AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Topic started by: MaxCast on 16 Oct 2013, 03:29 pm
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AXPONA - 2014 In Chicago
April 25-27, 2014
Audio Expo North America
http://www.axpona.com/
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Which AC members & Manufacturers are going?
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I will be there. Great seeing so many ACers there last yr.
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We will be there.
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Ugh, don't want to think about shows just yet ...
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Ugh, don't want to think about shows just yet ...
So you're not going?
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So you're not going?
Answering that question would require thinking about the show :?
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Ugh, don't want to think about shows just yet ...
Exactly! And give you plenty of time to prepare.
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Slow your roll JT :lol:
I plan on being there again. Had fun this year, though it's new hotel/venue next year.....so fingers crossed
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hopefully one with a better fire alarm system :o
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I plan on being there Saturday for sure maybe Sunday too.
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Hello.
I'm considering going to AXPONA this year. I'm a complete newbie though. I have never attended an event like this before. Does anyone have sage advice for the uninitiated? [Hell, even outrageous advice would be appreciated at this point.]
Since AXPONA is a three day event:
Do most folks stay for all three days or is this overkill?
What to do if my wife wants to come along to see Chicago (but completely lacks interest in anything to do with any HiFi over $100.00)?
Do most folks stay at the event hotel (convenience), or is it better and quieter to seek out a nearby hotel (cheaper)?
What should I bring (other than a truckload of cash and all of my credit cards)?
H E L P!!!
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Hello.
I'm considering going to AXPONA this year. I'm a complete newbie though. I have never attended an event like this before. Does anyone have sage advice for the uninitiated? [Hell, even outrageous advice would be appreciated at this point.]
Since AXPONA is a three day event:
Do most folks stay for all three days or is this overkill?
What to do if my wife wants to come along to see Chicago (but completely lacks interest in anything to do with any HiFi over $100.00)?
Do most folks stay at the event hotel (convenience), or is it better and quieter to seek out a nearby hotel (cheaper)?
What should I bring (other than a truckload of cash and all of my credit cards)?
H E L P!!!
Three days is a lot. But well worth it if you can swing the costs/time. It is nice to stay at the show venue so you can go to your room and chill for an hour or so. I believe Chicago is about a half hour ride to really see Chicago so you could get a hotel closer to the city if that is the direction you will be headed. If you go all three days with Betty in tow, you should be able to split it up by doing the show for half a day then devote the second half to the city and her. Saturday night and Sunday are considered best for best sound. It takes a day and a half for them to get the system sounding it's best.
Sage advise: Make a list by floor of vendors you want to hear. Start at the top floor and work down using the stairs. Hit the your must hear vendors twice. Bring a camera and something to take notes with. You will hear new music and want to make a note.
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If your wife wants to check out Chicago, you may be better off getting a hotel closer to the city.
Sound is usually better on Saturday and Sunday, but least crowds on Friday.
Making a list of gear you want to see floor-by-floor is a good idea.
Also be sure to bring music that you are familiar with and which nicely highlights aspects of music that are most important to you. I bring both CDs and vinyl. You won't always be able to put this music on, but often there is that option.
I'm sure that ACers will also be getting together for lunch/dinner/drinks over the course of the three days. I had a great time meeting so many AC folks last year. If this appeals to you, make sure you factor that in when coordinating with your wife.
And be aware that it is often possible to get great deals on gear demo'd at the show if you are ready to pull the trigger.
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Triode Wire Labs will providing the entire cable loom and teaming up with Volti Audio in Room 320...
This will be the global debut of Triode Wire Labs interconnects and maybe a few more "wire" surprises!
Looking forward to some deep-dish pie and meeting some AC'rs in the Windy City! :thumb:
Cheers,
Pete
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Triode Wire Labs will providing the entire cable loom and teaming up with Volti Audio in Room 826...
This will be the global debut of Triode Wire Labs interconnects and maybe a few more "wire" surprises!
Looking forward to some deep-dish pie and meeting some AC'rs in the Windy City! :thumb:
Cheers,
Pete
Oh the Volti sounded great last yr. Look forward to hearing your cables with that gear.
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We will be showing Sound Lab, Atma-Sphere, and much more in the Rosemont 4 room on the third floor.
Here is a recent photo of our new demo room nearing completion. The sound traps and enclosures for them are not yet in place.
(http://www.essentialaudio.com/humor/20140117_track.jpg)
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Look forward to that room Brian. Love the sound of those Atma amps.
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I will be going on Friday April 25th. Decided to take a day off from work and avoid the weekend crush. Plus, I can't resist the allure of hearing all these great sound systems on the first day of the show.....before they have all the room issues resolved. :duh:
Anyway, I am looking forward to meeting some ACers at the show if you'll be there on Friday.
Best, -dB
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Right now my wife and I will come over Friday AM. Probably will stay through Sunday morning depending on how the teenagers get along w/o adult supervision. :duel:
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FYI on the Westin group rates for Axpona:
" The Westin O'Hare - This group block is currently sold out. Please visit www.westinohare.com or call 888-627-8517 to book the best available rate. You may also inquire with the hotel directly by emailing obdulia.lozano@westin.com to see if additional rooms are available at the group rate. "
I booked across the parking lot at the Marriott. The Westin has $15 event parking for attendees but the Marriott charges $24 per day for parking. While you can walk across the parking lot it will cost you more to park at the Marriott but the weekend rate is $119 before taxes and parking.
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Yippee! It's official--I'm going to attend AXPONA starting Friday (early) afternoon through Sunday afternoon.
My wife will not accompany me. She made me promise I would not buy speakers while I am there. This doesn't mean I can't buy speakers in the future--just not in April. There was no mention of any restrictions on other equipment though. :icon_twisted:
There must be oodles of cables, connectors, tweaks, etc. for sale at events like this. Are these usually discounted vs regular pricing?
It's two months out and I'm grinning like an idiot. :D
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My wife and I are thinking about getting there on Friday and leaving Sunday. Thanks for the heads up on the Marriott Pete!
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I'm at the Westin Friday to Sunday and really looking forward to seeing a few AC folks again.
I need new speakers and it's on my birthday 8)
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Turns out I have tickets to see Horse Feathers on the Saturday of AXPONA. So it's be great to get together with ACers on Friday night.
And Horse Feathers is a great acoustic group playing in a nice small venue (Old Town School), if anyone wants to see some music.
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I'll be there with a few friends. We are going to see the Twins play the Sox during the week.
Best,
Matt
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Go Sox! I live near US Cellular Field. Can point you to fun spots nearby
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Go Sox! I live near US Cellular Field. Can point you to fun spots nearby
That'd be great!!
I've only been to the airport coming back from the Marines….. So i have no idea where to go or what to do.
Should be fun :thumb:
Best,
Matt
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That'd be great!!
I've only been to the airport coming back from the Marines….. So i have no idea where to go or what to do.
Should be fun :thumb:
Best,
Matt
Great, shoot me a PM when we are closer to AXPONA. Happy to provide Chicago advice to any visiting ACers.
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I'm sure you all have gotten the emails, but a 3 day pass is $75 at the door, $50 online, and the pre-sale (by midnight tonight) price is $35. I got mine by also adding the code AXP54C (from an Audiogon email) which reduced the price to $29.50.
By the way, I just booked (through Hotels.com) the Marriott across the street (thanks Pete) and was able to get wifi and parking included for $134 (i.e same $15/night as Westin).
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I'm going and it will not only be my first AXPONA but my first audio show ever!! Only going to go on Friday and had a question about the parking for those that have drove down in the past. Can you park at the hotel or is that only for guest of the hotel only? Thank you.
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I'm going and it will not only be my first AXPONA but my first audio show ever!! Only going to go on Friday and had a question about the parking for those that have drove down in the past. Can you park at the hotel or is that only for guest of the hotel only? Thank you.
The Axpona website says special pricing for parking at the hotel is $15 for attendees and exhibitors.
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There is also pretty cheap public parking by the Blue Line stop 0.4 mi away. 8 min walk
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I got my tickets last night before the price increase. Thanks!
Randy
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Room 344
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Room 344
Nice! I look forward to meeting you and checking out your speakers. See you there.
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Right around the corner now guys, please ensure to take lots of pics and share with those less unfortunate not being able to make it. :)
I was specifically interested in hearing the German Physiks Emperor MKII's, we are talking some crazy coin, the room alone is suppose to be over a Mil set-up :scratch: - so anyone with video experience would be appreciated.
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We have a cracker of a room shaping up in 432
Vapor Audio
Purity Audio Design
Lampizator
Verastarr
Along with reps for all companies in attendance!
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We have a cracker of a room shaping up in 432
Vapor Audio
Purity Audio Design
Lampizator
Verastarr
Along with reps for all companies in attendance!
Looks like a helluva combo. So much that I have wanted to listen to in the same place!
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Looks like a helluva combo. So much that I have wanted to listen to in the same place!
