$175 Class D amp--120 wpc

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corndog71

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2600 on: 3 May 2011, 06:00 am »
While it's certainly up to you to decide on the location of the gain pots, I hope you aren't confusing them with a normal volume control.  All they are meant to do is match your preamp's output to the gain of the amp.  You basically set it when you hook it up to your preamp and then you shouldn't need to mess with them anymore.  The preamp is used for master volume.

A lot of the guys here measure the resistance of the pot at the gain setting that works for them.  Then they remove the pot and replace it with a simple high quality resistor of that same value.  The supplied pots are pretty cheap and will degrade the sound slightly.  A good resistor will be much more transparent.

wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2601 on: 3 May 2011, 01:25 pm »
Thanks.  You are right.  I appreciate the feedback.  Having them on the front only invites fiddling.

By the way, how do you determine what the optimal gain is?  I just have it turned all the way up. Assuming that is the case, does that mean zero resistance (and do I then just connect the wires), and also since there are 3 wires in this thing, and two in a resistor, what gets connected?

wgscott

60 Hz hum
« Reply #2602 on: 3 May 2011, 03:37 pm »
When I fire up the amp, I can hear a very faint ~60 Hz hum, both directly from the unit and in the speakers.  It is preamp-volume independent.  Is this normal?

I haven't yet grounded anything.  I still don't know what to do with the purple grid wire.  Would that help, or am I more likely to create a ground loop?

corndog71

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2603 on: 3 May 2011, 03:44 pm »
I don't think you'll hurt anything by grounding that purple wire.  Try it and see what happens.

In my amp The boards are grounded to my box but I have yet to connect the box to the ground connection of my IEC jack.  There's just a tiny hint of noise that I have to get my ear right up to the speaker to hear.  This could also be from my my preamp.  I'll have to disconnect the preamp to see for sure.

I've also experienced a hum and slight vibration from my transformer but it's intermittant and most of the time is silent.  Can't explain that except it's not the first time I've experienced that from these kinds of toroidal transformers.

If you go back through the thread you should be able to find guys that swapped the pots for resistors and showing their work.
« Last Edit: 3 May 2011, 04:51 pm by corndog71 »

wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2604 on: 5 May 2011, 04:04 am »
OK, I volunteered via a PM with another member to get some info from Tom (the amp designer) on the gain resistors/pot situation. Here is his response:

First, the amps are AC coupled (EDIT BY RAINDANCE - So you can try them with your Little Dot Mk III if you want). The gain is in the first stage of the amp.

 

I was very careful in selecting the pots that come with the amps. They feature high quality conductive elements and are pretty much dead quiet. Of course, you can use stepped attenuators for possibly a little better performance, but most could never be able to hear the difference. These do not come with the kits because as I’m sure you already know, you can spend allot more money on quality stepped attenuators than the cost of the amp kit. Fixed resistors are another and possibly the best choice as long as you know the correct gain to set the amp at to get the most out of your preamp or other input device. Without taking this into account and just changing to a fixed resistor, it is possible that you won’t achieve the optimum sound quality from your equipment if your preamp is not matched correctly to the amp and adjusted to find the maximum and optimum sweet spot of the preamps volume control. Distortion from the preamp can be a problem on many units if the volume control is turned up too high, and you also might not be getting the best from your preamp if the volume is turned too low… they are all different.

 

To put it simpler…

 

The gain controls are used to match the amplifier’s gain to the gain of the other amplifiers in the system as in active or passive preamps, DAC, iPod or mp3 players, etc. The gain controls allow you to match the amplifier to the input device. Not all input devices have the same maximum preamp output voltage. Some preamps are capable of producing 15 volts RMS out while others are only capable of 1.5 Volts RMS out. Most preamps or other input device will reach its maximum output level (clipping) well before the volume control reaches the upper end of its range, usually at a point of 75-90% of its maximum range.

 

For those who wish to change the pots for fixed resistors, here are resistor values to produce required gain. Gain is listed in dB: To change gain potentiometer to a fixed resistor, you would connect a fixed resistor between the yellow and black wires on the gain controls (of course, remove the gain pots). Leave the red wire disconnected.

 

Use high quality 1% resistors:

 

560 Ohm = 31 dB

 

1K = 30 dB

 

2.2K = 27 dB

 

5.2K = 23 dB

 

6.2K = 18 dB

 

7.5K = 16 dB

 

I hope this is of some help. Please feel free to post this on the forums if it will help others. On my personal systems here, I use the same pots that come with the kits.


Well I found this on p. 113 with Google.  I'm not really sure how to proceed, as I basically have no idea how to find the optimal gain (turn it down and the preamp volume up to restore the initial volume and see if it sounds better or worse?).  There must be a more objective way.

wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2605 on: 5 May 2011, 04:14 am »
Hi, First of all, I don't know which model you have. From what I understand the units come with approximately 32DB of gain. Now, that's ok if you have a buffer, or passive Pre-amp  which has no gain. if you have the CD units, before you buy, you should ask tom to make it approximately 27DB of gain, which is about standard in the industry for amplifiers. Now if you have a SDS unit, it has a buffer built in, as well as providing a volume pot for each channel. At max the gain is
32DB. Rather than dial it down and guess if you have the gain set correctly, you can just sub these pots out for resistors of specific values. It appears that certain brands of resistors do make a difference in sound. If you are using a pre-amplifier, then you want to have at least the lower 27DB of gain, which means you need a 2.2 K-ohm  resistor.

