AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Channel Islands Audio Owners => Topic started by: CIAudio on 3 Jun 2020, 01:10 am
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Here is a glimpse of the prototype A3 standmount loudspeaker.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209881)
This is a 6.5” 2 way with a unique aperiodic tuning.
We use an underhung woofer with an inch of linear stroke and extended response due to it’s low inductance.
The 19mm silk dome is stiffer and lighter than typical 1” domes and has smooth extended response to 27k.
A custom waveguide machined into the 18 layer baltic birch baffle yields ultra low distortion and exceptional off axis response.
The result is a small speaker with ultra wide frequency response, rich & textured midrange, superb 3D imaging, and lifelike dynamics.
With solid bass into the low 30’s, this speaker sounds big and full like a much larger floorstander.
I’ll post more as the development progresses.
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Interesting. Active version coming too?
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Reminds me of the Buchardt S400. Hopefully will be even better.
What made you think about designing/building speakers? Are you working with anyone on the design?
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Reminds me of the Buchardt S400. Hopefully will be even better.
What made you think about designing/building speakers? Are you working with anyone on the design?
He's very involved in building speakers for someone.
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Interesting. Active version coming too?
no plans for an active standmount at the moment. If I did, it would be a nearfield monitor for the pro audio industry.
I do have a reference floorstander design with Ncore bass amplifiers and adjustable F3.
These will be next.
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Reminds me of the Buchardt S400. Hopefully will be even better.
What made you think about designing/building speakers? Are you working with anyone on the design?
I’ve built speakers for over 45 years and OEM for other companies. For example the current line of LSA was designed by Dan Wiggins and myself.
Many have heard my prototypes at various shows.
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Reminds me of the Buchardt S400. Hopefully will be even better.
What made you think about designing/building speakers? Are you working with anyone on the design?
The Buchardt looks similar... in fact it appears to use the same passive radiator and tweeter dome.
Maybe they’ve been spying on me as i’ve used waveguide designs for years.
Although similar in appearance, R3 will have much more linear stroke and bass extension.
Below is a prototype from the Newport show in 2015
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209897)
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I do have a reference floorstander design with Ncore bass amplifiers and adjustable F3.
These will be next.
Very cool. Can't wait for details about them. Will you publish polar plots or send to ASR for measurements?
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I’m sure we’ll publish measurements but conventional methods mean pretty much nothing.
Measuring at 1m on the tweeter axis tell you very little about it’s performance. I’m much more focused on off axis performance, which is what we actually listen to.
Our speakers will sell based on their realistic sound, not numbers and graphs.
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Congratulations Dusty!
Speakers are looking good! :D
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Reminds me of the Buchardt S400. Hopefully will be even better.
What made you think about designing/building speakers? Are you working with anyone on the design?
Have you heard the Buchardt?
I would expect it sounds very good. They seem to understand the many things a proper waveguide can do.
This type of design can easily create a big 3D soundscape when done properly. Looks like all SB Acoustics drivers and good engineering at an affordable price.
I’d like to hear them!
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Have you heard the Buchardt?
I would expect it sounds very good. They seem to understand the many things a proper waveguide can do.
This type of design can easily create a big 3D soundscape when done properly. Looks like all SB Acoustics drivers and good engineering at an affordable price.
I’d like to hear them!
I had them in my house next to my M2's. :thumb:
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What do you think about integrating subs with the R3s? I'm very eager to hear more about them, particularly if the imaging could be that nice...
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What do you think about integrating subs with the R3s? I'm very eager to hear more about them, particularly if the imaging could be that nice...
The R3 has strong bass performance down to around 30hz, so subs are not needed unless you need higher volume levels in a larger room.
Subs could be used, but always introduce other issues as you also need to filter low frequencies from the R3 with an active or passive filter.
The R3 is still being refined, but I can tell you the imaging is as good as anything you’ve ever heard 😉
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As development continues, we have reduced distortion in the low frequencies by eliminating the passive radiator and using a custom aperiodic tuning.
The aperiodic tuning removes non-linearities caused by the air-spring in the enclosure, while maintaining damping to the lowest frequencies. This approach yields performance similar to a transmission line but with greatly reduced cabinet size, and the smooth 2nd order roll-off makes it very friendly to a wide variety of room sizes.
