AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: hibuckhobby on 6 Feb 2013, 12:35 am
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OK...I'm gonna gush a little. I have been in the audio hobby for over 40 years and
seriously into headphones for about a year and a half. I've tried ortho's and have
come to the conclusion I prefer dynamics. I also tend to prefer tubes to solid state.
If you are a detail freak, ymmv, but for me it's tone, tone, tone.
I have heard the buzz for some time about the Bottlehead amps and how good the Crack
is with a high impedance phone. I have to say...I am NOT disappointed! I have other
highly regarded, far more expensive tube headphone amps, but there is something about
the bottlehead and the HD600's or 650's that is so far better than it ought to be at the
price point. I don't listen to metal or much rap, but pretty much everything else.
Diana Krall singing "Little Girl Blue" is the best I've heard it...and "Santiago" by Acoustic
Alchemy pulls you into the soundstage.
I'm not a believer in $50 giant killers...but at the price point, the Crack and the Senns are good
enough that I'm thinking about selling my high priced stuff and getting lost in the music.
regards,
Hibuck....
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Hibuck:
I love my Bottlehead Foreplay II preamp that has pushed out a couple of more pricey pre's and is now in my main system. I can totally understand why you would love the Crack for the headphones. Doc B (Bottlehead Founder) is bringing true audiophile to those on a beer budget!
Jim
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Guys link me up please......sounds like something I'd enjoy. Are they built already??
Thanks :thumb:
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You can buy them as kits or can pay them to assemble them. The kits are $279 plus shipping.
I'm not sure what it costs to have them built. www.bottlehead.com
Hibuck....
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I just tried to find the price for assembly but they ask you to call (206-451-4275) to find out. Also read heavy testimonials on the way down to that number... They will advise price and estimated delivery time... Also read about the Speedball upgrade for the Crack. These folks are wonderful to deal with
and the sound quality is awesome!
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:dance: Thanks guys!!!
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You will not be dissapointed with the Crack. Get the Speedball upgrade. Kicks it up another couple of notches. My HD600s have never sounded better.
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You can buy them as kits or can pay them to assemble them. The kits are $279 plus shipping.
I'm not sure what it costs to have them built. www.bottlehead.com
Hibuck....
Add $150 extra for the pre-built version. Crack and sennhs are meant for each other 8)
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Huh... no kidding. Looks like an interesting piece at a nice price. Will this mate well with the "$27 wonder phone"? Is that high impedance enough?
and did you notice its upgrade? http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/speedball-upgrade-for-crack-amplifier
These guys are very local, I'm gonna have to stop in one of these days. Bring my Ncores for fun.
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Huh... no kidding. Looks like an interesting piece at a nice price. Will this mate well with the "$27 wonder phone"? Is that high impedance enough?
and did you notice its upgrade? http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/speedball-upgrade-for-crack-amplifier
These guys are very local, I'm gonna have to stop in one of these days. Bring my Ncores for fun.
Doc B and Queen Eileen are very down to earth and who knows, you might just come away with a new appreciation of tube gear. Maybe you will be able to hear Doc's Nagra Reel to Reel setup that is simply sublime.
(http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57299&d=1303481265)
Jim
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The Crack, like all bottlehead products plays well, and I mean WELL above their price points. Yes, it's a kit, and the basic kits are always good, but when you intelligently and methodically go about upgrading a few key parts they can truly play with the best high-end commercial and custom stuff out there. I've owned audio note, shindo, Fi, and others and my system now consists of as much bottlehead gear as is available. I'll never go back, and I'm a really, really hard set of ears to please. To me it's not a value if the sonics aren't there, but as they just happen to be, the value factor is off the charts.
I also need to say that most of the people who buy and successfully build these kits have no electronics background at all. The manuals are by far the best in the business. Not like some other company that will send you a circuit board, a bag of parts and a picture of the finished board. If you're missing a part, or you ruin it during assembly, they'll send you a new one, free.
As to the Crack itself, I was able to hear the Sennheiser hd-800s on every headphone amp I could find at RMAF 2011, as I was considering the 800s but wanted to make sure they would work for my very particular ears. Well, until I got to the Bottlehead table I wouldn't have thought the 800s worth the money. What I heard with the Crack was completely game-changing, made the 800s an easy choice, and introduced me to a whole new level of headphone sonics. The only other amp at the show that even sounded remotely good to my ears at the show was the ALO continental, but it just was not the same, and was also noticeably noiisy, wher the Crack (even with AC heaters) was silent. This is a very easy and simple kit to build, is directly coupled between first and second stages and responds extremely well to a few upgrades, which folks on the forum go over in great detail.
