[GreenMtnGringo]

Thanks for the welcome, James, and thank you, Robert212, for the encouragement.  I have been happy with the MG .7's after a few years of running MMG's, but I do not believe my current amp is getting the most out of the .7's.  I spoke with my Bryston dealer about his knowledge of and experience with Bryston-Maggie synergy and decided on the 4B³.  I can't wait to hear what the 4B³ can do in my system (primary sources are a PS Audio DirectStream, an OPPO BDP-105D and a Rega P25 with a Dynavector 20XH into a PS Audio GCPH).

[Rod_S]

I always take dealers with a big grain of salt -- they do want to sell them, after all.

Indeed

[Rod_S]

James, have you guys ever thought of developing a true cost no object line of amps which also takes into account ultimate cosmetics, elimination of the cross product components because they make production assembly easier (I'm thinking of things like the balanced inputs that allow for 1/4" plugs because they serve a purpose on the pro products, the layout of the 7's back panel basically being just one half of the 4's layout, etc., those types of things). I know these would sell just as all cost no object items sell and it would be interesting to hear and see what Bryston would have to offer in this market segment.

[James Tanner]

James, have you guys ever thought of developing a true cost no object line of amps which also takes into account ultimate cosmetics, elimination of the cross product components because they make production assembly easier (I'm thinking of things like the balanced inputs that allow for 1/4" plugs because they serve a purpose on the pro products, the layout of the 7's back panel basically being just one half of the 4's layout, etc., those types of things). I know these would sell just as all cost no object items sell and it would be interesting to hear and see what Bryston would have to offer in this market segment.

Hi

Honestly if we could build a better performing amplifier (if linearity of waveform is your goal)  we would.  The only way we could increase costs would be as you say to add ultimate cosmetics. That has its place but it really is not who we are. 

Our products represent state of the art performance at a price that most serious listeners can afford.  To be honest I find products that look great and perform poorly and cost ridiculous amounts of money is sadly more common than you may think. I also think these poor performing but cosmetically appealing products injure the credibility of our industry.

james

[Rod_S]

I can certainly understand that. For many it's simply a matter of what's the most expensive is the best performing, simple as that with absolutely no evidence to back it up. When they try it's always well this power supply is more expensive or robust, this chip is better, etc. etc. I'm sure in some cases there may be differences in performance that can be heard but is it better, maybe not, the difference in sound may be because the "better" sounding device was tuned to produce a very desired effect.

[drummermitchell]

Exactly,
I forget which company but they had used Oppo bluray internals  and put their own face plate(box)around it.
Instead of 8-900 she was 3600.00 .
It was a highend  company also.
Just like auto parts, GM you pay premium,thru NAPA way lower cost for the same thing.
Friggin thieves.
The net usually you can find  some very good info.
Actually my Stewart Studiotek 100 even in Alberta I saved 600.00 by asking for pricing from two dealers.
you could say that`s a vehicle or mortgage payment.
It pays to shop around,and damned if I`d throw that kind of cash out the window .

[srb]

I forget which company but they had used Oppo bluray internals and put their own face plate(box)around it.  Instead of 8-900 she was 3600.00.  It was a highend  company also.

It was the Lexicon BD-30 that housed an Oppo BDP-83, and what made it unusual was rather than transplanting the Oppo circuit boards and sub assemblies, it actually contained the entire original Oppo chassis within its own chassis.

Back at that time that the Oppo BD-83 was available, several Bryston users in this circle said they would gladly pay an additional ~ $1500 for the Oppo internals packaged in a pretty Bryston wrapper!  Go figure.

Steve

[Rod_S]

Similarly I believe on the BDA3 thread on either this forum or another it was revealed that the Esoteric K05X SACD player & DAC was using a very similar chip to the BDA3 (AKM 4490) with I believe the only main difference in performance was according to James a roll off in the top end on the Esoteric version, perhaps purposefully making it less linear to give a warmer sound. So naturally with the Esoteric player being more expensive than the BDA3, how often are you going to find someone say they couldn't hear a difference or they preferred the BDA3 over the K05X? People will of course site all the "better" internals of the K05X for the reasons. Also somehow the Esoteric is able to get 34bit processing from the 32bit DAC's. Perhaps there's something to that but I highly doubt in a blind test most could hear a difference between 32bit and 34bit when the majority can't hear a difference between 16 and 24 let alone 24 and 32.

[adol290]

You have to remember that the k-05x also incorporates a CD/SACD player. Take a look at the high end Transport Mechanism. Compare that with the proposed
 BCD-3. It's a different ballgame. So that alone adds a big cost to the k-05x.

