Who else HATES Miles Davis?

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Tyson

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Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« on: 21 Jul 2013, 03:57 am »
I keep listening to all of his records, hoping, PRAYING, that, someday I will "get it".  But I never do.  I mourn the time lost on this endeavor. If only I could connect with it the way I do with Charlie Parker or Coltrane.  But alas, every time I listen to Miles I just feel like it's so much note spinning.  I've gone from ignorance to exposure to questing to apathy to hatred.  If Miles was my only exposure to Jazz, I'd hate Jazz.  Why do people love him so much?  I don't know.  But he's (IMO) the epitome of ego jazz.  Just have the band play in the background while I "genius solo" out front.  Bleh, sux azz.

geowak

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jul 2013, 04:08 am »
Just wondering why you think you should like Miles Davis music? It's a very big ocean of music out there. So much to hear. Just enjoy what you do. I did not like jazz as a kid, nor did I in my 20s, 30s or 40s. At 50 I started to really like it very much. Maybe someday you will like MD, but if you do not.... so what? No big deal.

BTW try this guy Matthew Halsall. Start with album "On the Go", "Song for Charlie". A very talented trumpeter.

Tyson

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jul 2013, 04:30 am »
Oh, he's an Icon, a pillar, a reference, a genius.  You are right, sometimes it takes time to learn to appreciate a particular artist.   But for me that time (so far) has been wasted. 

North Star

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #3 on: 21 Jul 2013, 05:02 am »
So, you dislike his music. ...About the man himself?

richidoo

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #4 on: 21 Jul 2013, 05:18 am »
Never a fan of the man or his trumpet playing. But I liked his bands and the stars he used to climb his personal ladder of success - outer success, that is. He was not content with his musical accomplishments and craved more fame, but rock left him in the dust. His personal lust for fame led him to electric, and confused a lot of young jazz fans into thinking electric Miles WAS the new jazz and that rang the death bell for the high art of jazz. Electric musicians without humility flourished for a while, playing for ignorant rock audiences that knew nothing of jazz history, but loved the chaotic atonal, contrived hyper emotional music, and the artists and record companies loved the rock money. Jazz became the Miles Davis industry. New jazz artists were used up like pop stars. It finally snuffed after Miles impersonator Marsalis failed to live up to the hype and sucked what little life remained out of the art. Now it's just a museum art, kept alive by government grants and dreamers wasting their savings recording themselves. 

To be fair to Miles, he was just a symptom of the loss of the need for nutritious music by the public. Life grew too easy, people forgot why high art music was needed. When life grows difficult again as it always does, the demand for stronger music will return, and the geniuses will create fresh new music to humbly serve us, once again.

Elizabeth

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #5 on: 21 Jul 2013, 05:27 am »
Miles Davis is a GOD.. I rank him up there with Beethoven and the Beatles..
LOL.
All his various periods are great. His ability to find talent unmatched. True his playing is not absolutely tops.. but it is pretty good.
His sense of space and the empty void between notes is stupendous.
So I love Miles Davis. And would bow at his feet anytime. Even while he asks his friends: "Who is this stupid bitch?" LOL

watercourse

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #6 on: 21 Jul 2013, 05:47 am »
Never a fan of the man or his trumpet playing. But I liked his bands and the stars he used to climb his personal ladder of success - outer success, that is. He was not content with his musical accomplishments and craved more fame, but rock left him in the dust. His personal lust for fame led him to electric, and confused a lot of young jazz fans into thinking electric Miles WAS the new jazz and that rang the death bell for the high art of jazz. Electric musicians without humility flourished for a while, playing for ignorant rock audiences that knew nothing of jazz history, but loved the chaotic atonal, contrived hyper emotional music, and the artists and record companies loved the rock money. Jazz became the Miles Davis industry. New jazz artists were used up like pop stars. It finally snuffed after Miles impersonator Marsalis failed to live up to the hype and sucked what little life remained out of the art. Now it's just a museum art, kept alive by government grants and dreamers wasting their savings recording themselves. 

To be fair to Miles, he was just a symptom of the loss of the need for nutritious music by the public. Life grew too easy, people forgot why high art music was needed. When life grows difficult again as it always does, the demand for stronger music will return, and the geniuses will create fresh new music to humbly serve us, once again.

