Not a noob, but what the hell is this??

thunderbrick · « **on:** 17 Sep 2012, 04:39 pm »

Just got handed a massive project, building a student-designed (www.solardecathlon.org)solar house from the ground up. And I haven't even seen the plans yet.

There will be home automation system for audio/video that incorporates http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=mavplus88a&subtype=134&s=4.

1. The house is 1,000 sqft. Is this overkill? What the hell does it do?
2. I THINK their designs call for speakers in most rooms, but I may simply suggest two high-quality systems, one for movies/sound and one for the office.

Any suggestions for a small 5.1 player/amp combo? I am thinking understated, easy-to-use systems. Geeks won't like it, but geezers might.

No suggestions are off the table. Except, of course, any that BobinStLouis make.

EDIT: Open to streaming, etc. I won't know how to do it but the students will.

bpape · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 04:48 pm »

Depends on what they want to do. Seems like a lot for 1000 sq ft and only for analog audio but its their project. It simply allows the choice of switching any one of 12 sources to any one of 8 outputs (read room systems.). So they'd need a system in each room if all they're doing is switching low level analog audio.

Bryan

thunderbrick · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 05:19 pm »

Thanks! That's a big start.

Seems awfully complicated for such a small project.

All opinions welcome!

bpape · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 05:31 pm »

The big thing is to understand their goals. Do they just want any source in any room but only one at a time? Do they want to have source 1 feeding rooms 2 and 3 either the same or different things?

If they never want 2 different audio sources going at the same time, using a distribution amp with volume controls in each room would be a much better and cheaper option.

Bryan

thunderbrick · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 05:44 pm »

Thanks! What DA might you recommend?

I'd prefer two understated systems like the B&O stuff of yore............is there a newer version of that, maybe from NAD or Marantz?

Scott F. · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 06:09 pm »

Bob,

I was thinking more on the line of a Sonos system.
http://www.sonos.com/system

Rather that spending $1600 on a switcher where you still need a front end and either a distributive amp or individual amps, go completely wireless with a Sonos. In the end, it should be considerably less expensive after you take wiring labor into account.

....just my $.02

JLM · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 06:14 pm »

For a solar powered house, I'd be going small, simple, and above all energy efficient. As mentioned, separate systems using NuForce icon and Mac computers pieces would click my boxes on those accounts. Avoid bigger screens.

Is there a budget? Using a computer would help there too (doing double duty). And a big monitor would kill three birds with one stone (like a 27 inch iMac).

electricbear · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 08:22 pm »

I'm with Scott on this one. Sonos. Each room able to do its own thing, able to stream music, geeks love it but it's simple to use.
They use digital amps so should be fairly efficient to run.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Sep 2012, 08:24 pm »

JLM and ScottF, thanks for the help. I agree on both points. I am trying to convince the students to go with the Maggie wall mounts or similar.

Still looking for a small all-in-one CD/DVD/5.1 power source to feed the whole shebang.

TomS · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 12:58 am »

There is someone here on AC that lives totally off the grid, so it might be worth a little searching to find him and see what he recommends.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 01:10 am »

Yeah, it's JLM and he has already offered help. This won't be an off-grid house; more of an ultra-efficient, full-featured home that just happens to be solar.

My question is more about a flexible, minimalist audio/video design that doesn't need all kinds of conduit run through the walls or won't need a lot of retrofitting when it comes to updating. Maybe the Sonos as ScottF. and others have recommended, or even small Maggies.

Think the all-in-one Beomasters of decades past that fit nicely into a contemporary decor. No massive mid-fi AVRs from BB. Maybe NAD, Rotel, Marantz, or ?

Bose? Fuggeddaboutit!

satfrat · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 01:49 am »

From the latest Sound&Vision issue; Definitive Technology SonoCinema XTR Soundbar. Fully powered 5.1 Soundbar with wireless bluetooth subwoofer. 3 1" tweeters, 6 3.5" mid.bass woofers, and an 8" long throw driver in the sub. Class D 200 watts to 9 channels in the soundbar, Class D 250 watts in the sub. Digital sound processing w/Dolby True HD & DTS HD along with Dolby ProLogic 2 & Dolby Digital Plus, and SSA Immersion Technologies. 3 HDMI in/1 HDMI out., one RCA analog in, 1 Toslink in, and a USB for firmware uploads only. 30hz-30khz

It's easy-peasy setup for A/V.

Cheers,
Robin

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 03:13 am »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 18 Sep 2012, 01:10 am

Yeah, it's JLM and he has already offered help. This won't be an off-grid house; more of an ultra-efficient, full-featured home that just happens to be solar.

I'm off the wall, out of the main stream, and just plain out of it, but still on the grid (to the tune of $180 last month

). But I've looked into geo-thermal (when we built 8 years ago), PV solar (still might), even wind power (too long of payback).