Not defending it, but just stating.

As for the DAC portion, yes it has some interesting specifications. But they also allow you to do may tweaks to the output. Some being:

Playback at the original sampling frequency, 2X, 4X and 8X up-conversion of the PCM digital signal

A range of D/D conversion modes are also available for the PCM format, such as PCM-to-DSD conversion

A selection of 4 different digital filters. FIR1, FIR2, SLDY1, SLDY2.


I would love to see a GUI on the BDA-3 that would allow the default bryston settings, along with the above tweaks. I personally have had the experience where
 depending on the speaker you have, a FIR1 filter would sound great, and on another speaker the SLDY2 would sound the best. The BDA-3 was hard set with one
 of these 4 filters.

[Armaegis]

I believe Goldmund also repackaged Oppo players, though did at least make a couple changes.

[Grant Hill]

I believe Goldmund also repackaged Oppo players, though did at least make a couple changes.

Correct. But they did make changes indeed.

[Grant Hill]

You have to remember that the k-05x also incorporates a CD/SACD player. Take a look at the high end Transport Mechanism. Compare that with the proposed
 BCD-3. It's a different ballgame. So that alone adds a big cost to the k-05x.

Not defending it, but just stating.

As for the DAC portion, yes it has some interesting specifications. But they also allow you to do may tweaks to the output. Some being:

Playback at the original sampling frequency, 2X, 4X and 8X up-conversion of the PCM digital signal

A range of D/D conversion modes are also available for the PCM format, such as PCM-to-DSD conversion

A selection of 4 different digital filters. FIR1, FIR2, SLDY1, SLDY2.


I would love to see a GUI on the BDA-3 that would allow the default bryston settings, along with the above tweaks. I personally have had the experience where
 depending on the speaker you have, a FIR1 filter would sound great, and on another speaker the SLDY2 would sound the best. The BDA-3 was hard set with one
 of these 4 filters.

Sorry, can you explain what is a GUI?

[mamba315]

Graphical User Interface

[Grant Hill]

Thank you!

[Rod_S]

You have to remember that the k-05x also incorporates a CD/SACD player. Take a look at the high end Transport Mechanism. Compare that with the proposed
 BCD-3. It's a different ballgame. So that alone adds a big cost to the k-05x.

Not defending it, but just stating.

As for the DAC portion, yes it has some interesting specifications. But they also allow you to do may tweaks to the output. Some being:

Playback at the original sampling frequency, 2X, 4X and 8X up-conversion of the PCM digital signal

A range of D/D conversion modes are also available for the PCM format, such as PCM-to-DSD conversion

A selection of 4 different digital filters. FIR1, FIR2, SLDY1, SLDY2.


I would love to see a GUI on the BDA-3 that would allow the default bryston settings, along with the above tweaks. I personally have had the experience where
 depending on the speaker you have, a FIR1 filter would sound great, and on another speaker the SLDY2 would sound the best. The BDA-3 was hard set with one
 of these 4 filters.

True about the expensive transport however that has no baring on the sound, simply the price. With the Bryston BDA3 DAC you can also up sample but it does not allow for selecting different filters as you mention. Also the BDA3 can't to my knowledge convert PCM to DSD as you mention the K05X can do.

[Grant Hill]

In case you'd like to compare the BDA-3 with Esoteric's product, I think you'd have to pick the D-07x, which is a D/A Converter like the BDA-3. D-07x's price should be around 5.000$

[adol290]

Or you could compare the Teac UD-503 which is the general consumer version of esoteric. It uses the 4490 chips.

 It has all of the digital filter settings/etc that I listed above for the k-05x. Also has a master clock input.

 It is half the price of the BDA-3.

[CanadianMaestro]

You have to remember that the k-05x also incorporates a CD/SACD player. Take a look at the high end Transport Mechanism. Compare that with the proposed
 BCD-3. It's a different ballgame. So that alone adds a big cost to the k-05x.

Not defending it, but just stating.

The transport has little/no impact on SQ -- once the disc is lifted off the tray....

[Rod_S]

In case you'd like to compare the BDA-3 with Esoteric's product, I think you'd have to pick the D-07x, which is a D/A Converter like the BDA-3. D-07x's price should be around 5.000$

I believe they both use the same chip, the 05 and 07, the 07 would be closer in price to the BDA3 though.

[Grant Hill]

I believe they both use the same chip, the 05 and 07, the 07 would be closer in price to the BDA3 though.

Yes, even if the D-07x seems newer poject than D-05