Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like

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GrooveControl

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Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« on: 28 May 2020, 02:03 am »
We all seem to have a little more surfing time on our hands lately, so why not provide some feedback to our friends at Bryston about what we like and don't like about some of their designs/products? It can be any product whether you own it or not. I am not encouraging discussion about sound quality, just appearances and functionality. I've been a Bryston fan and owner for 35 years or so.  I've owed sever Amps and Preamps, but no digital stuff.

In the resteraunt business we use to say "people eat with their eyes". I think this holds true for audio too. We do listen with our eyes. Hence the blind listening tests. If we keep this constructive, I'm sure Bryston will be interested in reading this and will appreciate our input. 

Here are some of my thoughts...

1 - My favourite 3B/4B amp dressing dates back to the late eighties pre-NRB model.  I've owned several 4Bs and 3Bs from that era and think the black faceplate with the small (home version) Bryston logo and small black handles looked the best. The proportion between panel/logo/handles was just right. No big handles punching you in the face and no lines or curves on the panel trying to impress. This design doesn't draw undue attention to itself, yet the two LEDs remind you of it's presence. These amp say "turn me on and check back in 20 years". Maybe Bryston can re-introduce that as a classic line?  If I were to buy a new cubed 3B or 4B, I would definitely get the pro model as I'm even a lesser fan of the buckle than I am the big handles.

2 - The 2.5B throws things out of sorts. Bryston pillars have always been the 2B, 3B, 4B. it should remain that way as long as Bryston continues to make amps.  I know today's 2.5B has more power, but the .5 just does roll off the tongue properly. Try saying this out loud "I own a Bryston 2.5B", wait, what was that? a two point what?  Also, the case design of the 2.5B and B135 are not very pleasing to look at.  The notch for the heat sinks keep me from falling in love with these units. Weird I know, but the heat sinks really have to extend the full depth of the chasis.  I know you won't see it in a cabinet, but you know it's there. I prefer the exterior design of the original double height 2B or the 3B over the 2.B5. 

3 - I'm really glad Bryston has remote input selection in recent models to go along with the remote volume.  I think they should try to bring that to all preamps and integrated amps.  My BHA1 serves as a preamp too, so I would love to see remote capability there as well. Not that I would upgrade, but it would make the BHA1 more feature rich and appealing.   

4 - I really appreciate the Tape loop and Main-In Pre-Out on my B60. Please don't underestimate the usefulness of this functionality. As an audio enthusiast, I like playing with equalizers, active crossovers, dsp, etc. Some manufactures are designing there top end integrated amps with really weird pre-out and main-in functionality.  I think the Yamaha top units made the main-in an item on the input selector which allows the unit to be used as a pre-amp only or power amp only, but not both separately at the same time. Too weird. I could never buy an AS2200 based on this alone.  I hope Bryston never takes these features away from the B60, and that Tape Monitor makes its way into the BP17 and B135. This is very useful to get higher S/N when using an EQ compared to main-in Pre-out. These features don't add that much to the cost, and this flexibility contributes to a long term happy relationship between owner and product.   

5 - My final comment will be about meters. Why not.  Audiophiles really like them. Look at McIntosh, Luxman, Yamaha.  When you look at those products it's really hard to ignore the appeal that those meters have. I don't think Bryston will be perceived as "me too" if they offer meters. Especially if they are optional.  About 35 years ago I used to have a 4B that had the two strings of LED lights. They were a really cool, but just a tad too bright and rig/studio looking for home use. The meters should not be of any strong colour, but should be big and easy on the eyes.  The Yamaha meters are too small, McIntosh too colourful, the Luxman ones are good.   

Could my next Bryston product be a "50th anniversary edition 2Bm"? Please Bryston, make it so.

The 2Bm will be 2 rack spaces. It will have the black dress panel like the original 2B, and heat sinks that will extend the entire length of the chassis. The optional "m" version will have meters. The unit will also contain a front panel power switch and headphone out jack. Output will be stated as 100W per channel 8 ohms and 200W per channel into 4 ohms. A 12v trigger will be available for remote startup.   

Cheers.




