NX-Oticas Go Active

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sledwards

NX-Oticas Go Active
« on: 31 Jul 2024, 11:25 pm »
It has been a little over 7 years since I completed my NX-Oticas and companion triple 12-inch servo subs.  Over those years, all of my equipment has been recycled at least 2 or 3 times, with the exception of the Oticas.  They definitely have stood the test of time and remain the foundation of my system.  Digital room correction (DRC) has evolved to the point where I have fully embraced it and have made it part of my system architecture.  So I decided to take the next logical step and integrate digital crossovers and DRC into a full digitally-based software solution. To accomplish this, I utilized Audiolense XO https://juicehifi.net/ to define crossovers for a 4-way stereo configuration and provide correction filters based upon the crossovers and room target curve.  The program provides a high degree of flexibility in regards to controlling all aspects of the correction filters, including driver time alignment, target type (minimum/linear phase), crossover points and slopes. Based upon my experience with other DRC software, the learning curve for Audiolense was reasonably short.





Of course the software is only part of the requirements for this type of solution. Additionally I would need 6 channels of amplification and an 8-channel DAC.  For the amplifiers, I went with my current ‘go-to’ amplifier, the Denafrips Thallo. I used two of these, one for the woofers and one for the mids. For the tweeter amplifier, I stayed within the family and picked up a Denafrips Hyperion amplifier, a cousin to the Thallo with less power output.  The DAC I decided upon was the exaSound s88 https://www.exasound.com/Products/s88StreamingDAC.aspx, an 8-channel DAC with integrated streamer. One of my requirements was the ability of the DAC to handle DSD256 input. I am a long-time HQPlayer user and have enjoyed the results of upsampling my music to high rate DSD.

The first step was relatively easy; remove the passive crossovers and route each driver(s) to individual binding posts. I used Danny’s stranded speaker hookup wire to extend the current wiring to WBT low-mass binding posts mounted to a custom small panel.  For speakers wires, I used custom-built cables fabricated using Neotech NEMOS-3080 cable terminated with Furutech locking banana plugs.  Again, by keeping all three speaker cables the same, I eliminate variability between what the drivers will see.





Initial measurements were made using Room EQ Wizard (REW) and are shown below (left channel shown). The role of these first measurements was to set the subwoofer levels and to ensure there were no glaring disparities between the driver responses.  Levels were consistent to using a single amplifier since all three amplifiers had the same gain of 26 dB.  The measurement equipment was an Earthworks M23 microphone connected to a MOTU UltraLite Mk5 USB I/O interface. The microphone was positioned at the main listening position pointed forwards.





I won’t get into the details of using Audiolense, but will present some of the key results one can obtain graphically and evaluate from the program.  The best source for user walk-throughs and examples can be found in the material presented by Mitch Barnett of Acourate Sound Reproduction Services under DSP Resources https://accuratesound.ca/resources-audio-digital-signal-processing/


The following graph shows the correction filters plotted along with a set of selected crossover curves.  Here I chose crossover points at 100, 250 and 2000Hz for demonstration (left channel shown for clarity) and you can see how the filters follow the crossover roll-offs.





Two of the primary parameters used to evaluate the effectivity of the correction filters are the predicted frequency and step response functions as shown below. Here I have generated a 6dB downward sloping target curve extending from 20 to 20kHz for a frequency response target. This of course is something the user defines and tailors to work with the acoustic characteristics of the room and personal preference.  The results show that the predicted frequency and step response functions match their respective target curve shapes very well.








For digital playback, I use Roon to serve music files to HQPlayer which runs on a dedicated, higher-powered computer.  Eight channels of correction or convolution filters (per configuration) in the form of .wav files are loaded into HQPlayer’s Matrix Pipeline and can be selected on-the-fly during playback.  There are several other programs, including Roon itself which can handle applying convolution filters to the music stream.

