to come while ruining the guys reputation.....

Never been married and will stay that way... at 56 life is super, go where i want eat what i want sleep where i want. and buy hifi gear what i want. :-)

mick wolfe

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #24 on: 17 Dec 2021, 05:20 pm »
Tyson....great review and overview of the Spatial's. One great point I took from your review was your statement in regard to high efficiency speakers. Here's where I'll give my old and long departed Spatial M2 Turbo's major props. The M2's were the most efficient speaker I'd ever purchased up to that point in my journey. Now couple that with the fact they weren't afraid to "boogie" opened an avenue to lot of music I'd been ignoring. In other words, all genres were now invited to the party. Today in my larger room anyway, high efficiency (HE as you say) speakers are my clear choice. They just produce a sense of ease and dynamic more akin to a live event. IOW, something I had been missing with inefficient "audiophile approved" speakers.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #25 on: 17 Dec 2021, 11:44 pm »
Wauuuu!!! i really enjoyed your write up. :popcorn:

The comparisons between the gear used is a really nice touch.

As for Divorce.... Most men don't even realize their wives forced them years earlier into divorce. A large percentage of Woman are very very extremely patient when they are on their way out. All your money is only their money. Then they are not fair anymore. I have seen it so many times over the years. They are great at manipulation and playing the victim. I can write pages here about what i have seen. But it is not the place.

What gets me about this is how they play the poor victim for years and years to come while ruining the guys reputation.....

Never been married and will stay that way... at 56 life is super, go where i want eat what i want sleep where i want. and buy hifi gear what i want. :-)

I heard on a podcast from a psychiatrist once where he was talking about the different forms that violence takes with men vs. women.  With men it tends to come out as physical violence, and with women it comes out as reputation destruction.  Obviously neither are good and should not be indulged in.   But I thought it was pretty interesting.

Tyson....great review and overview of the Spatial's. One great point I took from your review was your statement in regard to high efficiency speakers. Here's where I'll give my old and long departed Spatial M2 Turbo's major props. The M2's were the most efficient speaker I'd ever purchased up to that point in my journey. Now couple that with the fact they weren't afraid to "boogie" opened an avenue to lot of music I'd been ignoring. In other words, all genres were now invited to the party. Today in my larger room anyway, high efficiency (HE as you say) speakers are my clear choice. They just produce a sense of ease and dynamic more akin to a live event. IOW, something I had been missing with inefficient "audiophile approved" speakers.

Yes!!  That's why I had the Forte's for my box speakers before - there's a liveness and engagement that low efficiency speakers really struggle to replicate. 

radarnyc

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #26 on: 18 Dec 2021, 12:08 pm »
As for Divorce.... Most men don't even realize their wives forced them years earlier into divorce. A large percentage of Woman are very very extremely patient when they are on their way out. All your money is only their money. Then they are not fair anymore. I have seen it so many times over the years. They are great at manipulation and playing the victim. I can write pages here about what i have seen. But it is not the place.

What gets me about this is how they play the poor victim for years and years to come while ruining the guys reputation.....

Never been married and will stay that way... at 56 life is super, go where i want eat what i want sleep where i want. and buy hifi gear what i want. :-)
What a sad view of women. I'm glad that i don't feel that way about my wife, daughter, sister, and mother or any woman or human that I know. Enjoy your money

mkrawcz

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #27 on: 18 Dec 2021, 12:11 pm »
How about we keep this thread about the review of the Spatial Audio X3s and nothing else?

radarnyc

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #28 on: 18 Dec 2021, 12:32 pm »
How about we keep this thread about the review of the Spatial Audio X3s and nothing else?
I 99% agree with that but if someone posts something that is misogynistic (this case) or otherwise derogatory in a public forum or in conversation and no one calls them out, the perception if that their statements are okay. While I'm not the moral police, I did want to let him know that his statements are not okay with me and I stand by my words.

Mr. Big

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #29 on: 18 Dec 2021, 03:06 pm »
This is a hobby audio site, let's keep it that way. We all need to respect this site for what its purpose is.

foo_me

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #30 on: 18 Dec 2021, 04:26 pm »
I 99% agree with that but if someone posts something that is misogynistic (this case) or otherwise derogatory in a public forum or in conversation and no one calls them out, the perception if that their statements are okay. While I'm not the moral police, I did want to let him know that his statements are not okay with me and I stand by my words.

Love the review but also appreciate the callout and agree.

