Break-In Question

Rakesh · « **on:** 4 Jan 2003, 03:42 pm »

Not that I am intending to do, but, is it necessary to connect speakers to my new Monos during Break-In Process. Of course, source will remain connected to it making sure music flows through monos. This way, break-in process can continue for 24x7 for couple of days.

hammergjh · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 12:56 am »

Hi everyone, I just joined after Klaus recommended this site.

I just received my Stratos amp (w/ 125K Cap upgrage) last Monday, 1/27. I've been running it pretty much 24/7 since then. I just leave on the tuner with the volume on low to medium levels. So far the sound has been pretty disapointing at levels somewhat above normal conversation levels w/ my CDP. The sound is harsh, glaring, muddied and indistinct. At what point does this improve? At lower levels it sounds fine, so far. I'm pretty frustrated as I was really looking forward to the amp getting here and listening to it. With all the praise heaped upon this unit in various sites around the internet, (audioreview, audiogon, etc.) I was expecting it to sound much better than this out of the box. I'm aware that some reviews and the manual mention a long break in. I'm willing to give this some more time. But jeez. Klaus gives everyone a 30 day money back guarantee, but I really didn't want to use this. I really want to like the amp.

In contrast, my 22 year old Hafler DH200 sounds great. It puts out tons of clean, grain free power. I wanted to upgrade my amp w/ some modern gear, plus I don't know how much longer the Hafler will last.

On the plus side, this amp is obviously of very high quality. The build quality is superb. I'm very impressed with its appearance and exterior appointments. It's so friggin' big!

If anyone has anything to say, I'm willing to listen. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 05:44 am »

Hi Glenn,

Well, actually this doesn't sound like a break-in thing. There's got to be something else wrong somewhere.
I'll call you tomorrow,

Klaus

Kishore · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 07:40 am »

Gregg,

I should agree with Klaus. I do not have any Odyssey as of now (ok 1 set is in storage and another should come soon) but I have had many Odysseys over different periods of time and I have never had the 'harsh/muddy/indistinct' sound from it-been exact opposite for me. Break in only made soundstage expand wider and sound change from warm to almost slight warm/neutral.

Did you check with changing cables or pre?

Cheers,
Kishore

hammergjh · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 04:48 pm »

Hi,
Thanks for the feedback so far. I've got the Monster IC's connected right now. I'm expecting a new set of VDH D-102 III Hybrid IC's in a couple of days. I'll check those out and let everyone know.
I'm also going to hook up a Creek OBH8se w/ my old Phillips TT (new Ortofon OM10 cart) to check out the system. Right now my B&K doesn't have a phono stage.
But what puzzles me is why does the 22 year old Hafler sound great and the new Odyssey sound bad at loud volume. All other things being equal in the system.
Still plugging, will let everyone know.

Gregg

Rakesh · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 08:42 pm »

After almost a month, my speakers have simply disappeared. Specially while watching movies dialogues are simply amazing. Now, I understand what is 'holographic' !!

Captain Humble · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 06:04 am »

hammergjh,
Hang in there and trust Klaus. There is obviously something wrong somewhere. My experience with the Dual Monos was the opposite from yours. I expected them to sound bad out of the box due to all the talk about long break in. Actually they sounded much better than I expected. After a couple of days they sounded so good that I was skeptical that they would actually get better over time. They did.

The good news for you is that if there is a problem you've got Klaus in your corner. I haven't publicly thanked him for the help he has provided to me for fear of being labeled an Odyssey groupie but he has provided me with assistance on gear that wasn't even his. Work with him and you can cultivate an extremely valuable relationship.

Good luck

Jeff

moyses · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 06:04 pm »

Hi Guys:

I am new to the site. I am an audio distributor in Brazil, and Odyssey is one of the products I am trying to bring into the country.
This message, if I am doing things right, which I am not sure at all, is a reply to GREGG:

Might I suggest the problem you are experiencing could be due to a mismatch between the output voltage of the B&K (quite high I guess), and the input sensitivity of the Odyssey (low? 0.5V?)?. If this is the case, when you raise the volume you will very rapidly get saturation and thus, I presume, what you describe as congested sound.
Hope this helps.
Moyses

hammergjh · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 04:03 pm »

Howdy Moyses,
I was thinking along similar lines. There is some sort of synergistic mismatch between the two units. Obviously, you know more about this than me. Looking at the specifications for the B&K, it is putting out 8 V RMS at maximum output. Is this a high figure? I can't find the input sensitivity spec for the Odyssey. Maybe someone can chime in here.
Just to let everyone know, the Stratos amp in my system sounds fine up to moderate levels, only at loud levels and above does the sound quality break down. The Hafler can be driven to higher gain levels on the B&K pre-amp than the Stratos, but the Hafler is only rated at a conservative 100 watts RMS.