Bring a cooler and stay awhile then :lol:
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Bring a cooler and stay awhile then :lol:
That is a helluva good plan.
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That is a helluva good plan.
Even better if you're planning to share! We can do speaker swapping after hours, but don't plan to touch anything during the day.
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Even better if you're planning to share! We can do speaker swapping after hours, but don't plan to touch anything during the day.
...as long as I get to touch the cooler (the better to pass them out).
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We have a cracker of a room shaping up in 432
Vapor Audio
Purity Audio Design
Lampizator
Verastarr
Along with reps for all companies in attendance!
Nice!!! Who is rep for Lampi? Fred or Rob maybe? Ill be there.
Jason
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Nice! I look forward to meeting you and checking out your speakers. See you there.
I'll look out for a Mr Esseguie. :wink:
Hope we have a great show at the new venue.
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Nice!!! Who is rep for Lampi? Fred or Rob maybe? Ill be there.
Jason
Both Rob and myself will be there for LampizatOr. Those of you attending should definitely make a point of stopping in--I suspect our respective wares are going to gel *really* well together!
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Triode Wire Labs will providing the entire cable loom and teaming up with Volti Audio in Room 320...
This will be the global debut of Triode Wire Labs interconnects and maybe a few more "wire" surprises!
Looking forward to some deep-dish pie and meeting some AC'rs in the Windy City! :thumb:
Cheers,
Pete
Some additional info...
(http://www.voltiaudio.com/images/newsimages6/axpona2014system.jpg)
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Both Rob and myself will be there for LampizatOr. Those of you attending should definitely make a point of stopping in--I suspect our respective wares are going to gel *really* well together!
Fred, will there be a Lampi 6 there? I'd like to hear the difference to my 4.
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Probably not. We are planning to have a Level 7 dac which we debuted in Vegas in January and a level 5 as a backup in case the FEDEX fairy isn't kind.
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Hi Guys,
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the show. Park in the main lot and get your ticket validated at any restaurant. I do it all the time and it has always worked. Shhhhhhh!
Thanks,
Jack
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Hi Guys,
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the show. Park in the main lot and get your ticket validated at any restaurant. I do it all the time and it has always worked. Shhhhhhh!
Thanks,
Jack
Hi Jack,
I'm planning to drive from NYC to the Westin. This will be my first time at AXPONA Chicago. So, if I get the parking ticket validated at a restaurant I won't have to pay the $15 every day? Thanks.
Cheers,
Paul Mah
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Paul, there is also a cheap public parking lot just north of the Blue Line Rosemont stop. Don't think it is too far from the Westin. A 5 min walk from last year's hotel.
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Paul,
That's what I do every time I eat on Rosemont. There are several bars and restaurants in the outdoor plaza including Hoffbrau Haus, tavern on the park, Fogo de chao, Etc. I go there all the time and always he parking validated for no charge. Not sure it works for overnight parking but roscoes suggestionifht be a safer bet.
Thanks
Jack
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Thanks Roscoe and Jack. I'm not staying at the Westin but have a reservation at the Motel 6 in Schiller Park (much cheaper). Parking will be during show hours and dinner based on your (shhhh) non info. :D Hope to see you guys there and perhaps grab lunch together on one of the show days.
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It will be good to see you again Paul.
Should we invite "I've bought my last system" Jeff C? :icon_twisted:
cheers,
AJ
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It will be good to see you again Paul.
Should we invite "I've bought my last system" Jeff C? :icon_twisted:
cheers,
AJ
Nah, he's in snob territory now. :D Want to grab a meal during one of the show days?
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I am driving up for all 3 days of the show, staying at the Westin. I hope to meet up again with Jack Man, Roscoeiii, Tom S. All were very cool and fun to hang out with.
Troy
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I am driving up for all 3 days of the show, staying at the Westin. I hope to meet up again with Jack Man, Roscoeiii, Tom S. All were very cool and fun to hang out with.
Troy
Heck yeah. Hope to see you there. Though I have concert tix for Sat night, so nighttime hanging will be Fri only for me.
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I wish I could make it. Jack and Roscoe, if you don't mind, check out Dan Modwright and his modified Sony HAP-Z1ES. Give us a report back please.
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I wish I could make it. Jack and Roscoe, if you don't mind, check out Dan Modwright and his modified Sony HAP-Z1ES. Give us a report back please.
Tom,
Randy (rklein) bought Dan's show model so I will be picking it up and bringing it home. I will listen to it before giving to Randy (payback is a b***, he's had my Bent TAP and cables for close to a year). :) I am also getting Vinnie's mod 3 (likely after Axpona) so the fun will begin.
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Tom,
Randy (rklein) bought Dan's show model so I will be picking it up and bringing it home. I will listen to it before giving to Randy (payback is a b***, he's had my Bent TAP and cables for close to a year). :) I am also getting Vinnie's mod 3 (likely after Axpona) so the fun will begin.
Sounds good. :thumb:
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A couple items of interest for AXPONA on Friday, April 25th. I plan to be there all day on Friday and hope to meet other AC members. If you see me in the hall(s), stop me and say hello. Here's why:
1. I am going to be doing my own little in-person AC Karma event. I'm bringing a bag of CDs and would like to come home without them. I am giving them away to AC members (only) as a way to say thanks for all of your kindnesses and advice. They're all good CDs in good-to-excellent shape, but I don't want to go through the hassle of selling them. Besides, some of these are DVD-A's and DualDiscs -- no one but audio-phools know what to do with those anyway. :lol:
Be forewarned: I have eclectic taste in music, so these discs are all over the map, genre-wise. No matter who you are, there should be something of interest for you.....and hey, the price is right.
2. I am bringing along some brochures to do some awareness-raising about a charity organization that is near-&-dear to my heart: Little Kids Rock. They have "branches" in multiple cities throughout the US. Their mission: provide free instruments and lessons to underprivileged and inner-city youth. I went to an event in NYC last year and the pride/joy on the faces of the kids was a sight to behold. Truly touching.
Note: I am doing awareness-raising, not fund-raising. I don't want anyone to avoid me because they think I will hit them up for money/time/their girlfriend's phone number. I'll have some 4x8" cards for people interested in learning more, but that's it. I just want people to know about an organization that is bringing the joy of music performance to those who have little other access to same. And for you local folks, there is a Chicago chapter that is doing some great things in our "little urban paradise on the Lake".
Oh, and no long-winded sales pitches from me either...even if I had one (I don't). I am at AXPONA to listen to new gear, just like everyone else.
Little Kids Rock website: www.littlekidsrock.org (http://www.littlekidsrock.org)
Thanks for reading. I am looking forward to meeting more AC folks on Friday.
-dB
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I'll look out for a Mr Esseguie. :wink:
Hope we have a great show at the new venue.
AJ,
Which speakers do you plan on showing at Axpona? Enjoyed your newer floor standers at Cap Audio Fest last year, but only had enough time for a short listen.
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dburna,
Will you have a name tag with that moniker? I hope to see some AC people too. I'll be wearing a press pass with my real name.
Cheers,
Paul Mah
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dburna,
Will you have a name tag with that moniker? I hope to see some AC people too. I'll be wearing a press pass with my real name.
Cheers,
Paul Mah
If I don't have one, I am going to create one. Hope to see you there.
Regards,
Dave Burna
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Yes there will be name tags. Here's hoping folks put their AC names on theirs.
Hope to see many of y'all there. Will be up for hanging out Friday night. But I am out on Saturday night. I have tickets to see 2 concerts that night!
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Yes there will be name tags. Here's hoping folks put their AC names on theirs.
Hope to see many of y'all there. Will be up for hanging out Friday night. But I am out on Saturday night. I have tickets to see 2 concerts that night!
Depending on what type of concerts, you mgiht consider hearing protection using the ETY's. (http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ETY-Plugs-Protection-Earplugs/dp/B0044DEESS) They're nice as they reduce the volume -12dB which is nice for rock concerts but you don't loose the experience. Oh, and they're cost effective. ;)
Love,
mom
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Depending on what type of concerts, you mgiht consider hearing protection using the ETY's. (http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ETY-Plugs-Protection-Earplugs/dp/B0044DEESS) They're nice as they reduce the volume -12dB which is nice for rock concerts but you don't loose the experience. Oh, and they're cost effective. ;)
Love,
mom
Don't worry mom, I have a custom pair of plugs from Sensaphonics, AND I keep a backup pair of Etys on my keychain. Concerts are Horse Feathers and Black Lips.
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Don't worry mom, I have a custom pair of plugs from Sensaphonics, AND I keep a backup pair of Etys on my keychain. Concerts are Horse Feathers and Black Lips.
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/phew-smiley-emoticon.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
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My first time going..... any "do not miss" rooms?
Salk is on my list so far.
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Well, it depend what you are looking for. Do you know the mind of sound you prefer and are I.terested in the best example of that kind? Or do.you want to sample the broadest range of speakers possible, even if some sound signatures aren't your cup of tea?