   

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #1 on: 28 May 2020, 10:53 am »
Hi GroveControl,

Great topic and good feedback for us.

james


sweetspot

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #2 on: 28 May 2020, 11:44 am »
I love the understated look of Bryston. I do not need gawdy meters or such on my Bryston system! Yes ,you may eat with your eyes, but I listen with my ears.After 10 years of all in with Bryston, I still get a smile everyday when I listen to my system! Thank-you Bryston! Hey -new slogan, Bryston-Just Listen.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #3 on: 28 May 2020, 12:30 pm »
I love the understated look of Bryston. I do not need gawdy meters or such on my Bryston system! Yes ,you may eat with your eyes, but I listen with my ears.After 10 years of all in with Bryston, I still get a smile everyday when I listen to my system! Thank-you Bryston! Hey -new slogan, Bryston-Just Listen.

I like the slogan - maybe use it in an AD!

james

ragg987

Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #4 on: 28 May 2020, 12:39 pm »
I love the amps, warranty and service. Own 4bSST, 9BST and SP3.

One niggle - the amps have VERY bright LED lights which is no good in a dark cinema room. Have had to hide the 4BSST behind my loudspeaker and the 9BST glares - I intend taping over the lights.

But Bryston got it very right with the SP3 - when on you have an option to have the display and LEDs off. Perfect.

Elizabeth

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #5 on: 28 May 2020, 12:49 pm »
Sorry meter are ... well To be polite I will not write what I think of them
What I want from brystom in a box exactly like the BP-26 is a set of tone controls.serious tone controls. with many features.
Defeatable of course.. th standard three bass mids treble. then a loudness KNOB with variable detent setting, say six or seven levels.
A set of Q settings for those three tone controls and a set of knobs to move each of the three tone control centers...
Now THERE is a tone control IT would also have two sets of tape loops and output. maybe two inputs. So you could really play with it.
I already KNOW Bryston wold never make this. But I bet if some billionaire threw $10,000,000 at them they would make it... (my fantasy life) LOL

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #6 on: 28 May 2020, 01:46 pm »
I love the amps, warranty and service. Own 4bSST, 9BST and SP3.

One niggle - the amps have VERY bright LED lights which is no good in a dark cinema room. Have had to hide the 4BSST behind my loudspeaker and the 9BST glares - I intend taping over the lights.

But Bryston got it very right with the SP3 - when on you have an option to have the display and LEDs off. Perfect.

Hi

The little rubbed stick on feet we use it what I put over the LED's if they are too bright.

james

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2020, 01:48 pm »
Sorry meter are ... well To be polite I will not write what I think of them
What I want from brystom in a box exactly like the BP-26 is a set of tone controls.serious tone controls. with many features.
Defeatable of course.. th standard three bass mids treble. then a loudness KNOB with variable detent setting, say six or seven levels.
A set of Q settings for those three tone controls and a set of knobs to move each of the three tone control centers...
Now THERE is a tone control IT would also have two sets of tape loops and output. maybe two inputs. So you could really play with it.
I already KNOW Bryston wold never make this. But I bet if some billionaire threw $10,000,000 at them they would make it... (my fantasy life) LOL

Hi Liz

I think given todays technology all those features would be done through software and an IPad rather than physically being placed on the preamp.

james

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2020, 05:07 pm »
Keep the meters out if it keeps the cost down. To heck with aesthetics.

Don_S

Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2020, 07:30 pm »
I would love a one-box music server. Load CDs, store, playback--one box. Music should not be complicated or need so many boxes and wires.

gberger

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #10 on: 28 May 2020, 08:11 pm »
Meters serve a really useful purpose if you have an analog FM Tuner.  Center tune, signal strength and multi-path meterscan determine if you're truly on the center of the signal, while the signal strength and multi-path meters help in antenna selection, placement and (if using) antenna rotation.

However, Bryston leaves manufacture of "Bryston Quality" FM tuners to another Canadian company. 

Just a thought

gbaby

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #11 on: 28 May 2020, 08:17 pm »
Meters serve a really useful purpose if you have an analog FM Tuner.  Center tune, signal strength and multi-path meterscan determine if you're truly on the center of the signal, while the signal strength and multi-path meters help in antenna selection, placement and (if using) antenna rotation.

However, Bryston leaves manufacture of "Bryston Quality" FM tuners to another Canadian company. 

Just a thought

Why would you even mention this knowing Bryston does not sell tuners? Its irrelevant.  :roll: In fact all these subjective recommendations seem petty to me.  :o Its comical that someone complained about the 2.5B having .5. Nelson Pass would find this complaint to be a joke as he has .5 and .8 amps. Please! :lol:

gberger

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #12 on: 28 May 2020, 08:20 pm »
I guess a little attempt at some humor fell flat. Sorry about that.