Listening Impressions

Thankfully, the answer to my first concern “Could this all result in a disastrous impact on the wonderful sound characteristics of the Oticas with passive crossovers?” is a resounding NO.  Nothing but pluses to the listening experience. Timbre was noticeably improved, and the attack and decay of instruments such as my favorite acoustic guitar based music was very realistic. I now have a new “knob” I can turn that definitely has an impact on the soundstage layering and imaging, and that is the ability to easily control the crossover frequencies and slopes (over a reasonable frequency range of course). In essence I can control the voicing of the speaker.  I confirmed this effect with a good friend familiar with my speakers and system. He could easily hear the differences as I switched between two  crossover configurations  with differing woofers/mids and mids/tweeter crossover points. I won’t comment on specific crossover settings we both preferred, but would rather leave that to Otica owners who may want to pursue a similar experiment to mine.

While I can safely say I am not going back to my passive crossovers, this solution is certainly not for everyone. Significant investment in time and money should be anticipated, depending upon the level of equipment selected.  I personally am very comfortable with digital audio playback and measurement using a computer and have a working knowledge of DSP.

Questions and comments are always welcome,

Steve

WGH

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #1 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:06 am »
What are your HQPlayer Noise Shaping/Dither and Filter settings? Are you upsampling all PCM to DSD256?

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #2 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:13 am »



TomS

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #3 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:19 am »
Brilliant work. I'm sure it sounds terrific. The response shown is labeled as the simulation. Do you have a measured plot?

Jon L

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #4 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:20 am »
But how is the subjective SQ comparison when room correction and all other applicable dsp is applied to PASSIVE crossover system vs DSP crossover system? (i.e. only variable is the crossover method). 

BrandonB

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Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #5 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:24 am »
I have always heard  about active crossovers not being as good as passive.  As technology has advanced maybe they have gotten better.  I have seen other people's comments in HAL's forum say almost the same thing you did about their experience with the Danville signal DSP with similar speakers.  I have a few questions.  What kind of equipment did you have in your system prior to the active crossovers?  What did you have in your passive crossovers?  I understand some of the advantages of active crossovers but do they have any kind of edgy digital harsh sound etc?

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #6 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:30 am »
Brilliant work. I'm sure it sounds terrific. The response shown is labeled as the simulation. Do you have a measured plot?

Thanks Tom. At this time I do not have the post correction measured plots. However, I have performed them in past configurations and have found the Audiolense predicted responses to be spot on.

TomS

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #7 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:48 am »
Thanks Tom. At this time I do not have the post correction measured plots. However, I have performed them in past configurations and have found the Audiolense predicted responses to be spot on.
Yes, I know JTW has excellent results with Audiolense on his M2's, amazing stuff.

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #8 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:59 am »
But how is the subjective SQ comparison when room correction and all other applicable dsp is applied to PASSIVE crossover system vs DSP crossover system? (i.e. only variable is the crossover method).
I think I can partially answer your question. I never actually made a direct comparison with only changing crossover method. When I started the experiment, I had 4 subs and only modified the Otica crossover to a 2-way. I left the passive passband between the midrange and tweeter in place. Room correction was always in place, and I was mainly interested in controlling the 4 sub integration. I only changed to the current configuration when measurements and critical listening proved I didn't really benefit from the two extra sealed subs. I then had the two extra DAC channels to replace the mid/tweeter passive crossover and get to where I am today. I truly believe it is the combination of both DRC and active crossovers that is producing the sonic improvements I have seen thus far.

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #9 on: 1 Aug 2024, 01:09 am »
I have always heard  about active crossovers not being as good as passive.  As technology has advanced maybe they have gotten better.  I have seen other people's comments in HAL's forum say almost the same thing you did about their experience with the Danville signal DSP with similar speakers.  I have a few questions.  What kind of equipment did you have in your system prior to the active crossovers?  What did you have in your passive crossovers?  I understand some of the advantages of active crossovers but do they have any kind of edgy digital harsh sound etc?
Prior to the active crossovers I was using a Holo May KTE DAC and the same Thallo amplifier. No preamp, DAC direct to amp. My passive crossovers originally had all of Danny's recommended upgrades. Along the way, I upgraded the bypass capacitors and a resistor in the tweeter network. There is absolutely no form of edginess or harshness in the presentation of my digital crossovers. Maybe some systems have components or digital processing going on that may produce harshness or "digital glare" as some call it. I have not witnessed it in my system.

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #10 on: 1 Aug 2024, 01:11 am »
Yes, I know JTW has excellent results with Audiolense on his M2's, amazing stuff.
His crossover implementation really inspired me to go this route. I was even considering trying M2's in my room for a while.