You will also find that talking to ACers at the show will get you some recommendations on excellent sounding set-ups.
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Hi, Bob2.
This is my first time, too. :D :thumb:
I've got so many rooms to visit that I've forgotten half already. My brain tells me I want to visit the following (but reality will probably be much less): Salk/AVA, Vapor, Accuton, Auralic, Daedalus, German Physiks, Jolida, LampizatOr, Legacy, Madisound, Magico, Modwright, TriodeWireLabs, ScanSpeak/SEAS, SimAudio, Soundfield Audio, Zu Audio. I'm sure I've forgotten a couple.
I feel like a kid entering Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory for the first time. It's a shame I don't have an unlimited budget. :|
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AJ,
Which speakers do you plan on showing at Axpona? Enjoyed your newer floor standers at Cap Audio Fest last year, but only had enough time for a short listen.
I'm bringing my M2 standmounts and the VSFT-3s, a new model, up from the one you heard at Capfest.
cheers,
AJ
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Look forward to bumping into you guys at the show. In fact I can get you guys on 'TV' if you want :) Could reserve an hour just for AC'ers if you want. Simply stop by the press room during the show.
For those who can't make it to the show, no problem. i have you covered with the live stream during the entire event, which will appear on our sites www.EnjoyTheMusic.com and www.EnjoyTheMusic.TV .
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roscoeiii,
I'm interested in hearing as much as possible of all different types of music and gear..
My setup is pretty low-fi and want to upgrade. I have some decent tube gear but speakers are next after some acoustic treatments. I'm thinking this should be a good way to start forming an opinion on type of speakers I will be interested in. I have never heard many of the speakers that the members here have.
mresseguie,
I'm like you, I want to see and hear as much as possible. Looks like you have a sizeable list already!
I only planned on going Friday but if I miss much I'll stick around for Saturday..
Hope everyone has a great time!
Bob2
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Good plan. It is much easier to get a feel for speakers than other components at audio shows, so you are in luck.
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If you want to hear something interesting, visit the Janszen room this year.
David Janszen will be using an AVA Fet Valve 400R to drive the speakers this year for the first time.
AVA will be sharing a main display room with SalkSound again of course, but evidently Mr. Janszen liked what he heard with a 400R too.
Frank Van Alstine
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For audio show newbies:
Since this is a new venue for the show we don't know anything about the flow of the show (i.e bottlenecks at elevators, etc). However, given that lack of information, for those of you new to audio shows I'd recommend spending the first 25% of you available time (which means for one day show goers you need to fly through this step in a couple hours) going to the top floor of the show, stopping into several rooms on each floor for a very short time, then use the stairs at the end of the hall to go down one floor and do the same...until you exhaust the floors (usually 3-4 floors). Then do the same in the ballrooms on the main floor. I mention starting at the top and using stairs cuz usually the elevator situation is a huge time waster, and the end stairs are lightly used.
Then once you are able to scope out the entire show, go back to your faves, again starting from the top (or the first audio floor of the set). The last thing you want to have happen is to first go and find you favorite room, spend 3 hours in there and then realize now you have no chance to spend any quality time with the other rooms, and never realized "XYZ is here and I didn't know it".
Also, if you are there more than one day and find a room you were hoping would sound good...sound bad...go back the following day. Often these rooms don't get tweaked in until day 2 or 3 (unfortunately). But, many rooms sound awful for the whole show, so don't be expecting sonic nirvana. I personally attend these shows to touch the equipment, meet the mfg'ers and re-acquaint myself with the forum folks I've become friends with. If I hear great sound its an added plus.
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Thanks for the suggestions!
The Janszen room is on the list. Have looked at the website and like what I see there...
ted_b, that's good advice. Going down versus up as the day wears on makes sense to me!
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For audio show newbies:
Since this is a new venue for the show we don't know anything about the flow of the show (i.e bottlenecks at elevators, etc). However, given that lack of information, for those of you new to audio shows I'd recommend spending the first 25% of you available time (which means for one day show goers you need to fly through this step in a couple hours) going to the top floor of the show, stopping into several rooms on each floor for a very short time, then use the stairs at the end of the hall to go down one floor and do the same...until you exhaust the floors (usually 3-4 floors). Then do the same in the ballrooms on the main floor. I mention starting at the top and using stairs cuz usually the elevator situation is a huge time waster, and the end stairs are lightly used.
Then once you are able to scope out the entire show, go back to your faves, again starting from the top (or the first audio floor of the set). The last thing you want to have happen is to first go and find you favorite room, spend 3 hours in there and then realize now you have no chance to spend any quality time with the other rooms, and never realized "XYZ is here and I didn't know it".
Also, if you are there more than one day and find a room you were hoping would sound good...sound bad...go back the following day. Often these rooms don't get tweaked in until day 2 or 3 (unfortunately). But, many rooms sound awful for the whole show, so don't be expecting sonic nirvana. I personally attend these shows to touch the equipment, meet the mfg'ers and re-acquaint myself with the forum folks I've become friends with. If I hear great sound its an added plus.
Thanks, Ted. This is great advice!
I attended Axpona last year but only for a day (few hours really) and fell into the exact same trap you mentioned. Hope to do justice this time around. I plan to be there on Saturday and Sunday, all day.
I am still a relative newbie in the forum and would love to meet forum members at Axpona. Will keep an eye out for nametags with hopefully AC usernames on it. And if you see a confused looking Asian Indian guy with a nametag called "Arun", please let me know! Would love to chat with you. Oh, and I live in Evanston, by the way.
Regards,
Arun
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Yes, ted_b's advice is great. Hit the stairs, and I think top-down is also a good call. One thing I will add is that headphone exhibitors will have less difficulty setting up (no room issues to deal with!), so it makes sense to head there early in the show when speaker manufacturers are less likely to have their room really well dialed in.
Arun, I work in Evanston! Right downtown in the Chase building. But I won't be in Evanston on Friday...AXPONA here I come.
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I may be in a position to offer a free parking space if someone is interested. I'm staying across the street and my room includes free parking. As I am flying in, I have no need of a space. I'm staying both Friday and Saturday nights. I see no reason why I can't take advantage of the offered space.
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I'd recommend spending the first 25% of you available time (which means for one day show goers you need to fly through this step in a couple hours) going to the top floor of the show, stopping into several rooms on each floor for a very short time, then use the stairs at the end of the hall to go down one floor and do the same...until you exhaust the floors (usually 3-4 floors). Then do the same in the ballrooms on the main floor. I mention starting at the top and using stairs cuz usually the elevator situation is a huge time waster, and the end stairs are lightly used.
...well, unless the fire alarm goes off! :duh:
Good advice Ted :wink:
See ya all soon, leaving this dreadful 78 degree weather shortly
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Which hotel do you speak of?
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Chicago Marriott Suites O'Hare...It's directly across the road from the Westin.
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I may be in a position to offer a free parking space if someone is interested. I'm staying across the street and my room includes free parking. As I am flying in, I have no need of a space. I'm staying both Friday and Saturday nights. I see no reason why I can't take advantage of the offered space.
If not spoken for yet, a friend and I that will be driving over from a nearby Hyatt and could certainly make use of the parking space. We will already be paying for 24 hr. parking at the Hyatt, and would welcome the chance to not pay twice for parking each day. Thanks, Chris
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Hi, Chris.
I'm waiting for a reply from someone. If I do not get a reply by Thursday evening, it's all yours. I'll contact you via PM.
Michael
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Hi, Chris.
I'm waiting for a reply from someone. If I do not get a reply by Thursday evening, it's all yours. I'll contact you via PM.
Michael
Sounds good Michael. Thanks again.
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It's around the corner. Time for a roll call? Who will be there when? Let's get a list going (give us your AC name, real name and days you'll be there):
roscoeiii (Roscoe): Fri, Sat & Sun
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It's around the corner. Time for a roll call? Who will be there when? Let's get a list going (give us your AC name, real name and days you'll be there):
roscoeiii (Roscoe): Fri, Sat & Sun
dburna (Dave Burna): Fri only.
I will be wearing a black long-sleeve t-shirt that simply says "ALE," plus a fleece if it is cold in the hotel tomorrow. Please say hi -- it would be great to put a face to a name. And don't forget -- I have free CDs for the taking. :D
-dB (a unit measure of noise)
UPDATE: I might bring along a few donor LPs as well. Depends on whether I feel like carrying the extra weight. Since I have been TT-less for many years, I don't really have a use for these.
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mresseguie......Michael ......Starting around 1:30 Friday till 4 pm Sunday. My wife, God bless her, has chosen to stay home.
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ted_b (Ted)
questfortone (Rob)
Fri late morning till Sunday end
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I'll be there all three days as well. 8)
Can't wait!
(If someone buys them I can bring my CIA D100-B's (listed) and save you shipping! Hint, hint!)