The dimensions of the finished speaker are 15”h x 9”w x 10”d and weight is 30 lbs each
Due to this improved cabinet design, the speaker will now be called the a3
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Due to this improved cabinet design, the speaker will now be called the a3
I was hoping the "A" would be active the "P" version would be passive. :P
aP3 = aperiodic Passive 3
aA3 = aperiodic Active 3
;)
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That could possibly happen at some point :wink:
The 2nd speaker will be a6, a 4 driver floor-stander with custom 500w Ncore bass amplifiers with adjustable f3 and gain. The bass amplifiers drive two long-stroke 8” woofers in a similar aperiodic enclosure.
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That could possibly happen at some point ;)
The 2nd speaker will be a6, a 4 driver floor-stander with custom 500w Ncore bass amplifiers with adjustable f3 and gain. The bass amplifiers drive two long-stroke 8” woofers in a similar aperiodic enclosure.
Looking forward to the aA6. :D
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I can't wait to hear them at a show -- when there are shows again.
I used to own Fried IMF TLS 80 transmission line speakers which had exceptional bass. I listened with a Luxman integrated amp. Unfortunately, I returned to my apartment one day to find them vanished along with my TV and other electronics. The good news was I didn't have to sell them when I got hit with upgrade-itis.
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It's my opinion that stereo loudspeakers are generally designed wrong!
Most speakers are measured and designed for optimum on-axis performance and usually have very poor off-axis.
This would be okay if we listened to one speaker directly in front of us.
However with stereo music, we are seated between two speakers and listening to their 30-45 off-axis response.
The poor off-axis response forces us to aim the speakers at our ears (toe-in) to get good sound. This creates a very small "sweet spot" and also distorts the soundstage width and depth.
a3 was designed for its off-axis response.
Below is an unsmoothed graph of quick measurements of our prototype.
You'll see the on-axis (yellow) is the worst but still within a +/- 3db window.
The more important 15(red), 30(brown), and 45(green) degree measurements are almost identical, providing better response over a much wider listening area, and requiring little to no toe-in. Even at 45 degrees, we have extended response well past 20k, and there is also no sign of the crossover in any of the response curves :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213494)
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Here are measurements of a very popular speaker from a Stereophile review. You can see that the frequency response is all over the place except directly on-axis, and this is with 1/10th octave smoothing!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213500)
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Name names!
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As development continues, we have reduced distortion in the low frequencies by eliminating the passive radiator and using a custom aperiodic tuning.
The aperiodic tuning removes non-linearities caused by the air-spring in the enclosure, while maintaining damping to the lowest frequencies. This approach yields performance similar to a transmission line but with greatly reduced cabinet size, and the smooth 2nd order roll-off makes it very friendly to a wide variety of room sizes.
The dimensions of the finished speaker are 15”h x 9”w x 10”d and weight is 30 lbs each
Due to this improved cabinet design, the speaker will now be called the a3
I am a fan of aperiodic tuning and have been ever since my Dynaco A-25's way back when. Don't know why it hasn't been more widely used. You forgot to mention that it also produces a very linear impedance curve that gets the best out of amps. Hope to hear this design sometime. Did I mention that it also supports detailed and tight bass?
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Duke LeJuene of AudioKinesis designs speakers for best off axis response. I used to own his Jazz Modules which used the TAD 1102 driver and a 1" neodynium tweeter mounted in a round wave guide. Best box speakers I have ever owned. Definitely interested in hearing these speakers.
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lenses for the aperiodic vents were machined today :)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213811)
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Dan Wiggins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-lCnzd0ggs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-lCnzd0ggs)
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Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but any sensitivity ratings?
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Efficiency will be around 85~86db/2.83v.
Hard to get much more with a small, wide bandwidth loudspeaker.
We choose “system efficiency” over “speaker efficiency”.
For example, a pair of 96db efficient speakers being driven by a 3.5 watt SET amp will have a maximum output 99db and draw about 250 watts.
A pair of 85db efficient speakers powered by our C•100S will have a max output of 105db, with wider bandwidth, better dynamics, and draw only 240 watts.
