I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.

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ctviggen

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #100 on: 1 Sep 2018, 09:58 am »
Nobody buys EVs for “trips”. If you drive over 150miles/day often you should look elsewhere.
I rent a car the two or three times a year I travel out of range. I have only charged not at home once in four years of EV ownership.

When I had my Volt, I tried to charge a few times when not at home.  The only time I actually got the car hooked up...I had it configured to only charge at home.  After I realized it was set that way, I changed the settings, but I never could charge anywhere else.  Either cars were already using the charging station or the correct connector was not available.  Tesla has more charges now, though.  It also charges much faster (mine could take 4+ hours). 

ctviggen

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #101 on: 1 Sep 2018, 10:07 am »
The best part of the Volt was not having to get gas for about 9 months out the year, or only getting it once. You don't realize how much getting gas sucks until you do it every week (as I do now, since my Volt was totaled and I drive a gas-only car now).  In the summer, I could make it to and from work twice without electricity.  The car would run the engine at times even in the summer, just to run it.

Also, the lack of maintenance is great too.  My VW Jetta Wagon needed regular maintenance, some of which was insanely expensive (the flush of the gear box was some ridiculous price like $600).  The Volt rarely went into the shop for regular maintenance, maybe once every two years (though I had the car less than two years, and I never took it for maintenance). 

Everyone thinks the tax incentives for these cars are great, but the Federal tax incentive is paid by taxes.  What this means is if the car costs 70,000 (as Teslas can cost), or 40,000 (as a Chevy Volt can cost), you borrow that amount.  At some point, you'll get the $7,500 off your taxes, but if you have a car loan, that amount does not lower the car loan. 

artur9

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #102 on: 1 Sep 2018, 12:51 pm »
I have hated going to the gas station for many years now.  First I got a TDI that got 600mi to a tank and reduced my gas trips to once every 2w.  Even that was too often for me :-)  So annoying that the price of gas is unstable.

I pounced on the electric for that reason and others.  But now I often have to fill up the wife's car ;-(

2bigears

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #103 on: 1 Sep 2018, 04:36 pm »
 :D silly thread.  Lot of peeps here with $$ I guess. Buy a used car that gets 45 mpg. A small dependable throw away after 450,000 trouble free happy motoring clicks. Your insane if you buy a 70,000 dollar car. Your nuts. We have reached the age of no-growth and the only thing holding things together id debt now.
     Stop fooling yourself and save ,,,, tesla can go duck themselves ,,,, 3000 dollars for a new door handle that needs to be programmed by them.  Are you serious ,,,, come on ,, everybody get real. There's a storm coming and a stupid car is the least of your worries,,,, happy motoring,,,,,ha.   :D

Big Red Machine

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #104 on: 1 Sep 2018, 04:54 pm »
Here's an interesting graph showing energy densities.




kingdeezie

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #105 on: 1 Sep 2018, 08:53 pm »
I don't have the number in front of me so I'll simply say SEVERAL major auto manufacturers have announced that they will stop making ICE engines within the next several years. Are they lying to boost sales? Or have they done the research to discover that the electric vehicle is inevitable given the current state of world affairs and climate emergencies and (probably) petroleum reserves. Certainly there will be stubborn or sentimental types who will try to hang on but they will be curators, not drivers.

Those of you who continue to doubt the inevitable end to the common use of internal combustion engines need to find better information sources.

And for god's sake stop harping on the nonsense about battery disposal. We neither create or destroy energy. All we do is concentrate it all in a few places (landfills, etc.) or convert it to another energy form. Fossil fuels amount to "battery" storage of the sun's energy, nothing more. The problem with them is that they cannot be replenished as quickly as we are using them. Solar energy, within any time frame we can comprehend is inexhaustible. This is what is meant by "sustainable".

I think it makes sense that battery recycling and battery life will both improve over time. But a number of car makers are working to refine hydrogen cell cars to the point of obsoleting the electric versions. Most of us at AC are too old to be looking that far ahead however.


To quote Talking Heads, "This thing is real...." Here are a few links that you might find convincing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/gm-going-all-electric-will-ditch-gas-diesel-powered-cars-n806806

https://www.quora.com/How-long-is-it-till-gas-cars-are-obsolete

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170803/ANE/170809854/german-automakers-will-stop-developing-combustion-engines-in-six

https://futurism.com/toyota-just-announced-a-deadline-for-the-phasing-out-of-gas-engines/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2017/07/05/volvo-says-it-will-stop-designing-combustion-engine-only-cars-by-2019/#706ddc961fa3

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/countries-are-announcing-plans-to-phase-out-petrol-and-diesel-cars-is-yours-on-the-list/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/we-mean-business/the-death-of-the-internal_b_13533290.html

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/13/16293258/ev-revolution

https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/reality-behind-britains-ban-internal-combustion-engine

https://qz.com/1341155/nine-countries-say-they-will-ban-internal-combustion-engines-none-have-a-law-to-do-so/

Do you even read the links that you post, or do you just poach headlines?