Still, as ultra efficient I'd look towards NuForce icon stuff for stereo. Check out NAD, Marantz, Denon for compact 5.1 all-in-ones. I'd avoid in-wall speakers as they'll cut into exterior wall insulation values and be less flexible in this design by committee (I'd guess too many cooks in the kitchen already). Amphion styles right into modern design (I'd make speaker selection based on their interior design, doesn't have to be B*se).

thunderbrick · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 03:22 am »

I wish I could justify geothermal (our campus is moving to it in a big way), but I just paid off the divorce and don't want to send my cash flow into a nose-dive again. If I were building new (and were younger) I'd go geothermal in a heartbeat. I'd go geothermal before I'd go solar (I know, blasphemy). Quicker payback, I think.

I'm not too concerned about power usage. During the 9-day event it'll only be used for a few hours, but I am more concerned about it being unobtrusive. You know, like some MBL speakers.

In-wall speakers aren't going to be an issue. Such a small part of the envelope, percentage wise and we're using 6" Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs) with very little chance for air movement. What I don't want is an investment in pre-wired walls that become useless when the technology changes. And the 12 in/8 out boat anchor for such a small area.

I want good sound that doesn't overwhelm the resident by being everywhere.

CSI · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 02:44 pm »

The Sonos approach is excellent but you might want to take another look at flush mount speakers. One thousand square feet is going to fill up fast with furniture and if the original plan is followed (speakers in most rooms) you are going to end up with a lot of small box speakers that will be hard to integrate with the rest of the decor. Triad, for one, makes good sounding in-walls that are essentially small box speakers using high quality European drivers in boxes that disappear into the walls or ceiling. Unless the client is a certified audiophile the "two speakers carefully set up away from the walls" approach may be hard to sell.

Atlplasma · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 02:54 pm »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 18 Sep 2012, 03:22 am

I wish I could justify geothermal (our campus is moving to it in a big way), but I just paid off the divorce and don't want to send my cash flow into a nose-dive again. If I were building new (and were younger) I'd go geothermal in a heartbeat. I'd go geothermal before I'd go solar (I know, blasphemy). Quicker payback, I think.

I'm not too concerned about power usage. During the 9-day event it'll only be used for a few hours, but I am more concerned about it being unobtrusive. You know, like some MBL speakers.

In-wall speakers aren't going to be an issue. Such a small part of the envelope, percentage wise and we're using 6" Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs) with very little chance for air movement. What I don't want is an investment in pre-wired walls that become useless when the technology changes. And the 12 in/8 out boat anchor for such a small area.

I want good sound that doesn't overwhelm the resident by being everywhere.

I'm preparing to build a new house and have considered geothermal, but my research suggests that these systems can be a maintenance headache. The cafe up the street just replaced the ground-source pump on their five-year old system to the tune of $5K. I'm leaning toward split-mini systems, which should work well in my client (plus, the manufacturing facility is just a couple of counties over.)

thunderbrick · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 03:15 pm »

Yeah, they use (I've heard) a scroll pump for the compressor. Expensive to replace, but should last a long time. A co-worker has a new house on geothermal that is almost double the size of mine, and his utility bills is roughly half what mine is. And he has kids, I'm an old fart.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 03:20 pm »

Quote from: CSI on 18 Sep 2012, 02:44 pm

The Sonos approach is excellent but you might want to take another look at flush mount speakers. One thousand square feet is going to fill up fast with furniture and if the original plan is followed (speakers in most rooms) you are going to end up with a lot of small box speakers that will be hard to integrate with the rest of the decor. Triad, for one, makes good sounding in-walls that are essentially small box speakers using high quality European drivers in boxes that disappear into the walls or ceiling. Unless the client is a certified audiophile the "two speakers carefully set up away from the walls" approach may be hard to sell.

Agreed, but built-in speakers require pre-installation of conduit and boxes before the house is assembled. The SIPs will have to be ordered that way or else we have to use one of those 6' long flexible drill bits to route any in-wall speaker wire.
Right now they see the speakers in a partial drop-ceiling "cloud", but I don't like sound coming from right over my head. Reminds me of my first wife standing over me while I scrubbed the toilets.

Audiophile? Maybe not. Better than mass-market? If at all possible.

JLM · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 04:04 pm »

We did use some SIP panels for open ceilings (electricans hate them).

Minuses for geothermal:
1. Extra $10,000 for equipment
2. Recommended extra $10,000 for additional insulation package
3. Only designed to function down to 20 degrees, below that switches to the most inefficient heating mode known (fan assisted electric resistance) - that just irked the crap out of me
4. Thermal plume effects (from day one, the efficiency goes down as the earth surrounding the pipe "acclamate" to the pipe temperature.

But to stay with the topic, IMO the whole energy efficiency concept should be to reduce consumption/environmental impact for both building and operating the home. LEED certification applies this to various building types.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 07:44 pm »

Agreed on reducing consumption for operating the home. Mortgage costs should remain the same; utilities won't, so let's concentrate on reducing usage. But I imagine they'll have to pry the 300B monoblocks from the cold, dead hands of many an audiophile!

This is a joke, guys! Let's not get back into renting vs. owning, regulations, conspiracies, and DBT, OK?