GrooveControl

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #13 on: 28 May 2020, 10:36 pm »
Hi Liz

I think given todays technology all those features would be done through software and an IPad rather than physically being placed on the preamp.

james

Hi James, Yes, digital EQ is the way to go.  I prefer it even over my beloved KT DN360. I've been using a miniDSP 2x4HD with my B60 for over a year now. What an amazing pairing. I have it inserted into the tape loop. This setup provides a major upgrade to the functionality of the system. This little device adds DAC, Remote Control and EQ function to my non-remote B60. The AD converters in the miniDSP make it possible to route any of the B60s inputs to the miniDSP. My B60 doesn't have remote, but turning up the volume on the B60 and controlling the volume from the miniDSP works very well. With the miniDSP remote I can also switch inputs between the two digital inputs on the miniDSP and whatever analog source is selected on the B60.

My complaints about the design of the miniDSP are as follows:

1 - The form factor, connections on front and back, yuk. Please don't ever offer products like this.  Headphone output should be the only exception. The miniDSP remote sensor is on the front where the inputs are. I hate having to see the wiring in order to expose the sensor.

2 - You need a PC hard wired to it to change the EQ settings. Would have preferred a web interface via home network like Volumio. Needing a wired connection for initial network setup is okay, but not every time you want to change the EQ.

Should you guys decide to build a digital EQ, the front panel only needs the power switch and remote sensor. Putting an input selector and volume control there kind of makes a preamp redundant. Tough call.


 

Elizabeth

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #14 on: 28 May 2020, 10:50 pm »
WHAT? heresy... Every software solution adds three more problems.  Old Confucian proverb.  :thumb:

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #15 on: 28 May 2020, 11:58 pm »
Hi James, Yes, digital EQ is the way to go.  I prefer it even over my beloved KT DN360. I've been using a miniDSP 2x4HD with my B60 for over a year now. What an amazing pairing. I have it inserted into the tape loop. This setup provides a major upgrade to the functionality of the system. This little device adds DAC, Remote Control and EQ function to my non-remote B60. The AD converters in the miniDSP make it possible to route any of the B60s inputs to the miniDSP. My B60 doesn't have remote, but turning up the volume on the B60 and controlling the volume from the miniDSP works very well. With the miniDSP remote I can also switch inputs between the two digital inputs on the miniDSP and whatever analog source is selected on the B60.

My complaints about the design of the miniDSP are as follows:

1 - The form factor, connections on front and back, yuk. Please don't ever offer products like this.  Headphone output should be the only exception. The miniDSP remote sensor is on the front where the inputs are. I hate having to see the wiring in order to expose the sensor.

2 - You need a PC hard wired to it to change the EQ settings. Would have preferred a web interface via home network like Volumio. Needing a wired connection for initial network setup is okay, but not every time you want to change the EQ.

Should you guys decide to build a digital EQ, the front panel only needs the power switch and remote sensor. Putting an input selector and volume control there kind of makes a preamp redundant. Tough call.

Hi

Is the volume control in the mini DSP digital?

james

GrooveControl

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #16 on: 29 May 2020, 12:49 am »
Hi

Is the volume control in the mini DSP digital?

james

Yes, pretty sure its done in the digital domain and works when using the analog input of the device as well because the signal gets converted A --> D. 

GrooveControl

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #17 on: 29 May 2020, 01:31 am »
Yep, Too much time on my hands.  Spent the evening with JazzFM91, and LibreOffice Draw.

Too retro?


James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #18 on: 29 May 2020, 09:54 am »
Yes, pretty sure its done in the digital domain and works when using the analog input of the device as well because the signal gets converted A --> D.

Hi Groove

The issue with digital volume controls is they loose BIT's as you turn the volume down. So have the digital volume as high as possible when listening.

james

Elizabeth

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Re: Bryston Design: What we Do and Do Not like
« Reply #19 on: 29 May 2020, 01:17 pm »
Hi Groove
The issue with digital volume controls is they loose BIT's as you turn the volume down. So have the digital volume as high as possible when listening.
james
Isn't upsampling supposed to assist with that problem? particularly really high digital upsampling. If you would increasing the word length 100 times.. you would decrease the information loss ..
If you increase  the data length by 1000, but that would really cost a lot of money for teh computing power.. But it would eliminate the proplem of a digital vlume control. At least in my understanding.(I only read and KNOW nothing. so I may be in error