This DB gain factor is from 0 at input to 27DB at output. I'll let the more technically minded give you a further explanation.

So to answer your question, as a summary, if you are using a buffer, then leave the gain at max 32DB. if you are using an active  pre-amplifier, SolidState or Tube, then you need to lower the gain to at least the standard 27DB. Hope this helps.

Now, some have lowered the gain anyway even though they had a buffer, and the sound improved.

Ray Bronk

I guess this answers my other question, more or less (still wondering how you find the sweet spot in practice).
A summary thread comprised of some of these posts like the last two could be really useful.

mikeeastman

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2606 on: 5 May 2011, 05:26 pm »
I'm building a SDS 254 that is 12 volt d/c powered and want to know what size fuse to use? There is a 30 amp fuse in my Dodd built CDA 254, so I would think it would be the same?

wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2607 on: 5 May 2011, 06:00 pm »
If I decide to (passively) bi-amp, is it best to retain the ability to adjust the gain of bass vs mid/treble (or vice-versa), or is it best to assume identical gains would strike the correct balance?

TrungT

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2608 on: 5 May 2011, 06:29 pm »
Mike
There are a fuse already on your DC power supply, you don't really need one.
But it does not hurt to add more, and 20A on mine.

mikeeastman

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2609 on: 6 May 2011, 01:03 am »
Thanks Tung



   Mike

boomer68

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2610 on: 6 May 2011, 09:02 pm »
just a update on my cda-224 amp. I have had it up and running for the last couple of monthes and why i didnt pull the trigger long before. It is my main amp now and im thinking about getting a bigger one now. great product!

wushuliu

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2611 on: 7 May 2011, 08:22 am »
Yeah, I am doing some round robin with amps and receivers the past few days and just put the CDA254 I had on woofer duty back to main with my new full range speakers and man it just sounds really frickin' good. Which I knew exactly what causes some to experience 'lean' bass and recessed mids, this is the 3rd or 4th set of speakers I've matched the CDAs and they are just smooooth every time and nice and full (no DCB1 at this time though to add that punch and 3-D effect). Just relaxes me right away to listen to it.

mikeeastman

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2612 on: 7 May 2011, 10:53 pm »
I'm about to wire up my class D SDS 254= Dodd tube buffer and wasn't sure of all the connection. Here is diagram of what I think are some of the connection, does the negative  from the class D go to ground buss? if so were do I connect ground from class D or is it not used? Can I connect the 3uf sonicap direct to class D  + inputs?




wgscott

Remote-control IR-activated relay for power switch
« Reply #2613 on: 8 May 2011, 05:35 am »
Has anyone installed an IR-activated remote-control relay for a power switch?  I'd really like to do this but haven't a clue how to go about it.

I recently found this thing on the interweb:
http://www.tauntek.com/tinyir2-learning-ir-remote-control-receiver.htm

It seems like the right thing, but maybe a bit advanced for me.  Also, I have no idea how to find a suitable relay and to hook the two up.

mikeeastman

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2614 on: 9 May 2011, 02:31 pm »
With a lot of great help from Gary and Trung got 90% of class D/ tube buffer put together, just waiting on RCAs I ordered to arrive. Here are some pics. If anyone sees anything that not right or could be done better please let me know as I'm still pretty new at this.
  Mike








mikeeastman

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2615 on: 9 May 2011, 09:08 pm »
Trung informed me by pass caps were wired wrong in earlier pics I posted, here is correct pic.


criv911

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2616 on: 9 May 2011, 11:48 pm »
I'm having trouble with my SDS-4 amps. I am using them in bridged mode. I get nothing out of one and the other has a very bad hum. I also am using SDS-254's, and they are working fine. I have tried switching inputs to no avail. How do I need to have the jumpers. I believe the gain pot need only be on the bridged side, right?

NeilT

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2617 on: 10 May 2011, 09:45 pm »
Hi Mike,

Looks like you are running direct from buffer to amp?
How are you going to attenuate the signal?

Neil

mikeeastman

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2618 on: 10 May 2011, 11:04 pm »
Hi Neil
     
   If you mean adjust the volume, then I use my Mac. I have the Spacial system which basically turns your Mac into a pre and  eq. I use Itunes to control the analog volume control in my Dac.

          Mike

topp

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2619 on: 11 May 2011, 08:31 pm »
I need some more help from you guys.  I want to use this amp with my home theater receiver.  I would like the amp to turn on and off with the receiver, automatically.  Can you guys help me out on how to do this and what is needed?

Thanks,
Topp