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I'm in Friday morning through Sunday, staying at the Marriott across the street this time.
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I'm Chris and will be there Friday for the majority of the day and Sunday for about half the day to pick up my new speakers (more on that later). I'll be wearing a blue/grey Columbia fleece and jeans.
Do people bring CD's to listen to? Is it worth or do a majority of the vendors not allow you to play your own stuff?
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I'm in Friday morning through Sunday, staying at the Marriott across the street this time.
Tom's birthday tomorrow!
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Sure, bring cd's but maybe also a USB thumb drive as more and more of the vendors are doing servers (iTunes/Jriver/Audirvana/Pure Music).
Pete, good catch! Tom, I'm staying at MArriott too. I'll buy you a nightcap drink for your big 70th b-day!! :)
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...
Pete, good catch! Tom, I'm staying at MArriott too. I'll buy you a nightcap drink for your big 70th b-day!! :)
Ha, then you'll have to wait a few years!
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Only going to be able to get together after the show on Friday. Tom I hope I can buy you a beer then!
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asliarun (Arun) - All day Saturday and Sunday.
Looking forward to meeting some of you.
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Driving over Friday AM early. Have a trip to Houston on Sunday so I will leave Saturday sometime.
I'll be the ruggedly handsome one. All 5' 18" of me.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25030)
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Driving over Friday AM early. Have a trip to Houston on Sunday so I will leave Saturday sometime.
I'll be the ruggedly handsome one. All 5' 18" of me.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25030)
It's true. BRM is ruggedly handsome.
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I'll be the ruggedly handsome one. All 5' 18" of me.
Dude...there is something really wrong with that!!
Made my day! very funny!
I'll be looking for the guy in the bathrobe and trooper hat... :D
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Rugged yes...handsome?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98319)
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I'm laughing out loud right now!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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TomS, Tedb, et all,
I am staying at the Marriott as well. :wine:
(Ted, I think I owe you a beer or two...)
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I hear that Vapor Sound are rocking it with their new Derechos and the Lampi L7/Purity amps at Axpona in Room 432. Killer sound, I am told.
Wish I was there to check it out. You guys that are going, please report back
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Flying in tomorrow morning with my son from DFW.
Looking forward to an awesome show.
Luis D. Paret
Keller, TX
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AVA SALK ROOM w/Jims new EXOTICA 3's
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98355)
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I know JBL and Harman aren't official exhibitors, but I was wondering if there are any M2's, or failing that 1400 Arrays at the show.
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Vapor/Lampi/Purity room...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98373)
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Well my first ever Axpona is in the books and while I didn't stay the entire day I will be returning on Sunday to visit any rooms I missed or revisit my favorites. Overall a really great experience and I didn't feel the crowds were really that bad. Would have been nice if they would had all three floors in a row instead of 3,4, and 12, but I never had to wait more then a few minutes for a elevator. Below were my personal favorites.
Vapor Audio
Sony
Magico
Salk
Tyler Acoustics
While these were my favorites I really didn't go into any room and not enjoy myself but I know I didn't get to every room. Would love to hear what rooms others liked so I can make sure to put them on my list for Sunday. I parked down the street at the lot and it was a breeze to walk over to the hotel for those of you looking to save $10. The only issue was that the machines were not taking cash so you needed a credit card to pay for the space.
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I'd really appreciate getting some feedback on the room where PS Audio is demoing the new DirectStream DAC. I think it's the Underwood HiFi room?
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First time at Axpona. Friday was very light on attendance. You could bowl down the hallways most of the day. Plenty of sweetspot seating.
Saturday picked up some but still not crowded by any stretch. The smaller rooms got crowded quickly. A flyer sent around announced the show will return to the Westin once again next year. The hotel is large but has only one restaurant. The food is very good there regardless and reasonably priced. We stayed across the road at the Marriott for less dough but the restaurant there was more expensive and way less sexy.
There is a McD's, Subway, 7-Eleven, Giordano's pizza, a pub, and other such establishments within walking distance (1/8 to 1/3 mile) from the Westin.
I did not go into every room. Like many of my AC pals I was not shopping for anything and had only a mild curiosity. I took very few photos cuz I was not motivated to do so. I did hit some impressive rooms and see some cool demos.
The Soundlab massive speakers in a massive room driven by Atmasphere amps was very cool. Having those voices emanate from those large black grills was creepy good.
The Marten floorstanders were very good. Not better than most, but very good.
I liked the $40k Sadurni horns alot. So real sounding. Very large and fugly to my wife, but very nice driven by the Merrill Ncores.
The Seaton Sound surround system was off the charts deep and impressive. $39k, 22,000 watts, very smooth sounding and fast bass response. He demo'd music, concert video, and Bluray with a well-orchestrated screen, projector, and lighting control.
I thought the MBL room was terrible. Not engaging in sound.
The large Focals, what are they, $250k?, were awesome. I know why the rich folks buy them. They always sounded terrible to me at RMAF, but this room was so cool. Talk about large sound and realness!
Likewise, the large Sonus Fabers were very nice as well. Large sound and impactful to beat the band. If you can afford them, give them a listen.
The large Dynaudios in the angled room setup were terrible. Very low-fi sounding. This room is right off the 12th floor elevator but does not match the Event Guide assignment, so maybe it wasn't Dynaudio. They were very tall and slender speakers that looked like DYnaudio.
The Wilson/D'Agonistino room was very nice. A little less imaging than I would expect for the money, but great resolution. DCS dac. They were allowing anyone to offer up a CD to play. That was nice of them.
The Polymer Audio Research had some very interesting speakers in there. They were a small floorstander but weighed in at 400 lbs each. The cabinets did not even move on them. I grabbed the sides and felt no movement. The owner said it takes 2 to lift/assemble the baffle it is so heavy. Wide dispersion in sound, a little gritty. The very hot babe in the red dress handing out brochures was a welcome treat. The speakers were silver - her dress was red. I was trying not to be distracted.
Lawrence Audio speakers were somewhat gritty. Too many ribbons on the large version and the smaller one was very gritty sounding.
My wife and I liked the Kharma DB11's so much we went back for an extended listen. $54,000 drive by Argento/Constellation gear. A wonderful looking and elite room all around. Best viola I ever heard. That instrument was sitting right in the room. Our favorite room hands down at the show.
The Nordost vibration mounts demo was eye opening. If you don't believe in tweaks you may want to reconsider. I was casually standing in the room off-axis and the mounts under the CDP gave a very open and engaging soundstage and depth of sound. Paused the CDP, removed the cones, hit play, and the soundstage and engagement collapsed. I was in shock. Never had such a dramatic effect from a vibration device in real time like that. Pretty cool.
The Daedalus room was mediocre to me. I was expecting much more but it did not impress me or my wife.
The new Vapor speaker was running hot to me and several other AC-ers confirmed this during our conversations. Ryan has some work to do on this very new speaker. Ridiculously high efficiency driven by 18 watts of Bill Baker amps. It was effortless but tipped up or out of balance somewhere. Got to meet Fred (gopher) after all these years. Super guy. Keep selling those Lampi's!
The surround system of Martin Logan speakers in the black light room sounded very good. An interesting surround sound system it made. Had the JL Audio subs(?) in there. A very cool-factor room.
Sat next to Gilbert's table (of Blue Circle) at dinner Friday night. Got to speak with him Saturday and see his O'scope demo of the noise reduction from his PVC-silicone power filters. A very convincing demo. He's a mad scientist and I enjoyed speaking with him and Walt Stagner of TLP audio. I have a FEx02 something unit here to try out.
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Traffic definitely was not light at our AVA/Salk room. On Saturday afternoon we had a line out the door of people waiting to come in and listen.
Pretty amazing. People came, people listened, people didn't leave, they just stayed and listened some more. Gonna sell a bunch of stuff this year. :)
Frank Van Alstine
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This was my first Axpona, actually first ever audio show. Went to most rooms. Rooms that held my interest the most were ones that were playing music I like. I thought the Legacy Room sounded really good, the Venture room on the first floor was very good too. One room that really impressed me, especially in the price for performance category was the AVA/Salk room. When I sat down, I assumed the new 12,000.00 speakers were playing. It took me awhile to figure out the 2000.00 Salks were playing instead. Warm, spacious, very pleasant sounding. They did not have the volume up very much in that room so it would have been nice to hear them rock out some.
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The new Vapor speaker was running hot to me and several other AC-ers confirmed this during our conversations. Ryan has some work to do on this very new speaker. Ridiculously high efficiency driven by 18 watts of Bill Baker amps. It was effortless but tipped up or out of balance somewhere. Got to meet Fred (gopher) after all these years. Super guy. Keep selling those Lampi's!
If you're able, come back today ... turns out the tizz on top was from a bad Sovtek tube in the pre. Replaced it with some Tung Sol and the zing is gone. Speakers do get all the credit, but the flip side is they also get all the blame.
