[Rock Ball]

I use a 300B SET amp with my NX-Tremes.  I would like more power for some types of bass-heavy music but I don't want to give up the sweet smooth sound of my 300B amp.

I visited a person this weekend who built his own system.  He drives the horn in his speakers with a 300B amp and the woofers with a different, higher power tube amp.

I wonder if it would be possible to use my 300B amp with the tweeter and two midrange drivers, and drive the eight woofers with a class D amp (or 4 woofers with an NX-Otica).

Has anyone tried this?

I temporarily hooked up my Denon 140W/ch AVR and realized that I really like the sound of the bass with the power it provides.  But the rest is just not as good as the 300B.

I want my cake and eat it too.

[AKLegal]

Danny was toying with an idea like this a while back I believe for a different model (one Neo 10 and one Neo 3 on top - whatever that one is called).  I'm not sure what came of it. I think it is ideal.

[NoahH]

Danny also made a big point recently that if you use subs and filter out the low-bass *before the amp*, that it offloads enough to make small amps work.

Regardless, I can't imagine why you can't just build the crossover with the bass section separated and bi-amp if you want.

[Rock Ball]

Danny also made a big point recently that if you use subs and filter out the low-bass *before the amp*, that it offloads enough to make small amps work.

I already did this.  It may have helped some, but not enough.  The 300B still gets the lower frequencies for the 8 woofers.  The more I think about this, I would need to change the capacitor value so that the frequencies that are driven by the 8 woofers are filtered out so that the 300B never sees them.

[EdwardT]

Maybe insert an active two way crossover in the signal chain, that would allow you to tailor the response with minimal phase change and signal loss.

[Rock Ball]

To facilitate a more clear discussion, here's a general diagram of the possible system:


Is there a problem with this?

Maybe insert an active two way crossover in the signal chain, that would allow you to tailor the response with minimal phase change and signal loss.

Would this cover the 300B and CLASS D INPUT CIRCUITS in the diagram?

Another question I have is about disconnecting the woofer circuit from the current crossover circuit.  Will that change the impedance seen by the amps, requiring a change in the speaker wiring?
   

[AKLegal]

To facilitate a more clear discussion, here's a general diagram of the possible system:


Is there a problem with this?
 

I am assuming that the "300B input circuit" in the diagram are filters for filtering out low frequencies before the 300B amp input. I wouldn't bother with an input circuit for the woofer portion.

I see no problem with this. This is exactly what NoahH said above. Just make sure the mids/tweeter xovers and the woofer xovers are completely separate.

[cjsailer]

Not an expert, so I might be using a term incorrectly here.  But I presume you also have a subwoofer, possibly the servo plate amp.  So if you look at the complete sound setup, you are now going to have to try and integrate three amplifiers here, all of which will have different gains.  That might get tricky level matching.  Does you 300b and this new class D amp allow for adjustments?

[Early B.]

Rock Ball -- you should replace your amp. The problem with lower wattage amps is precisely what you're experiencing. Your speakers need plenty of power, regardless of the specs. If you attempt to fix the problem by bi-amping, you'll create more problems. 

If you like tubes, get a more powerful tube amp -- monoblocks preferably.

[mkrawcz]

I agree with EarlyB. I wouldn’t change the speaker. You don’t necessarily need more watts though. I am using Danny’s new 10 watt chip amp and it easily competes with my BHK monos and the Neurochrome mod686 in the tight, dynamic bass department. At the same time it actually beats the Elekit in the midrange as well.

[RonP]

To facilitate a more clear discussion, here's a general diagram of the possible system:
 

I just ordered a decware integrated https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE34I.htm I'll (eventually) build a small system for the home office. I'm happy to bring it over man.

the downside.... basically a 1 year wait 

[Early B.]

I am using Danny’s new 10 watt chip amp and it easily competes with my BHK monos and the Neurochrome mod686 in the tight, dynamic bass department. At the same time it actually beats the Elekit in the midrange as well.

Wow. Interested in hearing more. Has anyone started a thread yet on the beta test reviews of this chip amp? 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Not yet, tho the remaining 29 units were approved to be made.
They're really solid amps tho.

Definitely the best of the amps I've heard so far, and very little burn in time needed. Tho I've only listened to a small handful so far.
It's a very clean amp, with a super quiet noise floor, so it really helps with spaciousness and separation of notes.

