Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.

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HAL

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #260 on: 21 Feb 2011, 12:33 am »
Thanks! That was what I was looking for.   I have two of the SURE 2x100's on order with a 24V @ 6A power supply!   :D

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #261 on: 23 Feb 2011, 07:35 pm »
Will do, thanks.

Quote from: Danny on  9 Feb 2011, 08:32 AM
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Try this: Pick a piece of music with a clean intro using an acoustic instrument. A guitar will be great. Some clean unprocessed vocals won't hurt either. But just start with the intro. Play about the first 10 to 20 seconds of it only. Play it five or six times in a row. Really listen to it and its details. Basically, memorize it. Then switch. Listen for not just the notes, but the space between the notes. Listen for the noise floor. Do the notes run together or is there is clear space. Go back an forth again.

Well, have you had time to give it a shot yet?

dvenardos

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #262 on: 24 Feb 2011, 05:49 am »
This weekend, didn't get to it last weekend; will be ready to send this out to someone else next week. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to put on a get together, but hopefully someone else in SoCal can step up to the plate.

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #263 on: 30 Mar 2011, 04:36 pm »
Hey Fellows,

Don just has not had time to get back on these and do another listening comparison so I need to move these to the next person interested in taking the demo.

Shoot me an e-mail if you are interested, info@gr-research.com

Thanks,

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #264 on: 8 Apr 2011, 03:16 pm »
No one else in this area? Wow, where did all the wire is wire guys go?

Free demo with chance to learn something....

tubesguy2

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #265 on: 9 Apr 2011, 03:01 pm »
No one else in this area? Wow, where did all the wire is wire guys go?

Free demo with chance to learn something....

Hmm, strange, isn't it? I've found that the folks with the strongest opinions rarely want to learn something.

laserman

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #266 on: 9 Apr 2011, 03:16 pm »
Hmm, strange, isn't it? I've found that the folks with the strongest opinions rarely want to learn something.

Ditto!

Danny,
Please put me on the list of people who want to audition this unit when it tours the east coast.

L

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #267 on: 9 Apr 2011, 04:02 pm »
Right now with no more interest on the West coast, and several interested now on the East coast, it might be time for a trip across the country.

dvenardos

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #268 on: 9 Apr 2011, 08:19 pm »
Danny, why don't you put up a signup list that is more generic. I am sure there have to be people in SoCal, however, unless you know the context or read everything in the GR circle, the thread title is not instructive.

BTW: the kids (9 and 11) and I are conducting a retest as per guidelines this evening and I will post the results.

satfrat

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #269 on: 9 Apr 2011, 08:23 pm »
Danny, why don't you put up a signup list that is more generic. I am sure there have to be people in SoCal, however, unless you know the context or read everything in the GR circle, the thread title is not instructive.

BTW: the kids (9 and 11) and I are conducting a retest as per guidelines this evening and I will post the results.

How many months have you had these now?  :scratch:

dvenardos

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #270 on: 9 Apr 2011, 10:31 pm »
Yep, been ready to send them out for quite some time.

Life has been busy as a single parent with two young kids, a full-time job, a death in the family, and school work...


How many months have you had these now?  :scratch:

Davey

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #271 on: 10 Apr 2011, 04:22 pm »
No one else in this area? Wow, where did all the wire is wire guys go?

Free demo with chance to learn something....

Danny,

I think you might have gotten a much better participation in this "experiment" if you hadn't set such a condescending tone with the title and premise of the thread.  Calling (some) folks "nay-sayers, and flat-earthers" and doing so with an instructors tone is just not appropriate.

What we have here is a simple box speaker (with all its inherent problems) with two crossovers set for the exact same transfer functions.  Before I even listened to the speakers I verified that aspect of the experiment by measuring the electrical transfer functions directly at the driver terminals.  (Unfortunately, I had to repair both speakers before I could even do that.)  :)  There is a slight difference in the woofer transfer functions, but not enough to really worry about.

Anyways, the listening tests didn't take me long.  I didn't like the sound of the speakers with either crossover engaged so I quickly lost interest and re-boxed them.  :)  That being said, it wasn't difficult to hear minor audible differences between the two crossovers.  Which one I "preferred" is not really relevant and I wouldn't want to influence any future auditioners.

One suggestion I do have for future auditioners is to make sure you have an assistant do the switching so you (the listener) has no knowledge of which crossover is being utilized.

The concept of the test, I guess, is a valid one, if the implementation is done correctly (which Danny did.)  However, the conclusion may be somewhat "gray" if a person is determined to hear what he/she wants to hear.

Thank you for taking the time to modify the Behringer speakers and thanks for giving me a phone call to check up on my progress.  Unfortunately, I think the primary thing to be "learned" here is how disappointing the sound of box speakers can be.  :)

Cheers,

Dave.