Fred and Rob are great guys, we've had a great time showing together :thumb:
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I guess my listening tastes differ from what others want. For the second year in a row, I left feeling really blessed that my moderate system sounds so much better -- to my untrained ears-- than most of these mega buck systems.
1). I obviously value soundstage, depth and imaging much more than the those setting up most of the rooms. Even in the sweet spot of most of the larger rooms, I thought the soundstages were flat and absolutely diffuse. There were some exceptions; King, Venture, Magico, Legacy and the Orangutans come immediately to mind.(but what was it with that huge distracting screen in the Venture room?)
2). Do people really want to hear boomy bass of excessively large speakers overwhelming rooms? Sadly I assume the answer is yes. This was the rule not the exception. Rule number one should be to bring an appropriate speaker for the room, or if you are displaying a big speaker, pony up for a big room. And try not to make people sit in a single row with their backs on the rear wall.
3). Do people really like hearing gigantic multi hundred thousand dollar speakers making everyone sound like their heads are ten feet wide? Maybe I am just sensitive to this.
That said, I did enjoy a dozen or so rooms, I got some great new music suggestions, and I learned more about what I like and dislike in sound.
And yes, I truly believe it is subjective. I think many of these rooms weren't failures in execution, they were often succeeding but doing something which I simply do not value.
Some of the rooms which did appeal to me, besides the above included Argento, D'Agostino, one of the Dynaudios, Salk, Rogue, Benchmark, Derecho, Silnote, and Lawrence. And those tiny white flat speakers with two cones that cost two thousand a pair??
One man's opinion.
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If you're able, come back today ... turns out the tizz on top was from a bad Sovtek tube in the pre. Replaced it with some Tung Sol and the zing is gone. Speakers do get all the credit, but the flip side is they also get all the blame.
Fred and Rob are great guys, we've had a great time showing together :thumb:
Awesome news. Unfortunately I have to fly to Houston today so had to leave early. Good to hear, well, almost hear from here! You have quite the room of know-how there. Too bad Baker was off celebrating his anniversary. Well, maybe it's a good weekend for him regardless! Happy wife, happy life.
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That said, I did enjoy a dozen or so rooms, I got some great new music suggestions, and I learned more about what I like and dislike in sound.
I was feverishly Shazaming or taking notes and was quite busy on Amazon today placing orders for music. Love the great tracks you can pick up.
On the room size issue, there are limited large rooms so often it is a quandary of what a vendor wants to show versus can they pull it off in the smaller venues they may end up with.
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I had a nice time at AXPONA, but I have to side with SwamisCat on this one. I believe I went to every room on Friday. This was possible because of 1) light crowds and 2) the fact that there were many systems that were only semi-listenable. Big bucks poured into systems that had a predominance of two types of sounds -- either boomy/imprecise bass and/or shallow/thin-sounding midranges. I didn't hear many ear-bleeding systems, thankfully, but so many systems had sound that I know can (and have) been beaten by more modest rigs in real-world/room environments.
To my ears, there were only three rooms that "got it right" -- High Water Sound (Hornings with Tron equipment + a great (TW-Raven?) TT), Volti Audio (Volti speakers with quite modest electronics) and the Merrill/Sadurni room (if I ever want to forego paying for my daughter's college tuition). Many of the rest were distracting in their "wrongness". :) A few (but not many) systems sounded "somewhat/close to right" in terms of dynamics, freq. balance, and precision -- among those were SoundLabs, Marten, Vapor, Kharma, DeVore -- that it would probably have been worth it to hear them later in the weekend to see if some tweaking/re-configuring would have improved things. In general, most of the systems I heard were quite uninspiring and would not have merited a re-visit.....and that's before one looks at the price tags. As I told the folks in the Volti Room, some vendors almost managed to do what I thought impossible: they almost made me HATE music! :lol:
And while I know that the too-big-speakers-in-too-small-rooms factor played a big part in it, that can't be the whole story. I made a point to listen to some speakers up close (to reduce the impact of room interaction) and found that A) many systems had significantly unflat or tipped frequency responses (differed by vendor) and B) apparently tight/precise bass response is beyond the realm of capability for many high-end speaker developers. I know all this sounds harsh, but I heard more on Friday that seemed like "sound effects" and less like music.
I do have a guess at one of the factors making the bass boomy/imprecise in rooms. Some speakers are much harder to control than others, particularly in the bass. That's just pure physics, a function of the characteristics of drivers employed. I think some vendors made a mistake showing their systems with tube gear. For many tube amps, low-end control is not their strong suit, and the combo of the weaknesses of both amps and speakers makes for a bad result. Put plainly, some tube amps and certain speakers go together like drinking-&-driving or pills-&-alcohol -- just a bad idea. It comes down to knowing your product and aligning with vendors that complement your gear....not shacking up with anyone just because they have a space for you. And I have (and have loved) tube gear -- done right, there is no equal. But you shouldn't ask gear to do what it isn't good at, nor should you slap equipment together and flaunt it in the face of the "Synergy Gods". Bottom line for vendors: know your strengths and weaknesses, emphasize the former and minimize the latter. If not, when the Synergy Gods are displeased, they will extract their revenge. :lol:
On the plus side, I met some nice folks, including Big Red Music (Mr. Ruggedly Handsome himself) and his charming wife. I didn't meet many ACers even though I had a ridiculously awful hand-made name tag so that folks could find me easily. I'm guessing that most folks (like me) were focused on listening to systems/gear and were not as focused on meeting people. Either that or my pre-announcement of publicizing Little Kids Rock turned people off, which I hope is not the case. I tried not to (and don't think that I did) overwhelm anyone in that regard.
All the criticism of the traditional stereo systems aside, I did hear some promising products at AXPONA. It's just that most of them were in the personal/headphone listening space.....and I'm not much of a headphone guy, either. However, when the sound in a majority of rooms "drive you out" in 30 seconds, that gives one more time to listen to headphones.
1. Auralic: I knew the Vega DAC/Taurus headphone amp rig was going to sound great, and I was not disappointed. I wish the Vega was within my price range, but it's not. I wish I could find a DAC that sounds even semi-close to the Vega at a $1k (+ or -) price. However, I thought the Gemini headphone amp/stand was no slouch either. Not as good as the big-brother rig, but pretty nice along with.....
2. Audeze headphones: listened to (I think) all models that were there in multiple systems. Liked them all. Pretty comfortable, too, though perhaps a smidgen hot (temperature, not sound) on the head over time.
3. M*A Recordings. Nice-to-superb sound out of all of their titles, which is no easy feat. Performances varied from good-to-excellent, but that's always the way with virtually every label. My favorite was Milcho Leviev/Dave Holland "Up And Down".
4. Woo Audio: liked (but didn't love) their new Cube, even though it is sooooo adorable and design/lifestyle-friendly. But I really like some of their other tube amps a lot. Lovely, grain-free sound.
5. Benchmark DAC2 sounded pretty good. I'm not sure it's ultimately 'it' for me, but it was pretty respectable. Much better than the DAC1 IMO.
All in all, I had a fine time at AXPONA, but I came home to a more modest system that I wouldn't have traded even-up for many of those that I heard on Friday.
-dB (who still loves music and stereos.....when they are done well)
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To my ears, there were only three rooms that "got it right" -- High Water Sound (Hornings with Tron equipment + a great (TW-Raven?) TT), Volti Audio (Volti speakers with quite modest electronics) and the Merrill/Sadurni room (if I ever want to forego paying for my daughter's college tuition). Many of the rest were distracting in their "wrongness". :) A few (but not many) systems sounded "somewhat/close to right" in terms of dynamics, freq. balance, and precision -- among those were SoundLabs, Marten, Vapor, Kharma, DeVore -- that it would probably have been worth it to hear them later in the weekend to see if some tweaking/re-configuring would have improved things. In general, most of the systems I heard were quite uninspiring and would not have merited a re-visit.....and that's before one looks at the price tags. As I told the folks in the Volti Room, some vendors almost managed to do what I thought impossible: they almost made me HATE music! :lol:
I agree with your comments, especially about the Voltis and the Sadurnis. I found a lot of the rooms too hot in the high frequencies. Maybe the speaker designers are going for too much detail or my hearing has changed, but there were some rooms that flat out hurt my ears. And then there are the vendors who want to play jungle music.
The Voltis were powered by a Peachtree Audio integrated and had a Yamaha CD players as its source. That was good sound.
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Would appreciate feedback on the Benchmark room if they employed their new little $3k power amp. What speaker make/model?
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Thanks for the reports, guys. I was planning on going with my boys as this show is close. But, my oldest was confirmed today so this weekend was reserved for him. Looking forward to next year. Keep the pics and reports coming.
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The Voltis were powered by a Peachtree Audio integrated and had a Yamaha CD players as its source. That was good sound.