Mostly agree. Miles isn't my favorite trumpeter, but his bands were generally tha shiznit.

Also, Marsalis is not a Miles impersonator, he's a classical musician impersonating a jazz musician, who found out he could become a well-paid interpreter of what jazz "is" and "was" to non-jazz audiences, rather than keep woodshedding and improving his chops. He then started impersonating musicologists, historians, political scientists, talked more than he played, and seemed to forget to be a musician. Later, he then started impersonating Duke Ellington, writing sprawling, huge works, until he lost his recording contract.

But it's true that we are all dealing with the loss of the heart, soul, and meaning of jazz as it's been gentrified in university halls, co-opted by audiophiles (rather than music lovers), lost its fan base and therefore new talent, and mostly dropped by labels.

North Star

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #7 on: 21 Jul 2013, 06:00 am »
I guess no matter of what we think of the man himself and his music, Miles Davis has left us a jazz legacy of various explorations during his career, in a permeability of heroin addiction; like many other great jazz musicians. ...Coltrane, Baker, ....

Miles appears on thousands of album recordings, with tons of other great musicians, and many of his tunes will keep playing for generations to come. ...And they'll enjoy them too.

And that, is the power of Miles.

firedog

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #8 on: 21 Jul 2013, 06:29 am »
Never a fan of the man or his trumpet playing. But I liked his bands and the stars he used to climb his personal ladder of success - outer success, that is. He was not content with his musical accomplishments and craved more fame, but rock left him in the dust. His personal lust for fame led him to electric, and confused a lot of young jazz fans into thinking electric Miles WAS the new jazz and that rang the death bell for the high art of jazz. Electric musicians without humility flourished for a while, playing for ignorant rock audiences that knew nothing of jazz history, but loved the chaotic atonal, contrived hyper emotional music, and the artists and record companies loved the rock money. Jazz became the Miles Davis industry. New jazz artists were used up like pop stars. It finally snuffed after Miles impersonator Marsalis failed to live up to the hype and sucked what little life remained out of the art. Now it's just a museum art, kept alive by government grants and dreamers wasting their savings recording themselves. 

To be fair to Miles, he was just a symptom of the loss of the need for nutritious music by the public. Life grew too easy, people forgot why high art music was needed. When life grows difficult again as it always does, the demand for stronger music will return, and the geniuses will create fresh new music to humbly serve us, once again.

Amazing how many shallow and incorrect generalizations can be found in two brief paragraphs.

wushuliu

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #9 on: 21 Jul 2013, 07:21 am »
I keep listening to all of his records, hoping, PRAYING, that, someday I will "get it".  But I never do.  I mourn the time lost on this endeavor. If only I could connect with it the way I do with Charlie Parker or Coltrane.  But alas, every time I listen to Miles I just feel like it's so much note spinning.  I've gone from ignorance to exposure to questing to apathy to hatred.  If Miles was my only exposure to Jazz, I'd hate Jazz.  Why do people love him so much?  I don't know.  But he's (IMO) the epitome of ego jazz.  Just have the band play in the background while I "genius solo" out front.  Bleh, sux azz.

Some people think the Beatles are overrated. Those people are crazy. You are crazy.


geowak

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jul 2013, 07:43 am »
Oh, he's an Icon, a pillar, a reference, a genius.  You are right, sometimes it takes time to learn to appreciate a particular artist.   But for me that time (so far) has been wasted.
Funny, I never think time has been wasted when I am listening to music. I have been all over the globe, met many people. I know how valuable the "free time" to listen to any music really is. Many people don't have the resources.. or the time. If you feel your time was wasted listening to Miles Davis, I guess I don't understand that feeling....

Chazro

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jul 2013, 08:08 am »
You ever seen that commercial with the guy and the kids where the kid says; "what about Infinity TIMES Infinity!. and the dude mimes his head exploding? (cute commercial).  This thread's making my head explode.  It's not so much the ignorance being stated as if it's fact but the arrogance with which it's being said.  I was gonna say more but why bother?   :duh:


....

dB Cooper

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #12 on: 21 Jul 2013, 10:47 am »
There are musicians I respect because of their significance even though I may not be moved by their work. I am NOT a fan of the late "fusion" work of Miles Davis, but much of his earlier work, especially "Kind of Blue", is great stuff. I guess all jazz fans, who made that album the biggest selling jazz album over a period of fifty years, must be idiots. You don't have to like it, but you should at least respect it. I guess all jazz fans, who made that album the biggest selling jazz album over a period of fifty years, must be idiots. If you don't like it, there's plenty of other music to listen to.