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Having extremely well-behaved drivers allows for much simpler crossover design :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214614)
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Below are some quick measurements from a pre-production prototype a3.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216362)
Frequency response:
Purple= On axis (0 degrees)
Green= 15 degrees off axis
Orange= 30 degrees off axis
Red= 45 degrees off axis
Light Blue=Phase
Black=THD
It's rare to have flat/consistent response to beyond 20k from 0-45 degrees off axis.
Notice how all 4 FR measurements are near identical, this provides amazing imaging with a much larger sweet spot.
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That's a pretty impressive graph! Man I wish I could hear these things. Will you be sending any out for reviews?
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That's a pretty impressive graph! Man I wish I could hear these things. Will you be sending any out for reviews?
I'm sure we will get some reviews, but just trying to get the first 30 pair into production for now.
We will have 15 pair of Light Maple finish baffle with CI gray cabinet, and 15 pair of Dark Mahogany baffle with black cabinet.
I've also got prototypes of matching speaker stands being made. They are constructed of 17 layer baltic birch with heavy machined aluminum top plate, base is a sandwich of baltic birch and 1/8" aluminum.
Stands will be available in Maple and Mahogany finishes. Adjustable aluminum ball spikes are included.
December is still the target, but it always seems to take me a little longer :scratch:
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Here are measurements of a very popular speaker from a Stereophile review. You can see that the frequency response is all over the place except directly on-axis, and this is with 1/10th octave smoothing!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213500)
Of course you can't see what the response is on axis because the on-axis response is always normalized in Stereophile's measurements. All we see is pretty nasty off-axis curves.
Earlier in the thread you speak as if the matching off axis response of your design allows for speaker placement with less or no toe-in. I would have thought the advantage of good off-axis performance (and what is shown is extraordinarily good) would be that this enabled aiming the speakers inward, thus reducing wall bounce generated by speakers firing forward but close to the side walls, as I so often see in photos of listening rooms. If the 15, 30 and 45º curves are not level matched it looks like there is no potential to exploit the BBC technique of crossing the axes in front of the listener to widen the sweet spot, since this depends on falling levels off axis, not to speak of requiring high quality curves like yours, off axis.
Big fan of aperiodic boxes, not so much of 1st order crossovers.
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The waveguide controls directivity, limiting dispersion to 145 degrees. This makes the 1st reflection further away than with conventional designs. You can still toe-in if placement is near a wall but is not required to have good imaging.
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Below are some quick measurements from a pre-production prototype a3.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216362)
Frequency response:
Purple= On axis (0 degrees)
Green= 15 degrees off axis
Orange= 30 degrees off axis
Red= 45 degrees off axis
Light Blue=Phase
Black=THD
It's rare to have flat/consistent response to beyond 20k from 0-45 degrees off axis.
Notice how all 4 FR measurements are near identical, this provides amazing imaging with a much larger sweet spot.
I realize you are trying to fit an FR measurement, along with a phase measurement and THD measurement all on one vertical axis. The vertical axis is now poor in resolution as such and is a 100dB scale. It appears on your horizontal scale that the smoothing is ~?1 octave? Is that right, I am squinting a bit!?
Is there a way you can just post the FR measurements with as little as smoothing as possible to visualize the differences between the 3-4 curves? Do you have polar plot or contour plot measurements?
Thanks,
Anand.
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These are just quick measurements of a prototype under development to give you an idea of their off axis performance.
As you mentioned, the scale is to show many measurements on a single graph.
We will have a variety of performance measurements once we finalize and test actual production units.
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The final design has now been completed.
After testing various driver alignments and configurations, the passive radiator wins out over aperiodic.
I’m still a fan of aperiodic designs, but the tuned radiator works best in our design.
All parts are now in production... custom capacitors being made by Clarity Cap, Jantzen inductors coming from Poland, and cabinets being fabricated here in California.
If things stay on track, we’ll be shipping in late December!
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I'm in the market for a high performance bookshelf. Do you have an approximate price yet?
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Below are some quick measurements from a pre-production prototype a3.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216362)
Frequency response:
Purple= On axis (0 degrees)
Green= 15 degrees off axis
Orange= 30 degrees off axis
Red= 45 degrees off axis
Light Blue=Phase
Black=THD
It's rare to have flat/consistent response to beyond 20k from 0-45 degrees off axis.
Notice how all 4 FR measurements are near identical, this provides amazing imaging with a much larger sweet spot.