Voltis were powered by a Peachtree integrated used only as a preamp into Quicksilver EL34 mono amps. Source was a Yamaha SACD player. I just happened to remember this because I had a conversation with the Triode Wire rep (they shared the room with Volti) about the system configuration and the cache of SACDs they brought to the show.
-dB
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Voltis were powered by a Peachtree integrated used only as a preamp into Quicksilver EL34 mono amps. Source was a Yamaha SACD player. I just happened to remember this because I had a conversation with the Triode Wire rep (they shared the room with Volti) about the system configuration.
-dB
Good memory. I said CD as opposed to SACD because we brought a CD to audition. I didn't realize the player also played SACDs. Either way, really good sound with modest electronics.
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I don't know why, but this is one of the worst shows I've been to
I thought the Snake River room was decent, and a couple others,
I found the Logan muti channel room annoying, and the big Logans ya 10 foot mouth thats real
I really can't stand the Demo rooms where they play 30 second sound bites Aka Kef, and a few others
The million dollar room wasn't that impressive, I do enjoy Mark W, Dr AIX however
I did enjoy running into a few guys I know Fred, Doug, Dwayne
Maybe next year will be better
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When you think about all of these audio companies are using the same power grid of the hotel all at the same time, it is a miracle that any of the rooms sounds good. Plus you also have many other hotel guests that are using the same grid. Back in the 80's when I went to the Chicago CES show, at least 2-3 floors would black-out because of the strain on the power grid. This would happen almost every year and the CES show was at the same hotel.
One of the reasons Danny Ritchie of GR Research gets high marks at these shows is because he uses an all battery system. In the 6moons report of last years Munich audio show, the reviewer gave an all battery system of the Living Voice the highest marks. Just take a look at the battery system that this company used.
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/munich2013/1.html
(http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/munich2013/lv3.jpg)
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When you think about all of these audio companies are using the same power grid of the hotel all at the same time, it is a miracle that any of the rooms sounds good. Plus you also have many other hotel guests that are using the same grid. Back in the 80's when I went to the Chicago CES show, at least 2-3 floors would black-out because of the strain on the power grid. This would happen almost every year and the CES show was at the same hotel.
One of the reasons Danny Ritchie of GR Research gets high marks at these shows is because he uses an all battery system. In the 6moons report of last years Munich audio show, the reviewer gave an all battery system of the Living Voice the highest marks. Just take a look at the battery system that this company used.
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/munich2013/1.html
(http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/munich2013/lv3.jpg)
:thumb:
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I enjoyed Axpona again this year, saw some old friends, and met a few new ones. Most of the notable rooms have already been covered, but I'll add my 2 cents.
- Volti and TWL was great again. I went back at least 3 times to relax and get over the bad sound in some of the other rooms. I liked their theme "Have Fun!", and that's what you get with these speakers (~$16k). They were by far the most enjoyable setup I listened to.
- Salk Sound's new Exotica 3's sounded great right off the bat on Friday, which is really hard to do with brand new speakers, especially at the opening bell. These are by far the best I've heard from Jim's team, at least for my tastes, and are going to be very competitive (~$12k). Terrific job!
- The big Venture's sounded good and very dominating, though at these crazy prices (~$180k??), as well as the Sonus Faber Aida's (~$120k) with a bevy of Audio Research's best gear, I suppose they should. Both were playing vinyl at the time, which may have had something to do with it.
- The little Aerial monitors with a small sub and Musical Design electronics really surprised me. A great sat/sub integration job on their part as they sounded plenty big and smooth.
- Clayton Shaw at Spatial had an unassuming little floor standing open baffle speaker ~24" tall, all passive xo, using pro drivers that was quite impressive for ~$2k.
- The Legacy Aeris's (~$18k) were in two rooms and showed again why they've received such great reviews in the mainstream magazines. In his seminar, Bill D also revealed a rather bold strategy with an 8 channel DSP preamp and apodizing filter dacs to drive multiple amps per speaker, measurement and eq capability, etc. This will start with the next generation Helix that looked like an Aeris on steroids, and will trickle down to others that currently use the Xilica processor. Pretty cool stuff from a master.
- I must have heard the tizzy tubes in the Vapor room as it was fairly harsh when I was there. It's good they figured it out, but it seems they always have some sort of drama with their gear. Great looking design for something under $8k.
- The TAD CR1's on the long wall setup, while still quite nice, weren't as good as I know they can sound. Andrew even switched rooms the first day as the 12th floor one just wasn't manageable. So much for moving to a new venue.
- Some were notable by their lack of presence this year, perhaps due to the flood of shows to cover now - Odyssey, VSA, Magnepan, Bryston, Ayre, and a few others I don't recall at the moment. You just can't do them all now.
Overall, it was fun, and nice to have a show close by in the Midwest again.
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It does seem likely that dirty power grid would diminish performance at hotel show venues.
KEF's LS50 always receives raves in professional reviews, and almost all users agree it's the bees knees. Its forbear the Blade was one of my all time favorites.
Heard fairly well broken in LS50 on two different systems (in two rooms) at the San Francisco KEF dealer, and thought it was mediocre at best. I can only imagine the fault is other than the speaker.
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As soon as I got home I added about a dozen new artists to my Streaming favorites.
I had never heard Elvis performing Fever before. Another cool finding was Contextual by Petros Klampanis.
And of course I got some new music from the MA booth. I love the way he records music.
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Would appreciate feedback on the Benchmark room if they employed their new little $3k power amp. What speaker make/model?
Yes, Benchmark used their DAC2, their new amp and their own new speaker. It was a small thing, in a small room, and sounded great without overwhelming everything like most smaller rooms.
Tasteful quality.
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Computer Audiophile's View of Axpona (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/578-searching-good-sound-axpona-chicago-2014/)
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I had a difficult time getting manufacturers or dealers to play music from my USB stick. This is computer audio people, not rocket science.
This is absolutely true. I had one tune on a usb stick and could not get anyone to play it. Many said they weren't setup for that...
I was ready to spend time listening and possibly buy but if I can't hear the music I usually listen to then I may not be so interested.
The DeVore Orangutan O/96 was a real surprise. A lot of sound coming out of that box! They were pretty busy by the time I got to their room so I didn't ask to play my music so I can't say if they were setup for that or not.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98583)
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Both the Salk Exotica speakers and the Janszen electrostatis were driven by Audio by Van Alstine Fet Valve hybrid power amplifiers at the show. David Janszen even ordered a second Fet Valve 400R wired for 240V to use at the coming Munich, Germany show.
Interesting how our amplifier can get the best out of two wildly different speaker designs and loads and yet deserve not a mention in the comments above.
Frank Van Alstine
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Both the Salk Exotica speakers and the Janszen electrostatis were driven by Audio by Van Alstine Fet Valve hybrid power amplifiers at the show. David Janszen even ordered a second Fet Valve 400R wired for 240V to use at the coming Munich, Germany show.
Interesting how our amplifier can get the best out of two wildly different speaker designs and loads and yet deserve not a mention in the comments above.
Frank Van Alstine
Frank, my guess would be that it is hard to gauge the contribution of associated gear on a speaker's sound. Harder to gauge a component with unfamiliar speakers.
That said, yes both those systems sounded great. And hard to sound great without system synergy. To put it lightly.
And great meeting you on Saturday. Good to see your room so crowded.
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There was a $1,000,000 stereo there? What room was it in?
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There was a $1,000,000 stereo there? What room was it in?
Fabio's? (Remember him?)
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Fabio's? (Remember him?)
You mean this dude now does high end stereos?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98614)
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You mean this dude now does high end stereos?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98614)
Yes, that guy, another of those persons famous for being famous. Maybe 15-20 years ago he presented the world with his insanely expensive system, IIRC circa $1M.
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I attended all three days as well, and although I always caution to beware of trying to evaluate product sonics at show conditions...we all do it. :) And yes, this show in particular had a bad combination of poor sonics often played way too loud (one presenter pointed out that the rooms were more square than other hotel shows and thus the damn midbass humps were even more prevalent).
But I did enjoy the show immensely. Why? Cuz it hit all of my goals: touch and feel some new devices I was interested in, catch up with several manufacturers/friends on next steps (Dan Wright, Paul McGowan, Wang Xuanqian, George Klissarov, etc) and re-kindle great friendships made at these forums (often even meeting a few face to face for the first time).
What about this idea: develop a show where the entire room setup needs to be less than $x (say $5k) or multiples ($5k on floor 29-30, $10k on floor 34, etc) so the dealers or mfg'ers are forced to "get real". There is nothing more pathetic than going into a suite of $300-500k worth of gear, hear the same audiophile cuts at 108db, overpowering the room something fierce, and walking (or running) away with the feeling that this is hedonism at its worst.
I will continue to attend these shows, but mainly for my aforementioned goals. If I hear a room that even portends greatness it is almost by accident.
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Also...room correction at shows. Why is it almost non-existent?
