[wappinghigh]

We can output DSD via the USB ports on the back of the BDP and another one of our more senior engineers, Dan is working on givin the BDA-2 async DSD USB in via a software update for the BDA-2.  Also due to the hype of DSD a protocol has been developed to wrap PCM around DSD so that PCM devices can play DSD files. The thin I don't get it where do you get DSD files from (besides SACD a format that never took off)? 

Cheers,
Chris

Well that's great. Cool. Bring it on. 

[SGK]

"The thin I don't get it where do you get DSD files from (besides SACD a format that never took off)? "
********
One source:
http://www.channelclassics.com/dsd.html

Steve

I love this.  So many people think DSD is better.  Hmmm...business plan...let's take a bunch of LPCM tracks, convert them to DSD and sell them to all those thinking DSD is better than LPCM!!  Oops....it's being done already.

[terrycym]

I love this.  So many people think DSD is better.  Hmmm...business plan...let's take a bunch of LPCM tracks, convert them to DSD and sell them to all those thinking DSD is better than LPCM!!  Oops....it's being done already.

Why do you say that?
The comapny say they record in DSD...
http://www.channelclassics.com/equipment/

[srb]

Another company that records in DSD
Blue Coast Records

Steve

[terrycym]

Another company that records in DSD
Blue Coast Records

Steve

Here's a list which is not necessarily complete
http://dsd-guide.com/where-can-you-find-dsd-music-downloads

[Marius]

Here's a list which is not necessarily complete
http://dsd-guide.com/where-can-you-find-dsd-music-downloads

And check this for a lot of very interesting info: http://diydsd.blogspot.nl

Marius

[Napalm]

I've came to the conclusion that DSD (or any other format) is only as good as the recording. The format by itself is not a warrant of the quality of the content.

I've listened to so many atrocious SACDs that it's not even funny. Just listen to Eric Clapton's "Slowhand" on SACD.

With your ears still bleeding, you may eventually admit that DSD/SACD was nothing but a feeble attempt to introduce a new (heavily patented) format, with a heavy dose of copy protection added for good measure. It was designed to fulfill some corporate needs/wishes, not consumer's ones.

People generally can live with multiple formats but not with the ones that prevent them to do whatever they want to do. Only the very stubborn will persevere. Good luck to those, I have better uses for my time than fight with something that was purposefully designed to stay in my way.

[James Tanner]

I've came to the conclusion that DSD (or any other format) is only as good as the recording. The format by itself is not a warrant of the quality of the content.

I've listened to so many atrocious SACDs that it's not even funny. Just listen to Eric Clapton's "Slowhand" on SACD.

With your ears still bleeding, you may eventually admit that DSD/SACD was nothing but a feeble attempt to introduce a new (heavily patented) format, with a heavy dose of copy protection added for good measure. It was designed to fulfill some corporate needs/wishes, not consumer's ones.

People generally can live with multiple formats but not with the ones that prevent them to do whatever they want to do. Only the very stubborn will persevere. Good luck to those, I have better uses for my time than fight with something that was purposefully designed to stay in my way.

I tend to agree Napalm but as a manufacturer it is tough not to respond to the demands of your customer even though you see through some of the hypocrisy it may involve. I guess all we can do is try to educate people as to the realities of some of these issues as we see them and hope than truth wins out in the long run.

james

[Napalm]

[...] it is tough not to respond to the demands of your customer [...]

Agreed but... since your engineers are a limited resource I'd prefer to hear about them working on something that has real chances to improve sound quality than spending their time on a dead end.

To be more specific, you recently posted an article about spectrum vs. phase degradation effects. It provided a fantastic example with a speech fragment from the "Casablanca" movie.

On these lines I believe that it would be more useful to do some research on phase preservation and clock stability/ jitter for the Bryston DAC box. If you can get rid of having to sync to a (dubious) external clock and use instead a high quality internal one, I believe this could have more impact on sound quality than being able to play DSD streams.

And no I'm not in the "rubidium clock" camp, personally I believe that low jitter/stability is more important than the frequency precision. I had my share of turn tables and tape players and I know that having the "pitch" slightly off but stable is very tolerable, while having it even slightly varying (wov and flutter) is not.

[James Tanner]

Agreed but... since your engineers are a limited resource I'd prefer to hear about them working on something that has real chances to improve sound quality than spending their time on a dead end.

To be more specific, you recently posted an article about spectrum vs. phase degradation effects. It provided a fantastic example with a speech fragment from the "Casablanca" movie.

On these lines I believe that it would be more useful to do some research on phase preservation and clock stability/ jitter for the Bryston DAC box. If you can get rid of having to sync to a (dubious) external clock and use instead a high quality internal one, I believe this could have more impact on sound quality than being able to play DSD streams.