I've never seen a chart even remotely close to this for off-axis HF behaviour—and you appear to be using a conical waveguide for the tweeter which isn't all that unusual. I admit to being puzzled. What are other designers missing?
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Phase response is awesome! First order xo and time-aligned drivers. This is how you get truly natural tone, something few people have ever heard, the opposite of today's "hifi" speakers. Depending on the price, these should be very well received.
Congrats Dusty!
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I've never seen a chart even remotely close to this for off-axis HF behaviour—and you appear to be using a conical waveguide for the tweeter which isn't all that unusual. I admit to being puzzled. What are other designers missing?
The great off-axis response/high frequency extension is due primarily to the smaller 19mm dome.
The combination of waveguide, 19mm driver, and crossover offer many improvements if taken advantage of.
This system is more complex than it appears... for example, in our implementation the diameter of the waveguide determines the corner frequency, provides time alignment, and controls directivity (amongst other things) :wink:
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I'm in the market for a high performance bookshelf. Do you have an approximate price yet?
Price will be $3995/pair
Finish options are Light Maple baffle/Silver Gray cabinet, or Dark Mahogany baffle/Black cabinet.
We are also working on matching stands in both finishes, price to be determined.
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These should play nice with your C100S amp, right? Or will more power be needed?
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These should play nice with your C100S amp, right? Or will more power be needed?
C•100S works fantastic with them, and is one of the reference amplifiers i’ve been using in development.
Final speaker efficiency is 86~87db/2.83V and a very easy load to drive.
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I'm proud to announce that the 10 Statement model we designed/manufactured for LSA just won The Absolute Sound's Product of the Year 2020 for stand-mounted loudspeakers! I'll post a link once the issue is live on their website.
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I'm proud to announce that the 10 Statement model we designed/manufactured for LSA just won The Absolute Sound's Product of the Year 2020 for stand-mounted loudspeakers! I'll post a link once the issue is live on their website.
Wow! It doesn't get much better than that. Congratulations.
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Congrats!
Here's the original review
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/living-sounds-audio-lsa-10-statement-loudspeaker/
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I did not know you designed this loudspeaker - and it must be a good one.
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Woot! Congratulations, Dusty! :banana piano: :bowdown:
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I did not know you designed this loudspeaker - and it must be a good one.
Dan Wiggins & I designed four models for LSA... two stand-mounts and two floor-standers, each size having a "Signature" and "Statement" version.
All of them sound very good, but i think the LSA-10 "Signature" is the best bargain, especially for what Walter sells them for.
Overall I like our R3 better... a little warmer and fatter with better imaging, and a little sweeter on top. I hope it's as well received!
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We’ve taken an unconventional route for input jacks on r3. Instead of traditional chunky 5-way binding posts, we have chosen high-current/instrument-grade banana jacks. These low-mass plated copper connectors have a large contact patch, are very secure, and have a cleaner appearance. They can accept BFA plugs (as used on our WaveLink cables), or standard/shrouded/locking banana plugs.
The latest version of C•100S (now shipping) has also been fitted with the new connectors.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218258)
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Looking forward to seeing more info on this speaker.
Will the a3 come with grills?
Also, is there a recommended stand height?
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Our speaker models are designed without grills as they always degrade performance, and most people never use them.
Ideal stand height is determined by your listening space, but generally you want the tweeter at or slightly above your ear level.
Our matching stands set the tweeter height at 36-37", which is appropriate for most sofa/chair listening.
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After some delays, we're finally getting into production of the r3 and the 1st batch of cabinets are now awaiting assembly :)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221159)
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Great news, can't wait to hear them!
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Any more pics to post ?? :green:
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Here are some of the unfinished r3 baffles in Maple and Mahogany.
Core material is 18 layer Baltic Birch with rotary cut Maple or Mahogany on the outside, HPL on the inside.
Final machining, sanding, clear coat, and laser-engraving will be completed next week.
We will start taking pre-orders Monday the 15th and expect to start shipping before months end.
Limited quantities of both finishes will be available.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221839)
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do these special connectors take any banana plug or are they like the GR Research tube connectors that require a special pin connector?
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do these special connectors take any banana plug or are they like the GR Research tube connectors that require a special pin connector?
