[Desertpilot]

It's amazing what just a few inches will do!  I had my left speaker 2 feet from my left wall (wall to the edge of the speaker).  Clayton has an owners' manual now and he advocates no less than 18 inches from the sidewall to the edge of the speaker.  So I tried it.  Back and forth between 24 inches and 18 inches.  Of course, I had to keep shifting the right speaker so it was symmetrical.  I played large orchestral music (using the stereo, 2.0, channel versions).  At 24 inches, the center sounded congested.  At 18 inches, the center sounded thin.  After about three moves, I decided, 'what the heck' and split the difference to 21 inches.  Whoa!  Huge difference.  The center sounds wonderful and the full orchestra, choir, and soloists are all spread out behind the speakers correctly.  Today, with the speakers still at the 21 inch mark, I played a variety of music and again, it all sounds wonderful.  Remember, my speakers are 5 feet from the front wall.

Also today, I played a jazz track I know very well.  Deep bass, piano and drums.  I was interested in decay, smearing, and boominess.  All three instruments were crisp and sounded great.  No issues that I could hear.  I do have room treatments, which I am sure helped.  The album is "McCoy Tyner with Stanley Clarke & Al Foster."  I have the SACD 2.0 version.  Original release date is 2,000.  Stream it.  The specific track that will "rock" you and your system is the last track:  "I Want to Tell You 'Bout That".  There are two versions of the same track.  I like the last one the best.

I am sooooo enjoying the X3s.

Marcus

[abomwell]

Very interesting, Marcus! I'm chomping at the bit to get my X5's!
Do you think the changes you heard were more influenced by the speakers' proximity to each other rather than to the side walls?

Al

[Desertpilot]

Very interesting, Marcus! I'm chomping at the bit to get my X5's!
Do you think the changes you heard were more influenced by the speakers' proximity to each other rather than to the side walls?

Al

That's possible.  6 inches either side means 1 foot more distance between speakers.  But, I did have them 18 inches from side wall which means 2 feet more distance between speakers.  So, yes, very possible I was experiencing changes relative to distance between speakers rather than the side wall.  I suppose, if Clayton says 18 inch minimum  from side wall, then the side wall becomes less of an issue if you are beyond 18 inches.  The speakers sound great wherever I put them.  But, now I am making small adjustments to try and find that "sweet" spot.

Marcus

[Chewbacca]

Very interesting, Marcus! I'm chomping at the bit to get my X5's!
Do you think the changes you heard were more influenced by the speakers' proximity to each other rather than to the side walls?

Al

I'd agree with this. Personally I found that an equilateral triangle has always served me the best, with possibly about an additional 10% of length to the listening position.

i.e. my speakers are 8' apart tweeter to tweeter, and I found about 8' to 9' from ear to tweeter to be the best... leaning more on the side of the 8' length.

This will obviously change how much toe in you'd want as well. As with everything in this hobby it's Denial and Error.... No, Wait...

[abomwell]

My Dutch and Dutch 8C's require at least 1 foot clearance from side walls to allow the cancellation effect (from the out-of-phase back wave of the mid-range drivers) to function properly. Perhaps the 18" minimum is required for that purpose as well.

Al

[Chewbacca]

My Dutch and Dutch 8C's require at least 1 foot clearance from side walls to allow the cancellation effect (from the out-of-phase back wave of the mid-range drivers) to function properly. Perhaps the 18" minimum is required for that purpose as well.

Al

No doubt this is probably the case. My statement was just a more "in general" with systems. I'm sure the 18" minimum from the side walls will create the best sound

[abomwell]

Do you find that the amount of toe-in affects treble brightness with AMT tweeters?

Al

[Desertpilot]

I'd agree with this. Personally I found that an equilateral triangle has always served me the best, with possibly about an additional 10% of length to the listening position.

i.e. my speakers are 8' apart tweeter to tweeter, and I found about 8' to 9' from ear to tweeter to be the best... leaning more on the side of the 8' length.

This will obviously change how much toe in you'd want as well. As with everything in this hobby it's Denial and Error.... No, Wait...

Thank you for joining the conversation!  My equilateral triangle is not so equal.  Currently 9 feet between speakers (mid baffle to mid baffle) and 10 feet from each speaker to the MLP.  Toe-in is modest.  I measure each side of the speaker to the front wall.  There is a 2 inch difference from one side to the other.  I make sure the other speaker has an equal 2 inch difference side to side.  Looking at the speakers, I would say 10 to 15 degrees.  I've tried a variety of toe-in positions and this works best for me.

Denial and Error...hahaha.  So true.  I really want to be done with speaker positioning.

Marcus

[Desertpilot]

Do you find that the amount of toe-in affects treble brightness with AMT tweeters?

Al

I have not had this experience, Al.  While they may sound "bright" initially, over time I've found they blend well with the mid range and subwoofer.  Or, maybe it was my hearing that changed (LOL).  Even though the AMT utilizes a wave guide, it does not sound like a "horn" tweeter.  Not at all.  In any event, I would not change from the AMT.  Horns, violin, piano all sound like they are in your listening space playing in front of you.  Superb reproduction.  No listening fatigue at all.  I could, and I generally do, listen to music all day long (nice being retired).  Well, except for posting here on AudioCircle.

I do think the diffusion panel behind the speaker helps.