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #31 on: 18 Dec 2021, 04:38 pm »
Agreed.  Apologies for letting the thread derail.

hilde45

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #32 on: 18 Dec 2021, 04:41 pm »
I'm fascinated by the variety of different results Tyson got with the various tube amps, not least his ability to make a (relatively) more powerful tube amp work by changing the tubes.

If I were to go down the Spatial road, I'd be most interested in the AMT tweeter version, but since I've had problems with brightness in my current speaker's Be tweeter, I would want to be able to get that magic "air" without any harshness.

morganc

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #33 on: 18 Dec 2021, 04:52 pm »
I'm fascinated by the variety of different results Tyson got with the various tube amps, not least his ability to make a (relatively) more powerful tube amp work by changing the tubes.

If I were to go down the Spatial road, I'd be most interested in the AMT tweeter version, but since I've had problems with brightness in my current speaker's Be tweeter, I would want to be able to get that magic "air" without any harshness.

I’m super sensitive to brightness and harshness as well.  Mine has been tamed with a tube Pre and a few diffusion panels and a lot of burn in on the X-3s.  I have not heard the M series but have owned the X5 and X3. 

hilde45

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #34 on: 18 Dec 2021, 04:55 pm »
Good point, MorganC. For me, a tough question is, "Do I want a speaker that *must* have a very particular setup in order to sound acceptable or good?" I guess I'd like a speaker that sounds good more easily than that and then I can tweak to optimize.

mkrawcz

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #35 on: 18 Dec 2021, 05:00 pm »
My new years resolution is buying pair of X3s.

morganc

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #36 on: 18 Dec 2021, 05:12 pm »
Good point, MorganC. For me, a tough question is, "Do I want a speaker that *must* have a very particular setup in order to sound acceptable or good?" I guess I'd like a speaker that sounds good more easily than that and then I can tweak to optimize.

That’s not how I think about it.  I think of my entire system as a single entity and each piece contributes to the whole.  And IMHE every speaker I have ever heard sounds better with a tube Pre. So that’s my preference and style. 

One key I have learned on these forums is : I find people who like a similar sound that I do and the. Follow them.  I don’t have golden ears but I have great life long friends from this site that do!  And when I do what they do as far as system building goes, I love the outcome though I could not necessarily hear every tweak along the way. 

Having said that, my Spatials sound amazing even with a digital amp and no tubes…..the tubes just give it an extra hint of warm glow and I love the glow of the 6SN7 tubes. 

decooney

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #37 on: 18 Dec 2021, 05:27 pm »
Have any X5 or X3 owners here landed on a good midway power TUBE amp(s) in the 40-60w range, say re-issue Genelex Gold Lyon KT77 or warmish PSVANE KT88 output tubes?

Referring to NOT running a flatwatt 2A3 or 45 SET amp, and NOT running a higher power solid state amp. Looking to hear why a good 60W pentode amp with warmish input/driver and output tubes will NOT work well with X5s, essentially.  I design/build other AMT custom speakers as a hobby, and might demo some X5s is why I'm asking. Thanks in advance for your replies.   

hilde45

Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #38 on: 18 Dec 2021, 05:40 pm »
Good question decooney,

MorganC, I think I really do agree with you. What I was trying to say is that I'd prefer a speaker that does not require very, very specific setups to sound decent. Something where I can make various changes and it sounds good but in different ways.

I'm committed to tube pre, tube amps, r2r tube dac -- so those are all standard for me.

Right now, I have some speakers that only sound non-harsh if I do all the right things -- cables, tube pre, the right tubes, room treatments, etc.

abomwell

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Re: Tyson's Review of the Spatial Audio X3
« Reply #39 on: 18 Dec 2021, 06:58 pm »
From what I've read many recordings are harsh in the  2-3 kHz frequency range. The problem as I understand it is that our ears are not very sensitive to diffuse sounds (reflected sounds in concert halls for example) around 3kHz. But microphones pick up both the direct AND the diffuse sounds. Stereo loudspeakers which are in front of our listening positions pump out both those direct AND  diffuse recorded sounds. Our ears ARE sensitive to frontal (vs. diffuse) sounds  around the 3kHz range so recordings can sound unnaturally bright. A psycho-acoustical dip centered at 3 kHz, -4.2dB deep and 1 kHz wide can offset that harshness. If you have EQ capabilities, via Roon for example, you can give that dip a try and see if you like it. It's a lot cheaper than switching amplifiers :)