Intergalactic Wastebin, here we come...

firedog

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #13 on: 21 Jul 2013, 11:25 am »
There are musicians I respect because of their significance even though I may not be moved by their work. I am NOT a fan of the late "fusion" work of Miles Davis, but much of his earlier work, especially "Kind of Blue", is great stuff. I guess all jazz fans, who made that album the biggest selling jazz album over a period of fifty years, must be idiots. You don't have to like it, but you should at least respect it. I guess all jazz fans, who made that album the biggest selling jazz album over a period of fifty years, must be idiots. If you don't like it, there's plenty of other music to listen to.

Intergalactic Wastebin, here we come...

BTW, lets forge the fans for a moment. How many Jazz musicians have you heard dismiss Miles and his contributions? On the other hand, how many have you heard talk about how he influenced/inspired them?

Tyson

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #14 on: 21 Jul 2013, 12:00 pm »
I suppose its a particular STYLE of jazz that I really dislike, which Miles seems to be the epitome of.  It's the "let the band play in the background, marking time, while I do my THING." 

AJinFLA

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #15 on: 21 Jul 2013, 12:06 pm »
I keep listening to all of his records, hoping, PRAYING, that, someday I will "get it".  But I never do.  I mourn the time lost on this endeavor. If only I could connect with it the way I do with Charlie Parker or Coltrane.  But alas, every time I listen to Miles I just feel like it's so much note spinning.  I've gone from ignorance to exposure to questing to apathy to hatred.  If Miles was my only exposure to Jazz, I'd hate Jazz.  Why do people love him so much?  I don't know.  But he's (IMO) the epitome of ego jazz.  Just have the band play in the background while I "genius solo" out front.  Bleh, sux azz.

Hate is a pretty strong word Tyson. I'd say, like you, try as I might over decades, I just haven't been able to "get" into Miles. I see the reverence surrounding him, but I just don't hear it.
But "hate"....well, I just picked up another CD last week (Nefertiti) while at a (gasp) record store. Still not doing anything for me after several listens, but that puts me/Miles more in the "apathy" rather than "hate" category.

cheers,

AJ

dB Cooper

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #16 on: 21 Jul 2013, 12:22 pm »
"Nefertiti" is in the "fusion" era Miles catalog IIRC. Not my cup of tea. The turning point was "Bitches Brew". Can't really think of anything from that point on that I like... Miles was trying to reach the rock audience that was deserting jazz (or selling out, depending on how you look at it).

As far as the band just being there to back up Miles, that betrays IMO a lack of familiarity with his music. Miles was known for letting his band members shine (and launched/advanced many careers in the process). Listen to Kind of Blue... everybody but the drummer gets lots of solo time.

What he wasn't known for was Being A Nice Guy. One friend who saw him live said he spent most of the show facing away from the audience. He was well known for being a pr!ck. But I don't have to interact with him as a person so what the frak.

I don't understand spending a ton of time trying to "get" an artist. At some point you know whether you like them or not.  I just can't help wondering how many of the favorite players of the don't-like-Miles crowd here either played in bands with him (Parker and Trane being only two) or would cite him as an influence.

Devil Doc

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #17 on: 21 Jul 2013, 12:34 pm »
Hate is an awfully powerful word to describe one's feelings about another man's art.

Doc

Andre2

Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #18 on: 21 Jul 2013, 12:45 pm »
fame/glorification/reference/etc... of an artist (old or new) means nothing to me.  If i enjoy (bethoven, yes, king krimson, pat metheny, coltrane, jobin, etc...) I buy more cds and listen more often, if I dislike (Miles Davis, Prokofiev, jethro tull, blues in general) one cd and one session is enough.  I don't give a second thought.

Doublej

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Re: Who else HATES Miles Davis?
« Reply #19 on: 21 Jul 2013, 01:12 pm »
DUDE!

Do some heroin and you'll start to get it.

Can I hate you because I don't like your avatar?