Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic

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SteveFord

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Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« on: 11 Oct 2010, 02:46 am »
I've been having some difficulties lately in keeping the azimuth adjustment to hold true on my beloved Well Tempered Classic.
I'll set it, it's fine and later on it's off a bit. 
It seems like I need more friction in the adjusting knob to keep things from slipping as the paddle sits in the goo.  Perhaps the paddle is riding too low?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

j beede

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #1 on: 12 Oct 2010, 02:27 am »
As you know it takes a while for the azimuth to "settle" after moving the arm or turning the azimuth knob. I always press down on the azimuth knob after turning it to make sure there is some friction there. The design is odd--the mass of the assembly loads the filament which in turn pulls the screw head that traps the filament against the movable gantry. If I give the know a good clockwise turn it reverses and turns CCW a bit after I release it. How much anti-skating do you have dialed in? On my WTA I can see some interference between the azimuth knob and the "fixed gantry" when anti-skating is in the maximum range. Maybe you could use a piece of blue tack or cellophane tape to "lock" the knob in place to see if that makes a difference? I adjust my azimuth frequently. I never thought about it much until I read your post.

SteveFord

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #2 on: 12 Oct 2010, 03:22 am »
I have the anti skating set just about at the minumum (bars closest together).
A bit too much anti skating and I was having a lot of problems with the inner grooves (closest to the label) skipping.
If the azimuth is off so is the anti skating. Kind of a fiddly design!  A very clever design but it seems to need some more tension on the fishing line.
I'll have to open up the bars all of the way and see what the deal is in there.

j beede

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #3 on: 12 Oct 2010, 04:10 am »
Yes, I find that the WTA generally applies too much anti-skating--I have mine set to minimum and am working on a modification to reduce it further. In terms of related rates, I think the small  change in filament length required to adjust azimuth impacts the skating compensation very slightly. Have you ever checked to see if the plane of the headshell and paddle are parallel to each other?

SteveFord

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #4 on: 12 Oct 2010, 11:13 pm »
I don't really have any accurate way to see if the headshell and paddle are parallel other than by eyeball.
An email from the folks at Stanalog got me poking around and everything was fine.  I'll post his email if I get the go ahead.
The azimuth adjusting knob was really loose feeling so I set the anti skating at maximum to give me some room and gave the shaft a shot of contact cleaner, screwed the knob way in, gave it another shot, screwed the knob way out, repeated that a few times and now it's perfect.  The adjuster knob isn't wobbly and the azimuth stays put.
There must have been some lubricant on the shaft, the threaded portion and the fishing line which was making everything spin around too freely.
If only everything were this simple.
« Last Edit: 13 Oct 2010, 01:21 am by SteveFord »

j beede

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #5 on: 13 Oct 2010, 01:05 am »
Interesting. It sounds like your azimuth adjuster might be different than mine. Mine is just a plain rod, no threads. Turning the know simply winds the filament around the shaft. Gravity is the only thing that keeps the knob and shaft assembly pulled down against the top of the movable arm assembly in my WTA.

SteveFord

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #6 on: 14 Oct 2010, 12:04 am »
There's been quite a few variations on the earlier ams - yours is the carbon fiber one, I believe? 
I got permission to reprint the email from Stanalog so here it is:

Hi Steve:

Glad you're enjoying your WTC.

Was the arm azimuth working correctly beforehand and then changed suddenly?
What changes, if any, did you make between the time the azimuth was pretty much constant across the LP and it began to drift?
Do you see the stren (nylon line) moving of its own accord during playback?
Does the amount of damping fluid in the arm's cup just barely cover the paddle, as it should? The level of fluid should be merely sufficient to secure the arm in the vertical and horizontal planes of movement.
Can the paddle/poker chip rest level in the cup with proper azimuth set-up?

Please remember that the WTA fluid acts uniquely as a "quasi" arm bearing; in effect the fluid IS the bearing, unlike other arms that use damping fluid as an additive to try to offset  mechanical shortfall or chattering, which all other arm bearings have to varying degrees. Chattering is undesirable vibration because it introduces a micro counter-action to the ideally passive retrieval/movement of the cartridge supported by the arm. In crude terms, the objective here is  to allow a rock/aka stylus to drag  through/navigate a rut/aka record groove without any other mechanical interference from the arm. The degree to which given bearings deviate from the ideal of no deviation at all is part and parcel of other pivoted arm designs. In other words, the best bearing is no bearing ,or, in practice a unique "frictionless" bearing like the WTA's.
Azimuth performance should be independent of the above.

Alongside the above, please bear in mind:
1.Too much fluid will slow down the arm's mechanical movement and interfere with the arm's tracing and tracking, kind of like too stiff suspension on a car
2. Too little fluid can allow the arm to skirt the groove wall to some extent because  the fluid isn't sufficient to act as a "quasi" bearing, kind of like too loose suspension on a car.

Let us know the answers to the 5 questions above.

Best regards,
Stanalog

I wonder if any of this would apply to your anti skating issue?

j beede

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #7 on: 14 Oct 2010, 03:02 am »
It's not easy to find help in the note from Stanalog. Is Stanalog implying that an overfilled silicone cup results in too much tension in the filaments (presumably when tracking warps) and that is causing your azimuth adjuster to "unwind" itself?

Yes, I have the classic WTA--mine has the carbon fiber arm with milled headshell and thick machined fluid cup.

SteveFord

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #8 on: 14 Oct 2010, 09:51 am »
I don't know for sure as I was able to fix the problem with contact cleaner so didn't have to ask him anything else.  It does sound like you read it correctly about if it's too deep in the goo it would apply too much tension on the line.
I've never taken one of these arms apart so wasn't sure if I had the fluid level correct when I changed it out.  Stanalog sent me a tube of it and I just put it all in the there.  That stuff is like cold STP.
For your issue, you can always drop him a line.

threadkiller

Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #9 on: 15 Oct 2010, 04:10 am »
Sounds like Stanalog is telling you too much fluid results in an overdamped arm, the reverse is too little.  When I had a WTClassic and arm I never even thought about the string.  You seem to be caught up in some string theories...:)  Once my azimuth is set, I'm done. I have too many leaves coming down and other things to worry about.

j beede

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Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #10 on: 15 Oct 2010, 11:54 pm »
Yes, I agree far too many leaves to worry about. It's the leaves.

threadkiller

Re: Azimuth Adjustment on Well Tempered Classic
« Reply #11 on: 17 Oct 2010, 12:34 am »
Hi Mr Beede, I'm just curious (and no snarky intent meant), why so much adjusting of the azimuth?  different pressings, vinyl grams, or what?