Marcus

[abomwell]

Thanks, Marcus. That's all good to know. I'm especially happy to hear that the tonality of the instruments, in your room, have a characteristic sound. As I've aged into geezerhood I find I'm particular sensitive to harshness in the 3kHz range affecting violins in particular. I almost always have to EQ down that frequency area on every loudspeaker I have owned. It would be nice not to have to do that with the X5's.

Al

Al

[Desertpilot]

Thanks, Marcus. That's all good to know. I'm especially happy to hear that the tonality of the instruments, in your room, have a characteristic sound. As I've aged into geezerhood I find I'm particular sensitive to harshness in the 3kHz range affecting violins in particular. I almost always have to EQ down that frequency area on every loudspeaker I have owned. It would be nice not to have to do that with the X5's.

Al

Al

LOL.  Talk about geezerhood, I'm 70.  You should not feel any sensitivity to violins.  Horns, on the other hand, can sound like a trumpet is in your face.

Marcus

[abomwell]

As a brass player I'll take trumpets vs.
violins in my face any day. 😂

Thanks!
Al

[abomwell]

I can't find the owner's manual on line. Is it included in the speaker box?

Al

[TomS]

I can't find the owner's manual on line. Is it included in the speaker box?

Al

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52b20c42e4b07f099f85e8dd/t/60b90516c4eb08458a7bfaad/1622738198654/X+Series-a.pdf

[abomwell]

Many thanks, Tom!

Al

[Desertpilot]

I can't find the owner's manual on line. Is it included in the speaker box?

Al

Al.  It is not included in the speaker box.  At least not in mine.  Pay attention to the warning to shut off the subwoofer amplifier before shutting off your system amplifier.  I can attest to the subwoofers emitting a loud HOWL type sound.  Clayton says not harmful but it is quite annoying.  Luckily, my amp goes in to standby mode so I just leave it on 24/7.

Marcus

[abomwell]

Thanks, Marcus. I'll need to shut off my amp after listening as it's a tube amp. I purchased a Bob Carver Crimson 275.

Al
 

[MichaelHiFi]

OK so I ordered the X3's at "The Show" this past weekend.

Now, when I attended audio shows, I've always appreciated the Emerald Speaker rooms and then of course Spatial. I built a pair of GR-Research Super V's and my wife's personal favorite speaker was the LS6's.

So I'm looking forward to see what the X3's can do in a room that was just built, and in Cedar City, Utah. Unfortunately, the builder is an idiot and screwed the audio room (sorry, still pissed off) but I'm hopeful they will sound brilliant.

I currently live in Las Vegas (hey desert pilot). Will they better my Usher Tower XL's?

I've got a Kinki Studio M3 integrated, a BMC S1 amp, Nord One, and an AS1200 class D to play with. Source is a Holo May KTE and a Rega P10.

I have a concern about the size of the X3 vs my 15 X 19 room. Gentlemen from Spatial told me the X3 is the appropriate speaker for my room. Thankful for a return policy.

WTF Morgan, how did we end up with the same speakers.... AGAIN! (This guy is the best)

[Desertpilot]

OK so I ordered the X3's at "The Show" this past weekend.

Now, when I attended audio shows, I've always appreciated the Emerald Speaker rooms and then of course Spatial. I built a pair of GR-Research Super V's and my wife's personal favorite speaker was the LS6's.

So I'm looking forward to see what the X3's can do in a room that was just built, and in Cedar City, Utah. Unfortunately, the builder is an idiot and screwed the audio room (sorry, still pissed off) but I'm hopeful they will sound brilliant.

I currently live in Las Vegas (hey desert pilot). Will they better my Usher Tower XL's?

I've got a Kinki Studio M3 integrated, a BMC S1 amp, Nord One, and an AS1200 class D to play with. Source is a Holo May KTE and a Rega P10.

I have a concern about the size of the X3 vs my 15 X 19 room. Gentlemen from Spatial told me the X3 is the appropriate speaker for my room. Thankful for a return policy.

WTF Morgan, how did we end up with the same speakers.... AGAIN! (This guy is the best)

Hey there Michael.  Welcome to Spatial Audio and the X3s.  Glad to hear from another Vegas member.  Let me know if you want to visit for a music fest and delicious wine.

Marcus

[morganc]

OK so I ordered the X3's at "The Show" this past weekend.

Now, when I attended audio shows, I've always appreciated the Emerald Speaker rooms and then of course Spatial. I built a pair of GR-Research Super V's and my wife's personal favorite speaker was the LS6's.

So I'm looking forward to see what the X3's can do in a room that was just built, and in Cedar City, Utah. Unfortunately, the builder is an idiot and screwed the audio room (sorry, still pissed off) but I'm hopeful they will sound brilliant.

I currently live in Las Vegas (hey desert pilot). Will they better my Usher Tower XL's?

I've got a Kinki Studio M3 integrated, a BMC S1 amp, Nord One, and an AS1200 class D to play with. Source is a Holo May KTE and a Rega P10.

I have a concern about the size of the X3 vs my 15 X 19 room. Gentlemen from Spatial told me the X3 is the appropriate speaker for my room. Thankful for a return policy.

WTF Morgan, how did we end up with the same speakers.... AGAIN! (This guy is the best)

Hey there old friend. Sure miss you guys!
I’ve got the X-5’s and went a bit overboard with dual GR Research Servos (good local deal and I’m still single so why not?)
Let’s catch up sometime.  Can’t wait to see and hopefully hear your new rig!