Ron described it as a very transparent amp, as it doesnt seem to add anything to the signal its given.
I've been using a Holo Spring DAC & a Tsakiridis tube preamp with it, and thats really been a killer combo. The holographic imaging of the tubes paired with the clean tone of the chip amp is most excellent. 

I know Danny has been really impressed with them so far, as has Ron.
Ron put out a couple spund clip videos recently comparing the Chip Amp with the Hegel H390. (Which I also really like)

Chip amp:
https://youtu.be/dgZJw_ahyno

Hegel H390:
https://youtu.be/9QXuLeOi1-I

The audio in those clips aren't the best tho as it sounds kinda stuffy or congested imo? Especially compared to some of his previous sound clips videos.
I think once we get the remaining batch of 29 amps ready to roll, youll see some videos on them.

I'm definitely excited to see what others who also have them think.

[e_biz80]

I ran my nx-treme's with a 10 watt tube amp and was very happy until I tried 50watt tube mono blocks from the same manufacturer.  It completely transformed the  speakers.  Now there's so much more punch and bass control.

[Rock Ball]

It looks like the consensus is to go with a different amp and leave the speakers alone.

I ran my nx-treme's with a 10 watt tube amp and was very happy until I tried 50watt tube mono blocks from the same manufacturer.  It completely transformed the  speakers.  Now there's so much more punch and bass control.

This is what I experienced when I reconnected my Denon AVR.  I forgot how pleasing strong, punchy bass sounds to me.  I can only imagine what it will sound like with a better amp.

I just ordered a decware integrated https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE34I.htm I'll (eventually) build a small system for the home office. I'm happy to bring it over man.

the downside.... basically a 1 year wait 

Sure, bring "Rachael" over when you get it!  I bet it will sound fantastic.

I agree with EarlyB. I wouldn’t change the speaker. You don’t necessarily need more watts though. I am using Danny’s new 10 watt chip amp and it easily competes with my BHK monos and the Neurochrome mod686 in the tight, dynamic bass department. At the same time it actually beats the Elekit in the midrange as well.

That's quite an endorsement for Danny's amp.  I'll bet it sounds great.  Maybe I'll get an opportunity to try one out at some point.

[tom739]

I ran my nx-treme's with a 10 watt tube amp and was very happy until I tried 50watt tube mono blocks from the same manufacturer.  It completely transformed the  speakers.  Now there's so much more punch and bass control.

Yes, very much agree.

Rock Ball, bi-amp would be fun to try, especially is you already have more than one amp. One amp needs a volume or gain adjustment so you can match the level with the other amp. But in the end one good amp will usually sound best.

[Danny Richie]

Did you guys catch my video on bi-amping? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908BWw1Bx4U&t=27s

[WC]

Did you guys catch my video on bi-amping? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908BWw1Bx4U&t=27s

I saw it. I agree with you in regards to passive crossover speakers. You didn't touch on speakers with active crossovers where it can make a difference, but I think I already know your viewpoint on it.

[Rock Ball]

Did you guys catch my video on bi-amping? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908BWw1Bx4U&t=27s

I watched it before I started this thread.  I just watched the video again to make sure that I didn't miss something.

I had already implemented the suggestion you made about adding a capacitor to take the low frequencies off of the 300B amp.  I used Sonicap Platinum 0.047 uF 400VDC Precision Matching L3 (each) capacitors.  I'm sure this helped some, but I still can't play it at the volume that I'd like to without the 300B distorting.  If I used different capacitor values to bring the cut off frequency up even higher, then I am taking more load off of the 300B but I am also taking load off of the 8x woofers in the NX-Tremes.

Taking the quality of the amp out of the equation, is it better to use the NX-Tremes as low as they will go, or is it better to cut them off at a higher frequency so the servo sub system can be used at as high a frequency as possible?  The assumption I made with this thread is that it is better for me to use the NX-Tremes 8x woofers.  Am I wrong?

[Tyson]

You are learning that in audio there is never a perfect solution.  Even going fully active with dedicated amps for each set of drivers is not going to make you happy.  I know, I did exactly that for years in my setup. 

I'd try a push-pull tube amp, that'll give you better bass than the 300b, while still keeping most of the tube magic.  If you can find a used one, I'm a big fan of Cary amps because they use octals on the driver boards, which sound awesome. 

For SS amps, the First Watt designs (and Pass designs) all have a nice tube-like quality to them. 

Digital, mostly meh, IMO but the DAC Cherry and Maraschino are pretty good.

Good luck!