[russellreich]

I’m interested in purchasing either the M3 Sapphire or the X5 within the next 30 days and looking for some guidance. Thanks in advance, Circlers, for any help or answers you can offer...

1. Neither the M Sapphires nor the X’s have the coincident hi/mid configuration of the previous M models. Other speaker companies like KEF also tout the benefits of coincident designs. What has been lost, sonically, in the new models by not having coincident drivers?

2. M3 Sapphire vs X5?
Which would be better for a 14x15x8 room, windows on one side and back of the room, other side open to the rest of the house.

3. X5 vs X3?
X5 has same exact tweeter as X3 (yes?), same low frequency extension rating as X3 (25 hz), so why buy the X3? What does the larger driver and baffle give you? Just more air movement for larger spaces?

4. After the innovations and refinements of the new M and X models, what aspects of performance are likely to improve in future models? What can be bettered? (I ask because I'm wary of brands that frequently "improve" their speakers or switch out models often. Makes me wonder about rapid obsolescence and putting products to market possibly too early. Anyone share this concern?)

5. How do Spatial speakers deal with phase cancellation? (Likely already covered in another thread but since this is my first real post I'm not permitted to search yet.)

6. I will be attending the Florida Audio Show. Has anyone heard which model(s) will be on display?

7. Is Spatial known for offering special pricing at shows?

Thanks!

—R

[SnowPuppy77]

I’m interested in purchasing either the M3 Sapphire or the X5 within the next 30 days and looking for some guidance. Thanks in advance, Circlers, for any help or answers you can offer...

1. Neither the M Sapphires nor the X’s have the coincident hi/mid configuration of the previous M models. Other speaker companies like KEF also tout the benefits of coincident designs. What has been lost, sonically, in the new models by not having coincident drivers?

2. M3 Sapphire vs X5?
Which would be better for a 14x15x8 room, windows on one side and back of the room, other side open to the rest of the house.

3. X5 vs X3?
X5 has same exact tweeter as X3 (yes?), same low frequency extension rating as X3 (25 hz), so why buy the X3? What does the larger driver and baffle give you? Just more air movement for larger spaces?

4. After the innovations and refinements of the new M and X models, what aspects of performance are likely to improve in future models? What can be bettered? (I ask because I'm wary of brands that frequently "improve" their speakers or switch out models often. Makes me wonder about rapid obsolescence and putting products to market possibly too early. Anyone share this concern?)

5. How do Spatial speakers deal with phase cancellation? (Likely already covered in another thread but since this is my first real post I'm not permitted to search yet.)

6. I will be attending the Florida Audio Show. Has anyone heard which model(s) will be on display?

7. Is Spatial known for offering special pricing at shows?

Thanks!

—R

1. Not really due to the very wide frequency range of the Mid/Tweeter.  Still have a point source especially with the 576hz extension of the M3S Mid/Tweeter.  The integration between the bass and the rest is so good I do not notice any advantage with my old M3TM that had mid/tweeter in top woofer.   I have not heard the X5 but own the M3S and imaging and coherence is excellent.
2. IMO X5 would be the better speaker especially for that size of room.  X5 costs more and has probably better tweeter, better efficiency, powered bass, and more vibration control from better build baffle system and probably stand also.
3. Yes same tweeter on X3 and X5.  3 vs. 5 basically same sound but 3 will pressurize the bass better in a larger room like you suggested.  So more authority power in the bass.
4. I can tell you that the M3S is a beautiful speaker and came ready to go with no obvious lack of refinement in any way (build or sound).  The X5 appears to be the same or better.  One key difference I notice with the X5 is that the mid/tweeter is dipole while the M3S is not.  Perhaps down the road there will the a dipole upgrade for the M3S.  I can tell you that I am not concerned about that because of the excellent performance I currently get.  The Sapphire dome is a very special driver IMO.  But if Clayton and Tympany could work together on a dipole version of the driver which keeps all the great things we have now then that would be interesting.
5. Not sure how that works.  Just don't get it too close to front wall and toe in some.
6. I understand that the M3 Sapphires will be on demo at the Florida show.  This is according to the LTA amplifier folks.
7. I do know that they did bundle pricing with the other audio companies in the room at CAF.

[Audiosaurusrex]

Just to add to snowpuppy
I also purchased the M3s and my room is roughly the same size as yours and I have to say the M3 is quite a lot of speaker both visually and sonically. I’m still breaking mine in but stunning clarity across the spectrum. Clayton actually recommended the M3s for my and your size room. He explained that the dispersion of the AMT really works better in larger rooms. I keep mine roughy 40” from the front wall and approximately 6ft apart toed in. Added Isoacoustics footers and will tweak some room acoustics. But overall they are truly amazing for the money. I think what you will gain with the x series is more control of the bass. I would call Clayton though.
I think just the fact that he increased the price of the Ms by $750 says a lot about them. Good Luck!

[russellreich]

Generous and helpful. Thanks to you both.

I didn’t realize the price just went up. Gulp.

[bbybaudio]

Actually, the X3 and X5 have the same AMT, same Mid, same X-over and same subwoofer amp. Difference is 12 in X5 vs 15 in in X3 subowoofer. X5 accordingly has smaller baffle which I believe is a benefit for OB speakers. I agree with earlier post, X3 will push more air in larger room. I purchased the first pair of X5s and now have about 288 hrs on them. They are still improving. I played Jon Atkinson's Stereophile Test CD2 through them and they do reproduce the 25 Hz warble tone well. I think you will enjoy either speaker. These are the best speakers I have had in my room, Maggies, B&W and Silverline Sonatina IIIs, no contest with any of them.

[deadhead]

Russell,

I went with the X3s for a 16x22x8.5 room.  Clayton thought the larger woofer would do a better job filling the space.  Based on the conversation I had with him I'd assume you'd be fine with the X5 but you'd be best off calling him and discussing.

Jeff

[dvdboulet]

Question about the dipole tweeter for those of you who have (or have heard) the X series...

How "focused" is the dispersion? Especially in comparison to the M series dome tweeter?

I'd like to be able to hear airy-highs and "full spectrum" sound when I turn the stereo on and walk into the next room to work. also, If I want to host a dance party I'd like the speakers to still maintain a reasonable frequency response when folks are standing in the room... and not have the highs vanish because your head is up in the NULL region.

First-hand experience-based comments are welcome

Thanks!!

[Shakeydeal]

I think the highs from the AMT driver are great. Very airy and detailed.

That said, the dispersion is pretty focused on the sweet spot. If you move to the sides of the speakers, the sound changes drastically. Standing up while still in front of the speakers isn't quite as bad. But to me, they are clearly sweet spot speakers and don't have the wide dispersion that horns have. I wouldn't quite call it "head in a vice" sound, but not ideal for off axis listening.

Shakey

[bbybaudio]

I concur with Shakey. The X5s are a "sweet spot" experience. There is some wiggle room. In fact when my wife is in the sweet spot, I sit on the floor and still get great sound, including the sparkly highs. No doubt it is better when sitting in front of speakers. When off to the sides of the speakers, sound quality is diminished.

[bbybaudio]

Further, in regards to "sweet spot." My system is in a media/listening room on the second floor. When we have a party/entertain, you can clearly hear the music playing from upstairs, it is not muddled and you can hear the highs, mids and lows. The ability to clearly hear music continues on the stairwell and in the hall.

[Sonicjoy]

Hello. First post to this circle.

 I Have a pair of Emerald Physics EP 2.7's they are I believe the last speaker Clayton designed for E.P. before leaving to start Spatial. Mine have been upgraded with the latest tweeter from the current model EP2.8 and Danny Richie of GR Research designed and built new crossovers for them using much higher quality parts and said they are likely the best sounding pair of EP speakers out there. Anyway one of the design features touted about these is the narrow dispersion that minimizes the room interactions. So if Clayton is still using that concept then they likely are fairly narrow "sweet spot" speakers. But that is a good thing in my experience. It really does work well. The EP2.7's have a coax compression tweeter/12" mid/mid bass driver and 2 15" woofers. The imaging is excellent! The dynamics are powerful and exciting! They are very fun speakers to listen too. I would love to hear Clayton's latest designs. Maybe one day. I love the open baffle concept and will not likely go back to box speakers. You don't realize how much sound boxes make until it's gone.

Regarding using them at party's? When people are partying no one cares if the highs are diminished. Except maybe you. These should be great party speakers. They are so dynamic they will rock the house! Not just the room that they are in.

[Shakeydeal]

Regarding using them at party's? When people are partying no one cares if the highs are diminished. Except maybe you. These should be great party speakers. They are so dynamic they will rock the house! Not just the room that they are in.

Good point.

Shakey

[geerock]

Hello. First post to this circle.

 I Have a pair of Emerald Physics EP 2.7's they are I believe the last speaker Clayton designed for E.P. before leaving to start Spatial. Mine have been upgraded with the latest tweeter from the current model EP2.8 and Danny Richie of GR Research designed and built new crossovers for them using much higher quality parts and said they are likely the best sounding pair of EP speakers out there. Anyway one of the design features touted about these is the narrow dispersion that minimizes the room interactions. So if Clayton is still using that concept then they likely are fairly narrow "sweet spot" speakers. But that is a good thing in my experience. It really does work well. The EP2.7's have a coax compression tweeter/12" mid/mid bass driver and 2 15" woofers. The imaging is excellent! The dynamics are powerful and exciting! They are very fun speakers to listen too. I would love to hear Clayton's latest designs. Maybe one day. I love the open baffle concept and will not likely go back to box speakers. You don't realize how much sound boxes make until it's gone.

Regarding using them at party's? When people are partying no one cares if the highs are diminished. Except maybe you. These should be great party speakers. They are so dynamic they will rock the house! Not just the room that they are in.

Keep in mind that all of the Emerald Physics designs are Clayton's from 2009.  Almost no changes.  Spatial Audio is now in their 4th generation of design since Clayton started the company.  Much research and design since 2009 with the new X series having many of the finest design changes in OB speakers to date.  Clayton doesn't sit on his hands.

[Sonicjoy]

geerrock I am aware of all that but I think the basic underlying concepts of his designs still apply. At least as far as I can tell. Open baffle, controlled dispersion and high efficiency etc. Interestingly at least to me is that the new Lumina looks the most similar to my EP 2.7's. Coaxial upper drivers, two woofers although the servo control takes the bass to a whole other level no doubt. I am actually planning to build a pair of GR Research H frame servo subs to go with the EP's.

[drhoon]

Wrong thread