WGH

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #11 on: 1 Aug 2024, 01:20 am »


Thanks, my settings are similar. All PCM and ripped SACD's are upsampled to DSD256 but I have to be careful with the modulator or all cpu cores get maxed out and Tj Max reaches 100°C. My music server is fanless without a Nvidia graphics card.
I have a few 2L downloads in native DSD256 that can use DirectSDM.
Once in a while I check into the HQPlayer forum at AudiophileStyle to see what filter combinations most people are using. I'm currently using v5.2.0, probably time to check out the latest version.

1x oversampling: poly-sinc-gauss-long
Nx oversampling: poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp
ASDM7ECv3

I have found that HQPlayer goes a long way to not adding any edginess or harshness to the presentation along with the upsampling to DSD256.

BrandonB

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Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #12 on: 1 Aug 2024, 03:38 am »
Prior to the active crossovers I was using a Holo May KTE DAC and the same Thallo amplifier. No preamp, DAC direct to amp. My passive crossovers originally had all of Danny's recommended upgrades. Along the way, I upgraded the bypass capacitors and a resistor in the tweeter network. There is absolutely no form of edginess or harshness in the presentation of my digital crossovers. Maybe some systems have components or digital processing going on that may produce harshness or "digital glare" as some call it. I have not witnessed it in my system.
You did have nice equipment.  What was you using for volume control?  I didn't think the Holo May had volume control.

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #13 on: 1 Aug 2024, 12:00 pm »
You did have nice equipment.  What was you using for volume control?  I didn't think the Holo May had volume control.
You are correct, no volume control on May. I used digital volume control thru HQPlayer.

Glady86

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Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #14 on: 1 Aug 2024, 04:46 pm »
What type of crossover parts were in your speakers? Upgraded or standard?

 I tinkered with DSP and even Dirac Live with mini DSP units with some other speakers I own. Mainly because they were designed using DSP (ie Emerald Physics) and I wasn’t completely satisfied with the sound quality. With the NX Oticas, I never felt the need to try any eq.  I still use an analogue preamp for multiple sources,  cd LP, Amazon music via oppo 105 and firetv, I also use a tuner sometimes. Can you use different sources with that arrangement?

 Also the mini DSP units were a bit noisy in my system, it’s dead silent now. I’m guessing the equipment you use is above what the mini DSP can accomplish.

sledwards

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #15 on: 1 Aug 2024, 06:17 pm »
What type of crossover parts were in your speakers? Upgraded or standard?

 I tinkered with DSP and even Dirac Live with mini DSP units with some other speakers I own. Mainly because they were designed using DSP (ie Emerald Physics) and I wasn’t completely satisfied with the sound quality. With the NX Oticas, I never felt the need to try any eq.  I still use an analogue preamp for multiple sources,  cd LP, Amazon music via oppo 105 and firetv, I also use a tuner sometimes. Can you use different sources with that arrangement?

 Also the mini DSP units were a bit noisy in my system, it’s dead silent now. I’m guessing the equipment you use is above what the mini DSP can accomplish.




With this type of setup, only a single digital source can be used. Nothing like a Mini DSP is in the signal path, just a digital source and a DAC.



TRADERXFAN

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Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #16 on: 2 Aug 2024, 03:56 am »
Thanks for taking the time to write such a high quality and detailed post on this. Really interesting.   

KTS

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #17 on: 2 Aug 2024, 07:25 pm »
You work and attention to detail is inspiring! I do not have enough knowledge to ask an intelligent question, but exceptional execution! well done!

Danny Richie

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #18 on: 6 Aug 2024, 10:00 pm »
It looks like you did a nice job in the conversion. It is not easy or simple solution for sure. In my experience the quality of the crossover parts are so high that they have little effect on the signal (sound quality wise). However, there is a lot of variance in the sound of D/A converters. I usually recommend that our customers put their money in a good DAC and keep the passive filter, as a good DAC for each channel, plus the additional amplificant can get pretty pricey.

emailtim

Re: NX-Oticas Go Active
« Reply #19 on: 13 Aug 2024, 05:31 am »
@sledwards,

Nice rig and great looking speakers. 

Welcome to the dark side !!!

What CPU are you running and how much CPU is used by HQPlayer ?

I hope more multi-channel DAC players get into the market.