Can Odyssey Amps lose power under heavy load conditions?

Arcticdeth · « **on:** 8 Dec 2013, 11:43 pm »

First and foremost, this is not meant to be crass, im simply questioning anpost i read on another forum. Second: i WILL BE PURCHASING a pair of kismet monoblocks, and these posts by unhappy customers, do not sway me from this purchase.
I need quite a lot of time to save for such a large purchase, and all my questions, banter are merely for the truth, and also to have fun. I am not a dick. I swear.

dont want this post deleted, I just wanna get to some reviews I have read. I KNOW all the great stuff said about these odyssey amps, its everywhere, i know this.

I want to mention the breakup of sound and stuff at high volume, where the amp is pushed right to its 200W limit, I have read they get really harsh,and can not keep up very well when being pushed, and lose control. I am a serious amp owner, I have had amps by krell, pass labs, rotel, onkyo m-500 series(all of them) and still run an aging pair of Threshold stasis amps in my audio den. I just want this to be an easy question....... I dont want fanboys to get angry, or people getting irate for asking, Ij ust want to know, as I AM in the market for a nice newer pair of amps, and all the questions I ask all over get deleted or pushed aside.....I dont get it. I can be very happy with a pair of 200W mono's, but I want to be SURE I am buying what will be a great product. I am not a prude or a dick, i swear, I just want to know truth's.....and if you guys quote the line by jack nicholson, your a schmuck

Really want to get a nice pair of mono's, buut am questioning the kismets just a bit, from other reviews about the not having the headroom to cover it...when needed, and when i want to " turn it up " serious answers only please. This may make or break my my decision. your expertise is appreciated.

Klaus, I have spoken with you, I know you know your sh*t. I am in the final stages of decision making, and have a couple amps lined u p, i am in final mode for purchase, and need to know without a doubt, this is what I want. cheers guys.

geowak · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Dec 2013, 11:57 pm »

I had a Stratos for about two years. I had many problems with it. Spurious noise and low level buzzing and hum. Sent it back to Klaus and never could get it fixed. This took place over many, many months. I sold it back to Klaus at a loss. Went with a McCormack DNA amp and later a Parasound A21, which I still have and love.

That being said, many others here have had great luck with Odyssey products, I was just not one of them.

I think what I learned from this is that it's not wise to buy into the "hype" about any product. Testing out gear is the best option. Also, getting all the details between you and the seller/designer of the product you are test driving is imperative. Knowing that you can get all your money back, and how long the trial period lasts, etc, etc. is really important. What one person loves, you may hate. It's always up to the buyer to do the research, pick what you like, take into consideration price, performance and customer service.

G Georgopoulos · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 12:28 am »

"Odyssey Amps lose power"

That's impossible...

soundbitten1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 12:29 am »

My experience with Odyssey is totally the opposite. Bought my Stratos new and it has run virtually 24/7 for the past 12 years without a hiccup. It is in a 24x24 room with cathedral ceilings powering Dunlavy Athenas. Never has broken down, has plenty of power and doesn't sound the least bit strained when pushed. For me this amp is a real keeper.

Phil A · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 12:37 am »

The Odyssey (Khartago mono block) amps at the Capital Audiofest played insanely loud. They were cranking. Sounds more like they could not get the voltage they needed?

Phil A · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 12:41 am »

This was the set-up at the Capital Audiofest

germay0653 · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 02:17 am »

I have two Khartago Mono Extreme's and have run them 24/7 for about three years. I've never had a problem with them and my ears hurt before I could even max them out, with no distortion, in a medium sized room (20' x 15') running a pair of Paradigm Studio 40's.

golfugh · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 03:44 am »

I have 3 of Klaus amps; HT-3 (for center and surrounds), and 2 Stratos monos that have been upgraded several times (and will be upgraded again...if someone hadn't slashed my tires they would be in Indy). I'm not a fan boy, but am an appreciative customer for what Klaus provides at this price level.

I've brought in several amps in an attempt to replace Klaus amps (Bryston, Sanders, Parasound, Wyred...all used except the Bryston) for a fully balanced system, all to no avail. My system is in my signature.