Here are some specs on the Hafler dh-200:
input impendence 22 k Ohms
input sensitivity 1.5 volts rms for 100 watts into 8 ohms
IM distortion .005% 1 watt to 100 watts into 8 ohms
THD: 1 kHz .0015%, 10 kHz .005%, 20 kHz .012%
S/N 100 Db at 100 watts at 8 ohms
damping factor 150 at 1 kHz, 50 at 10 kHz
slew rate 30 V/micro sec

zapper · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 04:40 pm »

The guy from Brazil might be alittle off. I have a BAT VK3i that, according to company specs, in balanced mode puts out almost 40 volts. I am also running my Meridian in balanced mode to the BAT. I am sure that it is over the output that your B&K is doing. My Odysseys sound better with these changes to balanced and are running even louder. I am thinking of going to the Xtremes, but have not called Klaus yet.

I am affraid of the price and my inability to do it right now. Oh well, let Klaus figure out what is wrong with it, I am sure it is something simple.

moyses · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 04:50 pm »

Hi Hammergjh:
Yep, 8V is quite high. In fact I epected more. I have a friend here in Brasilia who owns or did own a B&K V/A amp with 15V output!!
He was having the same problem you described in your first message. The amp he was using is an old QUAD 606 amp. I don't remember the spec for that one but I can tell you that the new one --model 909--has the spec 775mV (or 0.775V or 0dB) for 140 watts into 8ohms, i.e., ABOUT 10 TIMES LOWER THAN YOUR PREAMP OUTPUT!!
There are many European amps, I suspect, with this spec because of the equivalence to 0dB. I hope Klaus will read this and comment.
By the way, since you mentioned Mike Creek's OBH-8--I happen to distribute Creek here--I have had excellent results with the OBH-12 as a preamp for the Stratos, and mind you that's a PASSIVE PREAMP!
Bye,
Moyses

scottpretti · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 08:04 pm »

Quote from: moyses

Hi Guys:

"I am new to the site. I am an audio distributor in Brazil, and Odyssey is one of the products I am trying to bring into the country. "

Why can't they just buy from the Odyssey web site

Just woundering.

opps just checked the International Sales page on the site. sorry.

hammergjh · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Feb 2003, 09:51 pm »

Hi Everyone,
My opinion regarding any substandard sonic issues in my system, I believe are related to the preamp, the B&K PT3. That's my gut feeling. It sounded fine w/ my Hafler, and much better than the NAD 3020 it replaced. But believe it or not, very poor w/ a B&K ST2140 I tried out a few months ago. It was brand new. The ST2140 has similar power ratings to the Odyssey. The same type of sonic problems I'm hearing w/ my Odyssey, I heard w/ the ST2140. Glaring, constrained and indestinct sound at higher volumes. So I dumped it. Only 500 bucks.

BTW, the system sounds fine at lower to mid volume levels. Not overly punchy, but nice. I thought I'd get more out of it w/ the Odyssey, but as stated, I believe the preamp is the culprit. My wife is thrilled by all my vacillation regarding my system. I'm driving her nuts.

Here's a question. What preamps are people using, and what are their opinions regarding preamps to mate w/ the Odyssey. I believe that a higher voltage output preamp might sound better.

Thanks for looking.

Santo · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 12:17 am »

Using a Herron VTSP-1 tubed pre with fantastic success. Boasts one of the best analog volume controls available. Two sets of se outs. HT bypass. Found one on Audiogon. Love it.

Santo · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 12:20 am »

Will once again run it into my Stratos monos, once they return from their little "extreme" pep talk with the Obermeister Klaustenfuhrer. Shoulda shipped today.

W.C. · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 07:09 am »

I have been using the Odyssey Tempest with my monoblocks. I love the sound. Speakers are Infinity Kappa 9's.

eico1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 01:39 pm »

8v rms is typical for a pre-amp, it means it is using +-15 volt power supplys which is what most op-amps run at. You don't want the pre-amp to clip before the power amp.

steve

hammergjh · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 02:01 pm »

Eico1 (Steve),
Are you suggesting that's probably the case w/ my B&K. That it is clipping before the amp is? I just need a clarification. That might be, but why can I turn the gain up on my preamp much higher while it's hooked up to the Hafler vs. the Odyssey. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on here.

Thanks.

eico1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 02:23 pm »

no i'm suggesting the opposite, that that is the correct max output I'd like to see. Since that pre has a tuner built in there could be some high freq tuner hash leeking into your audio path. The Hafler rolls off the input at about 200kHz, maybe the other amps run wide open which would explain your experience nicely:) Try the cd player direct to amp if it have a volume controlled output.

steve

BlackCat · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Feb 2003, 02:43 pm »

I'm running a Monolithic Sound PA-1 Passive / Active preamp with my Odyssey Xtreme monoblocks. I also have the HC-1 power supply for it, but it only kicks in when in "active" mode - which is almost never, as it is quite loud at "passive" volumes. Fantastically transparent, and for the price, hard to beat. You might check out the Channel Islands VPC-1 also if you could be enticed into a passive preamp.