And no I'm not in the "rubidium clock" camp, personally I believe that low jitter/stability is more important than the frequency precision. I had my share of turn tables and tape players and I know that having the "pitch" slightly off but stable is very tolerable, while having it even slightly varying (wov and flutter) is not.

The jitter on the BDP-1 and 2 is very low - in the 8 ps range.

james

[Napalm]

The jitter on the BDP-1 and 2 is very low - in the 8 ps range.

james

I don't question the specs, but that is when measured inside the BDP at the oscillator's terminals.

How does it measure at BDA's DAC clock input (assuming the boxes are connected via coax / optical, let's not even mention USB)?

[James Tanner]

I don't question the specs, but that is when measured inside the BDP at the oscillator's terminals.

How does it measure at BDA's DAC clock input (assuming the boxes are connected via coax / optical, let's not even mention USB)?

Sorry I should have been more specific - that is the measurement with the BDA DAC in the loop as well.

james

[Napalm]

Sorry I should have been more specific - that is the measurement with the BDA DAC in the loop as well.

james

As long as you measure at the BDP's oscillator terminals it doesn't make any difference if the BDA is connected or not. The BDP has a fixed frequency oscillator and that's all about it.

I'm asking about measuring inside the BDA box. It's supposed to sync to the BDP clock via a PLL circuit that tries to reconstruct the clock from the signals that come via coax / optical. That's the interesting point - i.e. how well is the clock signal recovered after it has traversed the cables.

So my questions still stands and I'll make it more specific: what's the jitter measured at the clock input of the integrated circuit of DAC type that resides inside the BDA box?

[SGK]

So full measurement source through to analog playback? Did you ever consider upgrading the MB clocks?

[Napalm]

So full measurement source through to analog playback? Did you ever consider upgrading the MB clocks?

Not really full, that would be quite difficult to measure. Assuming that the MB clock is ok, the measurement I suggested would help evaluate only the effects of what they call here "interface jitter":

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/jitter1_e.html

If you want end to end, the folks at Stereophile did it for the BDA-1:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-bda-1-da-converter-measurements

quote: "[...] the Bryston BDA-1 offered moderate suppression of word-clock jitter [...] The Miller Analyzer calculated there to be 456 picoseconds peak–peak of jitter-related sidebands, primarily at the data-related frequency of 229Hz [...] Switching in the oversampling didn't reduce the level of jitter—an unexpected result [...]  I was puzzled by the noise modulation in the low treble[...]"

[werd]

jitter makes me laugh. Jitter is the big hoax in the audio world. How they measure jitter accurately  in the pico movement is beyond me. Well actually they don't. Its a big hoax by the builders of these jitter analyzers. There is no way an analyzer can measure in the pico movement without inducing its on jitter on the outcome. its all guess work by the analyzer nicely packaged and sold to the audio community.

iow don't rely on jitter specs by the manufacturers or stereophile...lol.

[Napalm]

How they measure jitter accurately  in the pico movement is beyond me.

For starters with something like this:

http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-1846742-pn-86100D/infiniium-dca-x-wide-bandwidth-oscilloscope-mainframe

[werd]

For starters with something like this:

http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-1846742-pn-86100D/infiniium-dca-x-wide-bandwidth-oscilloscope-mainframe

lol, and you think cables are a rip off. buy that and find out how frickn useless it is.

[PLA]

Hello everyone. This is my first post. Have owned this player since January, having problems streaming 192/24 Apple Lossless files. FLAC version of same file streams and plays OK. Used MAX utility to convert FLAC to Apple Lossless, does not work. Same file plays OK in iTunes, albeit at lower resolution. Downloading Apple Lossless files from HD tracks directly does not help, they will not play and the Mpad utility does not see them as being present in my iTunes library. Have been in touch with Chris Rice, no solution yet. Am using a 2012 MacMini6,2 with 2.6 gHz iCore 7 processor and OSX 10.8.2, iTunes 11.0.1(12), the 64-bit version. iTunes library is on a DROBO 5n NAS, connected via Ethernet cable to BDP-2. Using BelCanto DAC 3.5, mkII for decoding. Any helpful suggestion or working solution appreciated. On a related note, does anyone know if it possible to import my iTunes Library file structure and album cover jpgs unmolested into Mpad? Cheers.

[Napalm]

lol, and you think cables are a rip off. buy that and find out how frickn useless it is.

Without these tools you wouldn't have Ethernet, USB, digital TV, PCI Express bus, DDR3 sticks etc. Definitely not at today's speeds.

You should also note that it can resolve 1ps while powered through a regular, bog standard power cord, with no power conditioner. One may think that they would be using at least Monster Cables, eh? 

And while we're still at it, why don't you read this article (already brought to your attention by James in a different thread):

http://phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html

and carefully check the "Casablanca" example.

Then watch the second part of this presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjHKv2_OqQ

that deals with jitter. This is coming from the people making DAC chips. If they're utterly wrong then every single digital audio device would be quite wrong too, don't you think so?