A few of us chatted about room correction and how things like Dirac, REW, Audyssey, etc would be easy to implement (in a rough setup form). One room that boasted of using it (McIntosh/Martin Logan 5.1 surround room) couldn't even demo turning it on and off (said they didn't know the software well enough..or maybe cuz the a/b was not proof enough). ?? Seriously, and they were the dealer? Not buying from them, sorry. It would have been a tremendous opportunity to push McIntosh's RoomPerfect...since these rooms are likely much worse starting off than most audio lovers' home listening room conditions.
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Also...room correction at shows. Why is it almost non-existent?
A few of us chatted about room correction and how things like Dirac, REW, Audyssey, etc would be easy to implement (in a rough setup form). One room that boasted of using it (McIntosh/Martin Logan 5.1 surround room) couldn't even demo turning it on and off (said they didn't know the software well enough..or maybe cuz the a/b was not proof enough). ?? Seriously, and they were the dealer? Not buying from them, sorry. It would have been a tremendous opportunity to push McIntosh's RoomPerfect...since these rooms are likely much worse starting off than most audio lovers' home listening room conditions.
Agreed Ted. Something like a DSPeaker Dual Core could nicely help with room related bass issues. Though then a dealer/manufacturer who isn't selling DSPeaker may get accused of mistrepresenting their speakers...
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Roscoeiii,
I think you nailed it. If the speakers are not DSP or the room is not specifically demonstrating room correction equipment and software, I think any use of room correction could be looked upon as, at the very least, confusing and suspicious. At the worst it could be looked upon as misrepresentation (if someone's glass was half full).
A pet show peeve of mine is a room with a quarter of an acre of electronics on the floor. All my friends and I run our systems like that. :roll: I understand one pair of monoblocks on the floor but there is a limit on the amount of real estate that can be devoted to electronics in a normal home.
Agreed Ted. Something like a DSPeaker Dual Core could nicely help with room related bass issues. Though then a dealer/manufacturer who isn't selling DSPeaker may get accused of mistrepresenting their speakers...
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Don,
I think the improvment in sonics would hugely override anyone wondering about the confusion or "trickery" of DSP'd room eq. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a good set of room dimensions, complete room treatment and perfectly set up speaker positions before I even thought about advanced electronic room correction....(which, I now believe, still could do some good, especially the better more-thought-out implementations). BUT...if you were at Axpona this past weekend you would not have stayed in most rooms long enough to care about "why does this room sound so good". That would have been a great problem to have. Instead, you'd be running out, hoping no permanent damage was done. :)
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Ted,
I was not there and the guys have not reported back to me yet so I'd like to pick your brain here, so to speak. :)
If I read you correctly, does it mean the room(s) is not acoustically sound?
Thanks,
Hugh
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I enjoyed Axpona again this year, saw some old friends, and met a few new ones. Most of the notable rooms have already been covered, but I'll add my 2 cents.
- The little Aerial monitors with a small sub and Musical Design electronics really surprised me. A great sat/sub integration job on their part as they sounded plenty big and smooth.
Overall, it was fun, and nice to have a show close by in the Midwest again.
Hi Tom,
It was great meeting and sharing a meal with you. Too bad I didn't get to meet some other AC members I haven't met before. I thought the Aerial/Exemplar/Musical Design/REL system was very musical and offered good value. I am working on getting the Musical Design preamp and power amp for review soon.
Cheers,
Paul Mah
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Hugh,
Hi. The rooms had poor uneven response (bass nodes badly) and the dealers/manufacturers, on the whole, did very little to try and tame or position for them. Even your Melody 211 integrated, which starred in the wonderful sounding Audio Archon room (Lawrence Violins, MG Audio cabling) couldn't tame the bass node that existed along the back and side room areas. That room had a very nice sweetspot for listening, though, and the 211's sounded great there. :) It was one of five rooms I could have spent all day in (Smaller white Kharmas, huge Sadurni horns, Audio Note corner loaded bookshelves, small Aerial 5B's with REL subwoofer at 28hz)....all small speakers in small rooms, except for the Sadurnis which had a WOW factor drug that I craved on a regular basis. Oh to hear those horns with a pair of Melody 300Bs (push pull power needed for subs)
Mike's Audio Archon Lawrence Violin room sounded better than Lawrence's own room (Cellos and Rowland Class D gear) due to system synergy and a slight need to sit back further with the Cellos, which put you in bass node world (aka wrong size for the room).
A special mention to an AC-filled Vapor room (Fred, Rob, Joe, Pete, Ryan). Friday the room was bright, harsh and congested sounding. Why? Cuz the damn preamp had bad tubes and cuz the new Vapors were...er, um, NEW! As in hours old. By Sunday that room was much better (speaker surround breakin, better NOS tubes, slightly changed speaker positioning). Believe it or not, several rooms sounded worse on Sunday (and by that time the only recourse was to shake your head and walk out).
Net/net, hotel rooms are either bad or worse for sonics. The Westin seems to own some of the worst. They even made the up-till-now invincible TAD CR1s sound ordinary and slightly congested (Andrew moved to that room from an even worse one on 12). Hopefully next year there is more care in matching up systems and rooms. The guy who does 60 minutes of room correction will make most people's best-of lists (since we all like to rate these horrible rooms, even knowing what we know). :)
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Ted,
Thanks for the info.
It is valuable for next year planning.
Onto room correction, this is one of the area which I am ignorant of since I never tried it in my 2ch setup.
Is there such a thing?
Please ducate me.
Thanks,
Hugh
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Also, forgot the Volti horn room. Sounded good enough to camp in, too. It was all hooked via Pete's new Triode interconnects, speaker wire and tried-and-true power cords. It must be good stuff cuz the room sounded nice!
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Found this. :)
http://www.trinnov.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/Amethyst_Product_Sheet_EN_2013-09.pdf
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I think the improvment in sonics would hugely override anyone wondering about the confusion or "trickery" of DSP'd room eq.
EQing is the devils work. It's ok in the studio, but afterwards, bad juju.
Not to mention cheating.
cheers,
AJ
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AJ,
We're talking about those hotel rooms we were all just in. Not necessarily our home environs. Yes, the purist approach is no EQ, I agree. But to use purist and Westin Axpona in the same sentence...THAT is the devil's work. :)
I enjoyed listening to your smaller monitors..never got there when the bigger ones were firing, sorry. Hopefully I didn't scare away too many customers when packing up Dan's modded Sony. It made it home ok (better shape than me). Thanks.
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Hugh,
Hi. The rooms had poor uneven response (bass nodes badly) and the dealers/manufacturers, on the whole, did very little to try and tame or position for them. Even your Melody 211 integrated, which starred in the wonderful sounding Audio Archon room (Lawrence Violins, MG Audio cabling) couldn't tame the bass node that existed along the back and side room areas. That room had a very nice sweetspot for listening, though, and the 211's sounded great there. :) It was one of five rooms I could have spent all day in (Smaller white Kharmas, huge Sadurni horns, Audio Note corner loaded bookshelves, small Aerial 5B's with REL subwoofer at 28hz)....all small speakers in small rooms, except for the Sadurnis which had a WOW factor drug that I craved on a regular basis. Oh to hear those horns with a pair of Melody 300Bs (push pull power needed for subs)
Mike's Audio Archon Lawrence Violin room sounded better than Lawrence's own room (Cellos and Rowland Class D gear) due to system synergy and a slight need to sit back further with the Cellos, which put you in bass node world (aka wrong size for the room).
A special mention to an AC-filled Vapor room (Fred, Rob, Joe, Pete, Ryan). Friday the room was bright, harsh and congested sounding. Why? Cuz the damn preamp had bad tubes and cuz the new Vapors were...er, um, NEW! As in hours old. By Sunday that room was much better (speaker surround breakin, better NOS tubes, slightly changed speaker positioning). Believe it or not, several rooms sounded worse on Sunday (and by that time the only recourse was to shake your head and walk out).
Net/net, hotel rooms are either bad or worse for sonics. The Westin seems to own some of the worst. They even made the up-till-now invincible TAD CR1s sound ordinary and slightly congested (Andrew moved to that room from an even worse one on 12). Hopefully next year there is more care in matching up systems and rooms. The guy who does 60 minutes of room correction will make most people's best-of lists (since we all like to rate these horrible rooms, even knowing what we know). :)
Ted, it was great talking with you again, I always learn alot. Thanx for noticing the BIG differences in our room, (Lampizator, Vapor, Purity, and Verastarr) from Friday to Sunday. Nice to know that our hard work paid off :thumb:
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EQing is the devils work. It's ok in the studio, but afterwards, bad juju.
Not to mention cheating.
cheers,
AJ
I don't understand why you say that EQ is "cheating". Isn't the point of speaker design is to get the best sound possible? If it takes cheating to optimize some speakers then I'm all for it. This is all about the sound, not a competitive game.
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EQing is the devils work. It's ok in the studio, but afterwards, bad juju.