If you live close by, they often have friday afternoon listening sessions on the big system, but don't miss the smaller systems especially with the Blumenstein Orca speakers. Guaranteed to amaze and enchant.
Seriously, the bulk of my system is all bottlehead gear, and all speakers here are blumenstein. There's a real good reason for that -- not just that I love to build and tune these things, but that they really do deliver the goods. The Crack is a great place to start, but the Quickie Preamp and the s.e.x. amp v2.1 are also insanely good for the money.
-- Jim
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Well that's a ringing endorsement. What's better for headphones you think? The upgraded Crack or the S.E.X? They aren't that far apart in price.
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The S.E.X. is better with low impedance phones and is more powerful,
so it plays well with orthodynamic cans. The OTL Crack is IMO better
with high impedance cans such as the Senns and Beyers. There seems
to be a particular synergy with Sennheiser phones.
Hibuck....
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Yes, to some extent it will depend on the impedance of your cans -- but some people have liked the Crack with their low impedance cans too, and still others simply like the sound of the s.e.x. 2.1 -- which is a totally different animal soundwise from the 2.0. If you're closebhy, the best thing to do is to just make an appointment and go over with your cans and listen to both. Not sure if I mentioned it, but the s.e.x. 2.1 can be setup as a balanced amp with just a few parts and changing the headphone jack. I've not finished my s.e.x. 2.1, so I can't comment on it's sound with the hd-800s, but I did hear one at RMAF with my Shure SE 425 IEMs and it sounded very nice with them. And as hibuck says, the s.e.x. is very nice with the orthos and even the AKG K1000s.
Good folks over there at BH and the forum there is the best one I've ever been on -- friendly, helpful and encouraging, not to mention full of a lot of very smart and creative folks. The one thing about the forum that can be a bit misleading is that most people post there looking for help, and that can skew the view a bit and make some people think these kits are nothing but trouble, but the fact is that most people are only posting for help when things go wrong, and the vast majority of BH owners never have to post there unless they are posting pictures, asking questions about upgrades, or simply singing the praises of BH gear and how fun and addicting the kit building is.
-- Jim
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Ok, I'm a total headphone noob. I had a pair of Sennheiser 212Pro's running on an deluxe Audigy Soundcard that had a headphone preamp built in with volume knob. That's the extent of my experience.
I do eventually want to get into phones, just for that something different, and to also be able to rock out at night.
What do low or high impedance phones bring to the table? I'm assuming they're both good?
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I am considering giving their battery operated preamp a try, anyone had experience with it?
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Randy,
You can't really generalize based on impedance alone -- it's more about individual cans, though impedance can play a part. To answer your question even remotely completely would take a book. :-) They do have a fairly good selection of different headphones at BHQ, but they also from time to time host local get togethers for head-fi enthusiasts, in which people bring all kinds of stuff -- so much so that it is nearly impossible to hear everything at eevery gathering. If you want to get into headphones, this is really the best way to go -- to hear lots of different headphones on a variety of amps -- the range of sound signatures can be very wide and until you try a few differentpairings, you'll never know what floats your boat. Or you can buy a bunch of stuff, find you don't like it, sell it and try again -- very expensive and you may never find exactly what you want or know if there's something else out there that just does it for you.
Underdog, strongly suggest you check out the bottlehead forum -- more than enough impressions there, as well as ideas for modification, including how to modify the Quickie for headphone use. Though it is said to be only so-so as a headphone amp, but easily competes with preamps 20+ times it's cost as a preamp. Not my words, those of several other folks who have done side-by-side comparisons. Now they have a brand new 1.1 version that is even simpler, has fewer parts and is said to sound at least as good. As usual, the bottlehead forum and web page is the best place to et a sense of what the products are like. After all, I'm just one person with my particular tasts in audio and music and one who happens to love a good SET amp and single driver speakers (when they're right, which is really, really hard to do to my satisfaction), and who can't stand things like planar speakers, multi-ways, big SS amps, Grado headphones, etc. -- their sound signatures simply do not work for me, not that they are bad or flawed in anyway. I've had all such things over the 40+ years I've been into audio and have finally figured out what, and what compromises fit me and my listening space and musical tastes.
HTH,
Jim
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Thanks I will try their forum direct, I just prefer this forum to most others.