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #272 on: 11 Apr 2011, 03:29 am »
Quote
I think you might have gotten a much better participation in this "experiment" if you hadn't set such a condescending tone with the title and premise of the thread.  Calling (some) folks "nay-sayers, and flat-earthers" and doing so with an instructors tone is just not appropriate.

Sorry Dave, but that was not the intent of the title. I stated it that way to get everyone's attention. 16,500 views later and it looks like it worked.

I am sorry that you had to make a few repairs. But really appreciate you taking care of them. Additional switches had to be added to each crossover after it was all installed. Working inside the box and adding several switches, wire, etc, certainly did not get my best assembly work. UPS is not exactly gentle with that stuff either. But I really do appreciate the re-solder job.

I have to agree that they are not exactly great speakers. But it is a good platform to show the differences better quality components can make.

Thanks again.

dvenardos

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #273 on: 11 Apr 2011, 03:37 am »
Took some timeout to spend about an hour setting up and doing the retest with my son.
I knew which networks were in use so we chose a song that we both are familiar with. He is a Beatles fan so we picked "Blackbird".
We listened all the way through a couple of times and then started switching back and forth with a 30 second segment (a minute into the song).
A few times back and forth and my son couldn't tell much of a difference. Then at one point he said that one of the networks sounded "cleaner", his words. I was, however, to get him guessing which network was active and he chose the other network as the "cleaner" one.

I agree with his assessment, on these speakers there isn't much of a difference between the two networks. I don't know if I would have been able to pick them out blind.

jtwrace

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #274 on: 23 Apr 2011, 07:16 pm »
any updates?

dvenardos

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #275 on: 23 Apr 2011, 08:59 pm »
Haven't heard anything on where to ship them to. I hope it isn't all the way to the east coast because that is going to cost a boatload... Would be nice to get a new thread with clear title and signup list.

jtwrace

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #276 on: 23 Apr 2011, 09:13 pm »
Haven't heard anything on where to ship them to. I hope it isn't all the way to the east coast because that is going to cost a boatload... Would be nice to get a new thread with clear title and signup list.

Did you get a chance to listen again as your above post mentioned?  I'd be curious in your final results. 

Hopefully some people across the country will be interested so you don't have to pay for a cross country trip. 

dvenardos

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #277 on: 23 Apr 2011, 10:16 pm »
Did you get a chance to listen again as your above post mentioned?  I'd be curious in your final results. 

This was my final testing. I let my son be the judge since he has no bias and young ears. I totally agreed with his conclusions. I don't think these speakers have the resolution to really be able to tell a big difference. I think one of the early posts said 6/10 people could hear a difference in the group test. I totally buy that.

My takeaway is invest in good speakers and electronics then start tweaking with caps. I can tell the difference between sonicaps and auricaps in electronics, they have a different sound. Or, I should say the auricaps have a signature and the sonicaps sound neutral to my ears. I really don't like these speakers so it is hard for me to appreciate subtle differences as both networks sound mediocre compared to the speakers I have listened to in the last couple years: Ref 100, Strata Mini, TCA WAF-1, and GR Neo 2X.

I will be upgrading the caps in my Strata Minis this summer. Perhaps I will do one speaker and then do an A/B mono test.Since I like the speaker and know the sound I will be able to tell a more subtle difference.

Took some timeout to spend about an hour setting up and doing the retest with my son.
I knew which networks were in use so we chose a song that we both are familiar with. He is a Beatles fan so we picked "Blackbird".
We listened all the way through a couple of times and then started switching back and forth with a 30 second segment (a minute into the song).
A few times back and forth and my son couldn't tell much of a difference. Then at one point he said that one of the networks sounded "cleaner", his words. I was, however, to get him guessing which network was active and he chose the other network as the "cleaner" one.

I agree with his assessment, on these speakers there isn't much of a difference between the two networks. I don't know if I would have been able to pick them out blind.

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #278 on: 24 Apr 2011, 12:01 am »
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I think one of the early posts said 6/10 people could hear a difference in the group test.

Much higher than that. From the first group...

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Overall, 88% of participants (7/8) heard "unmistakably clear" differences between the two crossovers. In addition, 75% (6/8) considered the modded speakers "a commendable bargain" at a $600/pr price point.

Next stop was Davey. I don't think Davey expected to hear a difference. However, he stated....

Quote
That being said, it wasn't difficult to hear minor audible differences between the two crossovers.

In my rig the difference was pretty significant, but I have a very resolving rig.

One more chance for someone on the West coast and then they are headed East...

Peter J

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #279 on: 24 Apr 2011, 12:34 am »
Danny, I'd be interested in giving a listen, but I'm afraid there's no group that I could gather together for a listen, just me and perhaps my DW if she's inclined to indulge me.  I've been curious since the git-go. Is a stop in Boise, ID a possibility? How to start the ball rolling?