Several of those links state that ICEs won't be completely replaced or phased out until 2040 to 2050. That's not "SEVERAL years," that's several decades.

Any link mentioning cessation of ICE development, doesn't mean the companies will stop making ICE cars, just that research and development on ICE won't continue in favor of electric engines.

I don't think anyone on this thread has stated that electric cars aren't the future, its just not the near future.

There are still too many logistical issues.

For instance, I live in a townhouse. I would certainly buy a Tesla, or something like it, but I have no garage or driveway to charge my vehicle. That makes an electric car useless to me, and millions of other people across the globe who live similarly to how I do. You need the appropriate accommodations in your home to realistically own an electric car. 

Some condo, town home, or apartment associations will make concessions for electric vehicle owners, but not all. These concessions are also usually limited to only a handful of people. What do we do when half the residents are driving them and need accomondations? Who foots the bill for construction of charging stations, and the dramatic increase in the electric bill?

Personally I think, until we see a major leap forward in battery technology, where both mileage is increased, and charging time is alleviated by a significant factor, mass adoption of electric vehicles isn't possible. The car battery will need to be charged to full in minutes, not hours. 

If you have a nice house with solar panels, a garage to charge your vehicle, and six figures for a Tesla, good on you for doing your part. For the VAST majority of individuals across the globe, EVs are a non-starter currently given their demands and limitations.

Until THAT hurdle is surmounted, the rest is just chest thumping.

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #106 on: 1 Sep 2018, 09:21 pm »
That is the correct answer. For now it's all about ego.

avahifi

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #107 on: 1 Sep 2018, 10:28 pm »
For those interested, here is an interesting route planner for EV owners.

Abetterrouteplanner.com. (A better route planner)

Plug in your car, speed you want to maintain, and destination and it figures everything else including recommended charging stops and time and even nearby snack stops.

For me it shows about 5.5 hours to Axpona hotel at Chicago with one 30 minute recharging along the way, using less than $6.00 worth of electricity.  Since I always make a meal and gas break along the way anyway, this is no different than driving my Audi,  but I save $50 worth of gas each way. I plugged in 75mph speed, not creeping along.

I plan to own one by next April. The

Frank

Cacophonix

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #108 on: 3 Sep 2018, 01:18 am »
Good choice, Frank. I test drove my colleague’s model 3 and was very pleasantly surprised at how it handled itself. Unreal acceleration!  :icon_twisted:

sts9fan

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #109 on: 3 Sep 2018, 01:31 am »
That is the correct answer. For now it's all about ego.

When would it not be about ego and how do we get there?
Seems like anything but an F150 is an insult. One size fits all.

Roninaudio

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #110 on: 3 Sep 2018, 03:26 pm »
If it can't "roll coal" why would you buy it?   lol

The 3 is a great car and a lot of people own them around here.  It's not for everyone (yet) but for those that can afford it and deal with the idiosyncrasies, it's an option. There is a waiting list just for a test drive. Performance is killer....

genjamon

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #111 on: 3 Sep 2018, 05:56 pm »
When would it not be about ego and how do we get there?
Seems like anything but an F150 is an insult. One size fits all.

Ha.  Yeah, no ego in an F150, right?  None at all...  Purely utilitarian.  All of that "pulling cars out of ditches in winter" talk is purely utilitarian altruism - rriiiiiiiiight...  :roll: 

Why not just call a tow truck when you need one?  Do you really HAVE to own such a vehicle yourself?

A_shah

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #112 on: 3 Sep 2018, 06:30 pm »
If it can't "roll coal" why would you buy it?   lol

The 3 is a great car and a lot of people own them around here.  It's not for everyone (yet) but for those that can afford it and deal with the idiosyncrasies, it's an option. There is a waiting list just for a test drive. Performance is killer....

Yes I have test driven it twice and my son also took it for a spin , technologically and comfort as well as ride it beats anything that Detroit or even Japan puts out  in the market today . we ordered ours today. with 5K down and payments are reasonable
Asghar :thumb:

DaveC113

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #113 on: 3 Sep 2018, 10:35 pm »
Ha.  Yeah, no ego in an F150, right?  None at all...  Purely utilitarian.  All of that "pulling cars out of ditches in winter" talk is purely utilitarian altruism - rriiiiiiiiight...  :roll: 

Why not just call a tow truck when you need one?  Do you really HAVE to own such a vehicle yourself?