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There you go making it waay too complicated, the typical audiophile answer of there is no answer, first attend a local palm reading, all that stuff. :thumb:
How about just list a few headphones that might match well with either amp and I can take it from there? If I could replicate the sound of my planar speakers powered by big SS amps I'd be in heaven :green: :lol:
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There you go making it waay too complicated, the typical audiophile answer of there is no answer, first attend a local palm reading, all that stuff. :thumb:
How about just list a few headphones that might match well with either amp and I can take it from there? If I could replicate the sound of my planar speakers powered by big SS amps I'd be in heaven :green: :lol:
How about you taking your favorite phones on a boat trip out to the island that Bottlehead is headquartered and report back to us which one sounds best for you and your headphones.
Come visit Bottleheadquarters
9415 Coppertop Loop NE Suite 101
Bainbridge Island, WA 98110
best to call ahead so we can have our listening rooms warmed up for you 206-451-4275
Heck, they have a cool Headphone room with several of the top Headphones:
(http://www.bottlehead.com/listeningstationweb.jpg)
Jim
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I'm really glad I've learned about you guys at Bottlehead. I just bought a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s and have been looking at Woo Audio (WA2) and Decware amps to drive them, but came across the good press about the Crack today and now I'm thinking that the Speedball version may be the way to go. Is it merely a coincidence that I can see Bainbridge Island from my living room window? I live on a hill above the Fauntleroy ferry dock in West Seattle. I think I may have to hop on a boat and come listen to your amps!
Matt
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I'm really glad I've learned about you guys at Bottlehead. I just bought a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s and have been looking at Woo Audio (WA2) and Decware amps to drive them, but came across the good press about the Crack today and now I'm thinking that the Speedball version may be the way to go. Is it merely a coincidence that I can see Bainbridge Island from my living room window? I live on a hill above the Fauntleroy ferry dock in West Seattle. I think I may have to hop on a boat and come listen to your amps!
Matt
Matt:
Just to be clear, I'm not with Bottlehead or have any affiliation with them other than an owner of a Bottlehead Foreplay.
Jim
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Matt,
Same with me -- just a very satisfied customer, no connection to Bottlehead other than as an owner of their gear.
-- Jim
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What they said :thumb:
Hibuck....
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Alright, those are some pretty appealing pics and looks like I can just make a decision when I get there. I won't go unless I have a wad of cash to spend though, so I'll wait till spring.
I love the idea though. A tube powered headphone system seperate from my main system and it's a kit. And they show you how to build it (SOMEONE GETS IT, AC VENDORS TAKE NOTICE).
I'm envisioning one of these amps, with my passive Warpspeed LDR as "preamp" for that setup... guess I'll have to bring that with me to the demo. and then Dual Core running my main rig Ncores/Maggies/subs. Although by the time I get to that it will be new version of Dual Core. Right now saving for a motorcycle, all audio stuff is on pause.
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No problem gentlemen! I'm just happy to have learned that headphone amps of this caliber are available to audition right here in my area. I've bought a lot of pretty pricey equipment over the years but have never had a chance to hear any of it before buying, just read about it.
Thanks
Matt
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OK...I'm gonna gush a little. I have been in the audio hobby for over 40 years and
seriously into headphones for about a year and a half. I've tried ortho's and have
come to the conclusion I prefer dynamics. I also tend to prefer tubes to solid state.
If you are a detail freak, ymmv, but for me it's tone, tone, tone.
I have heard the buzz for some time about the Bottlehead amps and how good the Crack
is with a high impedance phone. I have to say...I am NOT disappointed! I have other
highly regarded, far more expensive tube headphone amps, but there is something about
the bottlehead and the HD600's or 650's that is so far better than it ought to be at the
price point. I don't listen to metal or much rap, but pretty much everything else.
Diana Krall singing "Little Girl Blue" is the best I've heard it...and "Santiago" by Acoustic
Alchemy pulls you into the soundstage.
I'm not a believer in $50 giant killers...but at the price point, the Crack and the Senns are good
enough that I'm thinking about selling my high priced stuff and getting lost in the music.
regards,
Hibuck....
Don't ever try to push me... Looks like another for senn's borning or something.
I have HD650 and am looking for a better amp which now I'm using Solo Ultra Linear. Is this one really as good as what you described? Really a giant killer?
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Don't ever try to push me... Looks like another for senn's borning or something.
I have HD650 and am looking for a better amp which now I'm using Solo Ultra Linear. Is this one really as good as what you described? Really a giant killer?
Hmmm...where do you see pushing? Didn't say giant killer...said I'm skeptical of the very
terminology...BUT that I was pleasantly surprised by how I like the Bottlehead.
Will you like
it as well...who knows? Can't speak for your ears or your preferences.
What your attitude appears to be on the other hand :scratch:
Hibuck....
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I just picked up a used pair of Beyer DT880's and have been quite pleased
with how they pair with the Crack as well. Plenty of output and great mid-range
tonality. The bass depends quite a bit on the output tube I'm using. Taut
and fast with a NOS 6080 and a bit more lean and delicate with a Svetlana
6SA7 clone.