Not to mention cheating.
cheers,
AJ
As much as I want a great sounding and measuring speaker with no EQ, I am coming around to the benefits of a transparent EQ. And digital EQs are getting there. Robert Greene has made me a convert there. Helps with room effects (especially if you have placement and room treatment limitations), and gives the listeners the ability to dial in the sound they like best.
If getting the best possible sound requires cheating, OK I'll cheat.
Sorry a bit OT.
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AJ,
We're talking about those hotel rooms we were all just in. Not necessarily our home environs. Yes, the purist approach is no EQ, I agree. But to use purist and Westin Axpona in the same sentence...THAT is the devil's work. :)
I should have added the "tongue in cheek" emoticon, as I said it mainly in jest....
I enjoyed listening to your smaller monitors..never got there when the bigger ones were firing, sorry. Hopefully I didn't scare away too many customers when packing up Dan's modded Sony. It made it home ok (better shape than me). Thanks.
Thanks and glad to hear, that Sony is a very nice piece by Dan. Good seeing all you gents as always.
cheers,
AJ
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I don't understand why you say that EQ is "cheating".
I said it in jest...but let me ask you this:
A speaker is bright, a bit recessed in the mids from poor XO work, or a non-ideal driver, etc. and has the typical ported box boom being blamed on the "room".
A touch of EQ here and there and now it sounds pretty darned listenable, maybe even very good...at the show.
Attendee is wowed, buys it, gets it home and...bright, recessed and boomy. They don't have EQ. What now? "Treatments" and magic caps? 8 years of "break/burn in"?
Not cheated?
Well...
cheers,
AJ
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As much as I want a great sounding and measuring speaker with no EQ, I am coming around to the benefits of a transparent EQ. And digital EQs are getting there. Robert Greene has made me a convert there. Helps with room effects (especially if you have placement and room treatment limitations), and gives the listeners the ability to dial in the sound they like best.
If getting the best possible sound requires cheating, OK I'll cheat.
Sorry a bit OT.
That approach is not possible if you are listen to 2 channel analog, unless I am misunderstanding you.
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I think AJ makes a very good point. Have you guys ever noticed that there are always one or two vendors that get very good, musically compelling sound in these so called "terrible rooms" without any sort of room correction at all? Why is that so? I think it is because their gear is designed to sound good in a typical living room situation in the first place. Just my guess anyway.
Hugh,
Your gear always sounds very good at the shows I have been to. I wouldn't sweat the room correction thing.
I'm glad everyone had a good time. Looking forward to my next show on the west coast....... :D
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I said it in jest...but let me ask you this:
A speaker is bright, a bit recessed in the mids from poor XO work, or a non-ideal driver, etc. and has the typical ported box boom being blamed on the "room".
A touch of EQ here and there and now it sounds pretty darned listenable, maybe even very good...at the show.
Attendee is wowed, buys it, gets it home and...bright, recessed and boomy. They don't have EQ. What now? "Treatments" and magic caps? 8 years of "break/burn in"?
Not cheated?
Well...
cheers,
AJ
I am in the minority in that I agree with your comments regarding audio show room EQ. Clearly for one's system EQ is a must to compensate for their room's deficiencies, but I prefer all the rooms at the shows to be on an even playing field although we all know it is far from perfect. I liked a bunch of the rooms with a variety of music (Sadurni horns and Volti) that were untreated. I even liked the monolith electrostatics even though the bass was boomy. Clearly that was correctable but it was nice to know they have bass to control!
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Quote from AJinFLA
Thanks and glad to hear, that Sony is a very nice piece by Dan.
Good to hear. That is my piece when I meet up with Ted sometime later this week or next week. :thumb:
Regards,
Randy
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That is my piece when I meet up with Ted sometime later this week or next week.
Unless he suddenly has an "emergency" where he has to keep it for another week.....:wink:
Dans Oppo is no slouch either. I actually used it most of the weekend, as I am too much of a Luddite to download the smartphone remote ap
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Quote from AJinFLA
Good to hear. That is my piece when I meet up with Ted sometime later this week or next week. :thumb:
Regards,
Randy
Oh Randy, I forgot to tell you that I have highly contagious TB right now and can't let anyone into my home until, um, er, a couple weeks. Yeah, a couple weeks (or at least until Vinnie's modded unit arrives :) ).
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I guess Pez and Tyson weren't at Axpona? Will there be any room-by-room breakdown from anyone?
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Hi AJ,
Great to hang and chow with you. Did the speakers get back okay? Make sure they are ready when Doug requests them for the review.
Cheers,
Paul
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Did anybody listen to the JTR room? Thoughts?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrmbTDbvHPA&list=UU8mwfiB_0vQtdPPbBJv0EMQ
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I enjoyed Axpona again this year, saw some old friends, and met a few new ones. Most of the notable rooms have already been covered, but I'll add my 2 cents.
- Volti and TWL was great again. I went back at least 3 times to relax and get over the bad sound in some of the other rooms. I liked their theme "Have Fun!", and that's what you get with these speakers (~$16k). They were by far the most enjoyable setup I listened to.
Overall, it was fun, and nice to have a show close by in the Midwest again.
Hey Tom,
Great to see you again! Greg Roberts (Volti Audio) & I had a ton of fun, even though it was very fatiguing with only two of us in the room... but the accolades left by others on our whiteboard was extremely rewarding!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98698)
Also, it was great to see tedb, AJ, berto, gopher, mresseguie, ltr317, BigRedMachine and many others!
I hope everyone "Had Fun"!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98700)
Newport is next with Greg & Gary Dews from Border Patrol!
Cheers,
Pete
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Hey Tom,
Great to see you again! Greg Roberts (Volti Audio) & I had a ton of fun, even though it was very fatiguing with only two of us in the room... but the accolades left by others on our whiteboard was extremely rewarding!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98698)
Also, it was great to see tedb, AJ, berto, gopher, mresseguie, ltr317, BigRedMachine and many others!
I hope everyone "Had Fun"!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98700)
Newport is next with Greg & Gary Dews from Border Patrol!
Cheers,
Pete
Hi Pete,
Excellent sounding room. I wore the "have fun" sticker proudly throughout the show. Don't forget to bring "Walking On The Moon" to Newport, but if you do forget I'll have my copy for you to copy. :D See you there if not before.
Cheers,
Paul
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Hi AJ,
Great to hang and chow with you. Did the speakers get back okay? Make sure they are ready when Doug requests them for the review.
Cheers,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Good seeing you too, fun dinner Sat, don't think I've ever had that much exercise at one! :lol:
I'll see in a day or so, Pilot Freight has been 100% reliable in the "no damage" category, much like FedEx is in the "damage" category.
Pete good seeing you and all the fellas as well. Till next time...
cheers,
AJ
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Oh Randy, I forgot to tell you that I have highly contagious TB right now and can't let anyone into my home until, um, er, a couple weeks. Yeah, a couple weeks (or at least until Vinnie's modded unit arrives :) ).
Hahaha
You forgot to include the "cough, cough" at the end...
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Hi Paul,
Good seeing you too, fun dinner Sat, don't think I've ever had that much exercise at one! :lol:
I'll see in a day or so, Pilot Freight has been 100% reliable in the "no damage" category, much like FedEx is in the "damage" category.
Pete good seeing you and all the fellas as well. Till next time...
cheers,
AJ
Good thing we still have our hearing after that "sound blast" during dinner. :lol: I've had pretty good luck with FedEx considering the number of review items shipped to me. UPS, on the other hand, well they belong more in the "destroyed" category. So, you decided to return ship with Pilot instead.
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I too was a big fan of the Legacy Audio room. Really loved the Aeris, and agree with all of the rave reviews. The Whisper is on another level- the openness and quickness is unreal. Kind of like the first time you hear high resolution audio, it sounds like other speakers have been lying to me all these years. Dynamics for days too, can't think of a single thing the Legacy can't do.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98741)
Tom, did you get a photo of the next generation Legacy Helix? I'm a huge fan of the Aeris design, and I know Helix will be priced higher around $48k, but I'd love to see a photo if you have it?
- The Legacy Aeris's (~$18k) were in two rooms and showed again why they've received such great reviews in the mainstream magazines. In his seminar, Bill D also revealed a rather bold strategy with an 8 channel DSP preamp and apodizing filter dacs to drive multiple amps per speaker, measurement and eq capability, etc. This will start with the next generation Helix that looked like an Aeris on steroids, and will trickle down to others that currently use the Xilica processor. Pretty cool stuff from a master.
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Also, I really dug Dean laying it down :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98742)
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...
Tom, did you get a photo of the next generation Legacy Helix? I'm a huge fan of the Aeris design, and I know Helix will be priced higher around $48k, but I'd love to see a photo if you have it?
Bill just showed a rendering of it in his presentation. I'm sure someone there would be able to send it to you.
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hi,
where can we find invitations from? :roll: