[BrandonB]

I watched the video earlier about Danny's front end Equipment.  From what I have read a large and clean power supply is a major factor in sound quality.  It doesn't matter if it is the DAC, Streamer, preamp etc.  The power supply always makes a difference.  I am not proficient in electrical engineering but I remember reading something about super capacitors almost being the equivalent of being off the grid.  Can anyone speak to this?  Also what other companies makes HiFi equipment that runs off batteries?   

[newzooreview]

Interesting conundrum. I used to have Red Wine Audio amps and preamps running on batteries with a Mach2Music Mac Mini running on a battery. Then I got a Red Wine Audio LIO running on ultracapacitors. I had to change out all of the batteries (not ultracapacitors) running those devices because batteries have a limited service cycle. It was every 2-3 years or so, but waking up and finding the batteries not working and having now music for two weeks due to a round trip for servicing was not fun. I could change out the free-standing Mac Mini 12V AGM batter myself, however.

None of those battery powered items is currently produced. Vinnie Rossi (who founded and ran Red Wine Audio) now makes amps and preamps running off of AC.

Uptone audio used to make stand-alone ultracapacitor power supplies, but they don't sell the Ultracaps any more.

In the end, I got a Puritan Audio PSM156 with a dedicated grounding rod and using their Groundmaster for safety. It made a big difference. Now I have the flexibility of using the 98% of equipment that runs on AC. I think battery power is a very good option, but it seems to severely limit choices in the current market (no pun intended).

[morganc]

Gary Dodd if memory serves me correctly was a friend of Danny’s and a genius. He created tube buffers and pre amps and even amps that were battery powered. Sadly, He died way too early and no one carried his ideas forward.  I had many of his products when I first started this hobby and they were incredible pieces that  sold for bargain prices. There was a time when everyone on thei AC forum it seemed had one of Gary’s Buffers or pre amps. 

[fre11111]

I watched the video earlier about Danny's front end Equipment.  From what I have read a large and clean power supply is a major factor in sound quality.  It doesn't matter if it is the DAC, Streamer, preamp etc.  The power supply always makes a difference.  I am not proficient in electrical engineering but I remember reading something about super capacitors almost being the equivalent of being off the grid.  Can anyone speak to this?  Also what other companies makes HiFi equipment that runs off batteries?

Dartzeel makes battery powered preamp.

[Early B.]

I watched the video. I would have liked to have seen a shot of Danny's entire system. I believe Danny uses a bank of big batteries to power his front end, so that's not a practical aesthetic for most people. I also would have liked to hear how a DIYer can re-create an off-grid system. Third, I'd like to hear the downsides of a battery-powered system. For instance, I use a dual 60v battery-powered lawn mower. It works great (I like the low noise!), but it doesn't have the power of a gas engine. I wonder if a battery-powered audio system is similar -- does it give out of gas (pun intended) when you crank it up?       

[Jaytor]

A DIYAudio contributor (IanCanada) had been developing LiFePo and ultracapacitor based power supplies for streamers and DACs for many years, and offering them in group buys on that forum. These have become so popular that Ian has recently launched an ecommerce site (IanCanada.ca).

Another DIYAudio contributor (Gabster 2000) has a Youtube channel (Gabster) where he has documented many builds based on Ian's designs). Most of Ian's products are preassembled PCBs so are not terribly difficult to assemble into a finished component.

I am currently working on a faairly high-end streamer/DAC build using many of Ian's modules and (and some of my own) which will use ten different power supplies, seven of which will each use two 3000F super capacitors to power the critical modules disconnected from the grid. The super capacitors require about 3 minutes of charging for 3 hours of off-grid playback, but this can be done automatically while music is paused or between songs.  Even if this time is inadequate, the power supply performance is still exceptional even when being used while charging.

[Zuman]

This battery solution specifically for audio looks very impressive (and very expensive...).
https://stromtank.us/

[BrandonB]

A DIYAudio contributor (IanCanada) had been developing LiFePo and ultracapacitor based power supplies for streamers and DACs for many years, and offering them in group buys on that forum. These have become so popular that Ian has recently launched an ecommerce site (IanCanada.ca).

Another DIYAudio contributor (Gabster 2000) has a Youtube channel (Gabster) where he has documented many builds based on Ian's designs). Most of Ian's products are preassembled PCBs so are not terribly difficult to assemble into a finished component.

I am currently working on a faairly high-end streamer/DAC build using many of Ian's modules and (and some of my own) which will use ten different power supplies, seven of which will each use two 3000F super capacitors to power the critical modules disconnected from the grid. The super capacitors require about 3 minutes of charging for 3 hours of off-grid playback, but this can be done automatically while music is paused or between songs.  Even if this time is inadequate, the power supply performance is still exceptional even when being used while charging.

I have seen both the website and Gabster on YouTube.  The kit projects look like they aren't that difficult to put together.  I want to know what they compare to in the retail world.  I was looking at building a streamer.  By looking at the streamer parts what would you compare it to?

[BrandonB]

Dartzeel makes battery powered preamp.

Dartzeel looks really cool but well beyond reach for most people.

[nlitworld]

Jay, you always have super cool stuff you're tinkering with. Always love to see the process. Please do some build threads when you do so we can live vicariously through your efforts. 

[Jaytor]

I have seen both the website and Gabster on YouTube.  The kit projects look like they aren't that difficult to put together.  I want to know what they compare to in the retail world.  I was looking at building a streamer.  By looking at the streamer parts what would you compare it to?

There is a very wide range of possibilities with Ian's modules, so it really depends on how sophisticated you want to get. At the limit, I would expect it's possible to build a streamer with Ian's modules that is as good (or perhaps even better) than the best commercial products available, at least regarding sound quality. But this won't be inexpensive (at several thousand dollars and likely considerably more with a high quality chassis).

A streamer requires a compute engine and software, and Ian's modules are designed to work with a Raspberry Pi. Assuming you want to use off-the-shelf software, the biggest limitation compared to the best commercial products is the display and user interface. Software products like Ropieee, Volumio, Moode, etc. aren't bad in this regard, but aren't quite as polished as many of the commercial streamers on the market, and their support for wide-format displays is somewhat limited.

Jay, you always have super cool stuff you're tinkering with. Always love to see the process. Please do some build threads when you do so we can live vicariously through your efforts. 

Thanks. I will create a build thread when I get a little further along. I'm currently working on the chassis design and collecting parts. I have 10 of the 14 3000F supercaps I need and the other 4 are backordered at Mouser. Digikey is also out of stock, and I don't want to risk trying to buy from someone else. So it will probably be this summer before I can start putting everything together. But I hope to be able to prototype parts of the build to make sure everything is working together before then.

[WGH]

The kit projects look like they aren't that difficult to put together.  I want to know what they compare to in the retail world.  I was looking at building a streamer.  By looking at the streamer parts what would you compare it to?

The performance of a Raspberry Pi based streamer will be identical to the HAL MS-6 music server streamer ($450) that uses an Intel Quad Core processor. Ian's modules will probably result in better sound quality. The sound improvements will be most noticeable when playing ripped 16 bit/44.1 kHz and hi-res files. Sound improvements with streaming from the internet will be vague at best. I tried to love Tidal hi-res streaming for a couple of years but dropped it because the sound quality paled in comparison to the same songs on my server but Tidal was good when I wanted to discover and preview new music.

I used a low powered streamer like the Raspberry Pi for years but grew out of it. I wanted to try software that needed a lot more power. Three of the guys in our audio club prefer R2R NOS DACs and play primarily 16bit/44.1kHz music. If that is your preference then a Raspberry Pi  based music streamer will work just fine. All three guys built ANK DACs, a 2.1 and two 5.1s. The ANK DACs have A++ sound.

Building an Affordable High-End Silent Music Server
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177495.msg1867916#msg1867916



One of the guys in our group built a tricked out DDDac DAC (by Lucian Luckit) with a WaveIO (by Doede Douma) USB board, he tweaked it for a year and it sounded real good. He then built the ANK 5.1 DAC and never used the DDDac DAC again.

DDDac DAC

[BrandonB]

The performance of a Raspberry Pi based streamer will be identical to the HAL MS-6 music server streamer ($450) that uses an Intel Quad Core processor. Ian's modules will probably result in better sound quality. The sound improvements will be most noticeable when playing ripped 16 bit/44.1 kHz and hi-res files. Sound improvements with streaming from the internet will be vague at best. I tried to love Tidal hi-res streaming for a couple of years but dropped it because the sound quality paled in comparison to the same songs on my server but Tidal was good when I wanted to discover and preview new music.

I used a low powered streamer like the Raspberry Pi for years but grew out of it. I wanted to try software that needed a lot more power. Three of the guys in our audio club prefer R2R NOS DACs and play primarily 16bit/44.1kHz music. If that is your preference then a Raspberry Pi  based music streamer will work just fine. All three guys built ANK DACs, a 2.1 and two 5.1s. The ANK DACs have A++ sound.

Building an Affordable High-End Silent Music Server
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177495.msg1867916#msg1867916



One of the guys in our group built a tricked out DDDac DAC (by Lucian Luckit) with a WaveIO (by Doede Douma) USB board, he tweaked it for a year and it sounded real good. He then built the ANK 5.1 DAC and never used the DDDac DAC again.

DDDac DAC

Thank you for all that information.  Did the guys at your audio club do any mods to the ANK DACs or are they great as there are?

[Jaytor]

There is a difference between a streamer and a server. A server needs a lot more compute power, particular if you are performing any dsp functions such as upsampling, PEQ, convolutions, etc, or running software like HQPlayer, Roon server, or other library management software with an extensive database.

The goal of a streamer (IMO) is to have the electrically quietest environment possible to retrieve music information over a network connection and pass it to a DAC, ideally using whatever signal transport the DAC handles best (e.g. I2S, AES, etc).

I have to disagree with you that all Raspberry Pi streamers will sound the same. There is a lot more to a high quality streamer than just the compute engine. The difference between a simple raspberry pi powered by a wall wart supply with an SPDIF HAT and a top end streamer that utilizes the highest quality power, ultra-low jitter clocks, multiple noise isolation stages, EMI and RFI mitigation measures, and excellent vibration dampening is night and day.

Whether it's a Raspberry Pi or other similar low power computer that provides the control doesn't make much difference as long as the software is well designed.

[WGH]

Did the guys at your audio club do any mods to the ANK DACs or are they great as there are?

The guys are mad scientists and are incapable of building anything stock.

Audionote DAC 5.1 Signature upgrades:

    Silver (.999) signal wire 16 gauge, instead of 18 gauge supplied copper
    High voltage and high current hookup wire 16 gauge
    Printed assembly manual from latest released version online
    Six 1/4 watt resistors on Super Regulator board replaced with 1 watt
    Basic rubber feet replaced with large aluminium/rubber footers
    Small rubber washers for mounting power transformers and chokes
    Super-Reg board: United Chemi-con capacitors replaced with audio Elna Silmic of same values, sometimes higher voltage
    Analog board: United Chemi-con capacitors replaced with audio Elna Silmic
    RCA panel jack replaced with WBT RCA jack for aux S/PDIF connection (for looks really, who cares if it makes any difference I won't be running a CD transport any time soon)
    Front-mounting rotary switch and gold knob optional addition instead of rear toggle on/off (I may not wire rear switch at all) Long 120v live run will be high grade sheilded and grounded
    Replacement 5x20mm fusses (possibly better audio grade, but in my mind they are all pretty stupid)
    Copper tape for making a flux band around the smaller choke (more a learning experience, not sure it will make a difference, but it shouldn't hurt)
    V-Caps upgrade from Audionote caps, purchased from ANK (suggestion from Brian at ANK)
    Fourteen Non-magnetic Tantalum resistors all replaced on analog board, from ANK (I love these resistors for signal paths)
    I will use a familiar USB board: WaveIO with latest clock, opposed to supplied Chinese brand of questionable origin?
    Added 5 volt power connector for outboard linear power supply instead of using USB cable with computer supplied voltage leg
    I will experiment with different rectifier tubes besides the one supplied, 5Z3PJ (new), Jan5931 (NOS), WE274B (Psvane), 5U4G (whatever), etc
    Experiment with the two analog tubes ECC82/12AU7 and ECC99 (EH, JJ, Sylvania, Phillips, etc)
    Power transformers mounted in slightly different location with 90 degree turns
    Aluminum panel with Mu-Metal shielding between digital/analog side and power supply side
    I will also rout signal wires more directly, and for now not wire the balanced output connectors.

ANK DAC 5.1 Signature upgraded parts




The off the grid power supply for the music server and WaveIO USB board is a custom LiFePO4 battery power supply.

[BrandonB]

The guys are mad scientists and are incapable of building anything stock.