Hibuck...
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The crack has been on my wish list of gear to try for years now. The hd650 is my all time favorite can and of course I keep hearing about the pairing with the Crack. I have to honest though, it will be tough to knock me off the lyr with a nice set of tubes. They are incredibly incredibly nice with the hd650.
But there is a meet coming up in Atlanta this May and the Crack will be there!! Can't wait to finally hear it.
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Hibuck my friend you have a serious list of cans now don't you?? Just casually seeing your posts I'm guessing you have like 8-10 pair, am I close??? LOL.....
I have 4 fullsize cans, and like way too any IEM's.....I'll count here soon....
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Actually...I have owned many sets...but have also sold quite a few. Right now,
I have 6 sets: ATW1000, Senn HD600, Senn HD650, Denon D7000 and Beyer DT880.
I've settled in with 4 0r 5 amps...but may sell at least one more. Headroom Supreme,
Headroom Home, Bottlehead Crack, Woo WA6, Woo WA2. It's still fun to dream about
more/other setups, but for me, I'm at the point of diminishing returns. Still may buy a
HD800 down the road as I find I prefer tubes and dynamic cans to planars/ortho's/stat's.
No IEM's...well, not yet anyway :oops:
Hibuck....
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I guess that I feel lucky that to my ears, the hd650 sounds about perfect. I'd love to audition the hd800 but know that I could never afford it. :cry:
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Hibuck nice cans man...lol!!! :lol:
There are a couple there I'd thought about-if I'm thinking of the right model #s.
Time to sell my Asgard I think as my tablet and fiio E07 rig is my main headphone listening setup.
Things change so fast these days in the mobile segment of the headphone thing that a bottlehead isn't
going to fit in my world as I had once hoped.
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Hey...different strokes and all that. I don't have a true "mobile" setup
and am almost always in some sort of recliner when I listen. Only
downside is the tendency to fall asleep when I do that :roll:
best,
Hibuck....
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Headphones + Recliner = snooze every time for me, its like almost impossible for me not to fall asleep.
Sometimes its a drag actually because I want to hear the music, listen to it closely or the equipment its playing through and I always fall asleep....LOL....its crazy!!! LOL.....I guess its subliminal listening if that's even a thing.... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Enjoy!!!
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I guess that I feel lucky that to my ears, the hd650 sounds about perfect. I'd love to audition the hd800 but know that I could never afford it. :cry:
Most of the Bottlehead owners recommend a speedball upgrade for the HD800's. Do you have the stock version? or its already modded?
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Speedball with any cans...
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Hibuckhobby,
Not sure if you are still reading this old thread...but quick quesiton. Of the five amps you listed, any favorites? I run a HD650 and am wondering about a tube amp. While I'd love a balanced comment, the crack seem to be a tremendous deal if one builds. Does yours have the upgrade?
Thanks,
UL
Actually...I have owned many sets...but have also sold quite a few. Right now,
I have 6 sets: ATW1000, Senn HD600, Senn HD650, Denon D7000 and Beyer DT880.
I've settled in with 4 0r 5 amps...but may sell at least one more. Headroom Supreme,
Headroom Home, Bottlehead Crack, Woo WA6, Woo WA2. It's still fun to dream about
more/other setups, but for me, I'm at the point of diminishing returns. Still may buy a
HD800 down the road as I find I prefer tubes and dynamic cans to planars/ortho's/stat's.
No IEM's...well, not yet anyway :oops:
Hibuck....
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Only updates are tubes. Just love the nos 2399 with the hd6xx Senns.
Haven't done speedball yet because I like the Crack well enough to
sell my WA2.
Hibuck...
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The beauty of Doc B's designs are that in their original form are damn good and there are mods that take them to the next level. I truly believe that the Bottlehead Company is one of the best things about the audiophile world.
Jim
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The BeePre 300B preamp kit looks interesting. :eyebrows: I wonder if they have a loaner I could bring home? I live about 30 miles North of their shop/store.
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Like it so much with the Senn. HD6XX series that I just bought another one.
Gonna put a Speedball on one and leave the other one stock. I have a
2399 for the stock one and a 5998 for the modded one.
Hibuck....
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I do quite a bit of headphone listening lately, but only use IEMs. How would the Crack work with them? My current favorites are Shure SE210s and the amazingly comfortable Klipsch X10s.
Over the ear cans don't work for me as they irritate/rub my right ear and can only be worn for 20 minutes without pain.
Building the kit looks like a fun project to get my grandson involved with.