They'll take BFA, standard banana, locking banana, shrouded banana.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222857)
If you need cables, our WaveLink Studio is a great match.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222858)
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Here's a sneak peek of the Mahogany finish.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222859)
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and Maple finish
Baffles will be laser-engraved on Monday and 1st shipments will go out on the 15th!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222880)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222881)
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Those look incredible. Are you going to be at RMAF this year? I'd love to hear them.
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Those look incredible. Are you going to be at RMAF this year? I'd love to hear them.
Not sure what shows we might do yet, but RMAF is always a good one!
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how about providing a spade to banana adapter for those with expensive cables with spades as a lot of the manufacturers charge an arm and a leg to re-terminate.
this is the same problem i have with the gr research tube connectors just in this case you have to re-terminate if you have any other connector.
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how about providing a spade to banana adapter for those with expensive cables with spades as a lot of the manufacturers charge an arm and a leg to re-terminate.
this is the same problem i have with the gr research tube connectors just in this case you have to re-terminate if you have any other connector.
Using adapters would defeat the purpose of a low mass connection. Our speakers cables are under $300... sell your expensive ones and buy ours 😉
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Thought they were called the A3? The aluminum binding post plate says "R3". Or am I just confused?
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Thought they were called the A3? The aluminum binding post plate says "R3". Or am I just confused?
a3 was the original prototype design, r3 is the refined production model.
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Hello.
Nice looking speaker. Do you by any chance have tech specs or test data you can provide? Thanks
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Forget what I just asked as I see some data on the other pages as I was a bit lazy and didn't see the others pages. Good luck with your sales.
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Looks like a really cool speaker. Other than stats (which I use), smallish monitors are my favourite type of speaker. If I only had another room ....
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Digging the mahogany finish wow
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We're down to 1 pair of Mahogany and 3 pair of Maple.
If you're interested in a pair from the 1st production run, contact us for availability as they're going fast!
-Dusty/CIAudio (805) 984-8282
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Attached is a photo of a maple cabinet being assembled. looking forward to receiving a pair next week :green:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223396)
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here's a close up view of the machined waveguide
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223414)
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Last photo for now... official photos will be on our website in a week or so.
happyrabbit... this is one of yours :wink:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223450)
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Mahogany/Black are currently sold out.
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Great looking design, but I can't help wondering why you've got that nice roundover on the back, but none on the front or at the edge of the waveguide as it transitions into the baffle. Seems like that sharp edge will cause some serious diffraction effects.
Greg
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Great looking design, but I can't help wondering why you've got that nice roundover on the back, but none on the front or at the edge of the waveguide as it transitions into the baffle. Seems like that sharp edge will cause some serious diffraction effects.
Greg
There is very little reflection from the tweeter as it is controlled by the waveguide. A waveguige is a mild horn which controls directivity (in our case) to 130 degrees. Even with a standard mounted dome tweeter, the reflections are primarily off of the baffle surface, not the edge unless it protrudes (like a typical grille frame).
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Just arrived safely ! Thank you UPS :green: These speakers are really stunning in person.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223744)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223745)
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Looks great, those stands are a nice match!
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Have to say, they certainly have a distinctive look. Very nice! Do get back with some listening impressions......
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r3 is now available for order on our website.
https://ciaudio.com/product/ciaudio-r3 (https://ciaudio.com/product/ciaudio-r3)
For customers interested in the Mahogany/Black finish, we expect to have more assembled/tested/ready to ship in 3 weeks. Still in limited quantities, it's best to contact us to get on the waiting list. We do have 1 pair of B stock due to very slight cosmetic blemishes. If you have interest in these, give me a call for details and a special deal.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223937)(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223938)
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We are adding a new finish in the next run... Maple baffle with black cabinet.
Only a small number will be made, so call or email us to reserve a pair.
CIAudio (805) 984-8282
sales@ciaudio.com
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I've had my r3's for a couple of weeks, and I am thrilled with these speakers.
Imaging is fantastic, and the frequency response is smooth from high to low.
Bass response is impressive, and remains coherent at louder volumes. In my experience, some bookshelf speakers boasting lower frequency extension are actually sloppy or congested at louder volumes or with rock music. Not so with the r3's.
These speakers have an exceptionally clean sound, top to bottom.
I am travelling for a couple of weeks, but will post a more detailed report when I return.