Audionote DAC 5.1 Signature upgrades:

    Silver (.999) signal wire 16 gauge, instead of 18 gauge supplied copper
    High voltage and high current hookup wire 16 gauge
    Printed assembly manual from latest released version online
    Six 1/4 watt resistors on Super Regulator board replaced with 1 watt
    Basic rubber feet replaced with large aluminium/rubber footers
    Small rubber washers for mounting power transformers and chokes
    Super-Reg board: United Chemi-con capacitors replaced with audio Elna Silmic of same values, sometimes higher voltage
    Analog board: United Chemi-con capacitors replaced with audio Elna Silmic
    RCA panel jack replaced with WBT RCA jack for aux S/PDIF connection (for looks really, who cares if it makes any difference I won't be running a CD transport any time soon)
    Front-mounting rotary switch and gold knob optional addition instead of rear toggle on/off (I may not wire rear switch at all) Long 120v live run will be high grade sheilded and grounded
    Replacement 5x20mm fusses (possibly better audio grade, but in my mind they are all pretty stupid)
    Copper tape for making a flux band around the smaller choke (more a learning experience, not sure it will make a difference, but it shouldn't hurt)
    V-Caps upgrade from Audionote caps, purchased from ANK (suggestion from Brian at ANK)
    Fourteen Non-magnetic Tantalum resistors all replaced on analog board, from ANK (I love these resistors for signal paths)
    I will use a familiar USB board: WaveIO with latest clock, opposed to supplied Chinese brand of questionable origin?
    Added 5 volt power connector for outboard linear power supply instead of using USB cable with computer supplied voltage leg
    I will experiment with different rectifier tubes besides the one supplied, 5Z3PJ (new), Jan5931 (NOS), WE274B (Psvane), 5U4G (whatever), etc
    Experiment with the two analog tubes ECC82/12AU7 and ECC99 (EH, JJ, Sylvania, Phillips, etc)
    Power transformers mounted in slightly different location with 90 degree turns
    Aluminum panel with Mu-Metal shielding between digital/analog side and power supply side
    I will also rout signal wires more directly, and for now not wire the balanced output connectors.

ANK DAC 5.1 Signature upgraded parts




The off the grid power supply for the music server and WaveIO USB board is a custom LiFePO4 battery power supply.

There is a difference between a streamer and a server. A server needs a lot more compute power, particular if you are performing any dsp functions such as upsampling, PEQ, convolutions, etc, or running software like HQPlayer, Roon server, or other library management software with an extensive database.

The goal of a streamer (IMO) is to have the electrically quietest environment possible to retrieve music information over a network connection and pass it to a DAC, ideally using whatever signal transport the DAC handles best (e.g. I2S, AES, etc).

I have to disagree with you that all Raspberry Pi streamers will sound the same. There is a lot more to a high quality streamer than just the compute engine. The difference between a simple raspberry pi powered by a wall wart supply with an SPDIF HAT and a top end streamer that utilizes the highest quality power, ultra-low jitter clocks, multiple noise isolation stages, EMI and RFI mitigation measures, and excellent vibration dampening is night and day.

Whether it's a Raspberry Pi or other similar low power computer that provides the control doesn't make much difference as long as the software is well designed.

That is quite an upgraded DAC from the ANK.

[Jaytor]

@WGH - I've read a lot of glowing reviews on the ANK DACs, particularly the 5.1. I bet that one sounds heavenly with the upgrades. Do you know which V-Caps those are (looks like TfTf or CuTf) and where they are used in the circuit (right after the DAC chip or as output caps)?

I read through your server build thread. Nice project! I'm currently using a Small Green Computer i9 server, but would like to build something DIY at some point.

[WGH]

Do you know which V-Caps those are (looks like TfTf or CuTf) and where they are used in the circuit (right after the DAC chip or as output caps)?

I don't know where the VCAPS were used but the value should indicate the position

[Jaytor]

I don't know where the VCAPS were used but the value should indicate the position

Thanks. These are the copper foil with Teflon dialectic (top of the line). These are nice caps!  I'm planning to use this type for output caps in one of my preamp projects. Unfortunately, I need four 1uF which gets pretty spendy so I'll probably try something cheaper to start.

I suspect these are used at the input to the tube stage since this DAC appears to have transformer coupled outputs.