Car purchases are almost entirely emotionally driven. Back in the early 90's I sold cars for a short time. Previously, I was one of the nation's top salespeople selling electronics at a department store. I didn't do well selling cars though, it's pretty much the total opposite of selling electronics. For selling cars, actually knowing about the cars you are selling is often a disadvantage, because if you give someone information that conflicts with their emotional attachment to the car they will dislike you and not want to buy a car from you. This is why dealers often hires salespeople who are absolutely not auto enthusiasts, and you've probably noticed car salespeople don't know too much about the cars they sell. This isn't just chance, it's intentional. Some dealers just want a happy idiot that can bring potential customers really bad deals with a smile on their face.

Russell Dawkins

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #114 on: 3 Sep 2018, 11:10 pm »
Car purchases are almost entirely emotionally driven. Back in the early 90's I sold cars for a short time. Previously, I was one of the nation's top salespeople selling electronics at a department store. I didn't do well selling cars though, it's pretty much the total opposite of selling electronics. For selling cars, actually knowing about the cars you are selling is often a disadvantage, because if you give someone information that conflicts with their emotional attachment to the car they will dislike you and not want to buy a car from you. This is why dealers often hires salespeople who are absolutely not auto enthusiasts, and you've probably noticed car salespeople don't know too much about the cars they sell. This isn't just chance, it's intentional. Some dealers just want a happy idiot that can bring potential customers really bad deals with a smile on their face.
Interesting perspective, thanks.

I used to sell 'high end' stereo and I think the same was true to an extent, there, too. Customers tended to come in 'pre-sold' on something and just wanted the best price on that item. It was fairly rare for them to change their minds based on what they heard in comparative listening. Some definitely wanted to impress friends—I remember one guy buying B&W 800s and refusing to listen to us about upgrading his really low end 30 wpc receiver to drive them; he just wanted them to decorate his living room. I also remember taking a lot of time to put together a really compatible (but small) system for an accountant. At the end of the three hour process as he was leaving with it all, all he wanted to know was 'how much he saved' due to the discounts we gave him here and there under pressure from him.

charmerci

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #115 on: 4 Sep 2018, 05:36 am »
Well, those last two posts are really depressing!

JLM

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Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #116 on: 4 Sep 2018, 10:24 am »
I encourage folks to buy leading edge stuff in hopes that the R&D they're funding will create technology that will trickle down to something practical that I can afford.  Tesla is operating on leading edge, first kid on the block, and zoom-zoom for their sales.  GM and others are operating on economy of scale and 'foot in the door' long term investment concepts. 

Still holding out for fuel cell cars to become technically and financially viable (in the midwest).  My ideal car would involve being self sufficient based on solar panels, a fuel cell to produce hydrogen to be stored in pressure vessels (propane tanks) that could be used for the fuel cell cars and home with convenient hydrogen filling stations everywhere.  This would get rid of slow fills, nasty battery production/disposal, heavy batteries that wear out, and impacts/losses relating to distribution of electricity (can you imagine a world with no overhead lines in the country?).

Wayner

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #117 on: 4 Sep 2018, 12:26 pm »
Well, if you watch the news, the Tesla factory was shut down for awhile because their cars were catching on fire, just like the powered skate boards.

Leading edge products cost is way too expensive for people to buy on a whim. The first video tape machines and CD players had  high price tags and only the most affluent people could afford to buy them.

Like I stated before, the electric car has been under development for over 100 years. Things do not change over night. Even if it did, what would happen to the millions of people employed in one way or another in the petro industry?

BTW, my town doesn't have any overhead power lines, because we all decided to bury them. No storm damage, no pole replacement. Not a new technology either, just different thinking.



OzarkTom

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #118 on: 4 Sep 2018, 12:56 pm »
Well, if you watch the news, the Tesla factory was shut down for awhile because their cars were catching on fire, just like the powered skate boards.

A very hot Tesla.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-catches-fire-while-in-motion-not-caused-by-crash/

sts9fan

Re: I test drove a Tesla 3 this morning.
« Reply #119 on: 4 Sep 2018, 01:20 pm »
Well, if you watch the news, the Tesla factory was shut down for awhile because their cars were catching on fire, just like the powered skate boards.

Leading edge products cost is way too expensive for people to buy on a whim. The first video tape machines and CD players had  high price tags and only the most affluent people could afford to buy them.

Like I stated before, the electric car has been under development for over 100 years. Things do not change over night. Even if it did, what would happen to the millions of people employed in one way or another in the petro industry?

BTW, my town doesn't have any overhead power lines, because we all decided to bury them. No storm damage, no pole replacement. Not a new technology either, just different thinking.

Do you honestly think that jobs in a sector is a reason to keep that industry alive even when a better alternative exists (not say EV is there). Should we still have whaleing and folks burning the oil to save jobs? Shit changes and jobs evolve. If the petro industry dies so be it. If solar, wind or something new takes its place the world will likely be better off.