I've had hum, always related to running off of 2 separate 20 amp circuits. When I switch the entire system to 1 20 amp circuit no issues with hum. Not saying Geowak didn't have issues with his...just saying what I've experienced.

I can not think of a scenario where you could clip, over drive, push the Odyssey amps into any situation where they will not drive "most" speakers with aplomb that are available on the market.

The Odyssey amps are extremely musical amps. Call it slightly warm, or whatever they are just musical amps. I feel they impart little on the overall picture, but do present things in a less analytical manner. If that isn't your choice, and you prefer a more neutral/analytical presentation then they might not be your "cup o' tea."

If you provide Klaus with your system specifics, as he requests, you will "probably" not be disappointed. If I replace Klaus amps it will be to have a fully balanced system either tubes or solid state, but I haven't found a better amp at this price point.

As a point of reference I'd buy the Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monos tomorrow if I had the coin due to what I've experienced working with Klaus, and his amps are effectively Symphonic Line amps.

Great amps, great service and one of the good guys in the audio manufacturer world.

Hope that helped
Mark

hukkfinn · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 02:39 pm »

Hi there,

It would be helpful if you tell us what kind of speakers you have, and which preamp you're using. Also, power conditioner if any. The source would also be good to know. And, anything unusual that you are doing (for example, using four-meter interconnects, or using multiple preamps in line with each other - anything we would not expect)

I have had the Stratos Extreme monoblocs for almost 10 years, they have never come CLOSE to maxing out. They just sit there on the floor, and work. Day and night. I am a VERY picky audiophile. Yes, I've heard better power amps, but at GREAT cost compared to my babies. Klaus has them now, upgrading to the Kismet circuit boards and capacitors.

-Hukk

Eugene2 · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: geowak on 8 Dec 2013, 11:57 pm

I had a Stratos for about two years. I had many problems with it. Spurious noise and low level buzzing and hum. Sent it back to Klaus and never could get it fixed. This took place over many, many months. I sold it back to Klaus at a loss. Went with a McCormack DNA amp and later a Parasound A21, which I still have and love.

That being said, many others here have had great luck with Odyssey products, I was just not one of them.

I think what I learned from this is that it's not wise to buy into the "hype" about any product. Testing out gear is the best option. Also, getting all the details between you and the seller/designer of the product you are test driving is imperative. Knowing that you can get all your money back, and how long the trial period lasts, etc, etc. is really important. What one person loves, you may hate. It's always up to the buyer to do the research, pick what you like, take into consideration price, performance and customer service.

I have owned a lot of audio equipment from Thiel 03a driven by audio research sp11 mkII driven by VT100 amp to talon firebird diamonds driven by pass labs amps and krell fpb 200. I met Klaus at a CES show and decided to try his mono amps. I also purchased his hybrid preamp. Iwill tell you they have a lot of headroom, are very articulate and stage like crazy. Personally I have never had any issues of distortion or noise. I have a friend that purchased my entire system because he did not want to go through the learning process of purchasing a high end system and was enamored with mine. Also I moved to smaller quarters and had the ability to go to his house and listen whenever I wanted. I purchased a couple of different systems since then, VMPS and Swan driven by Wyred4Sound DAC and amp. I now have what I deem the best system I have heard in a long time. Odyssey Kismet integrated (which Klaus will be upgrading to dual mono) vapor sound Cirrus, Rel r218 subs, oppo 105, April music eximus dp1 Dac and verastarr cables, with room tuning panels I purchased from Sam ash music. So with all that said I would ask Klaus to send you a unit and ensure you can get your money back. As far as service I had issues with my preamp and Alex fixed them and sent the preamp right back.
Btw, which negative reviews are you referring to I have read nothing but superlative reviews from the audiophile community. Let your own ears be the judge not commentary on blogs.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Dec 2013, 09:59 pm »

Guess I do have to chime in here:

1. Guys, it's NOT Wattage......it's current, current, current.

2. As I told you, I can build you a current monster with the big ass, huge SL caps and a bigger trannie, in the 400.000 + uF region !!!!!!!!!!!!! To put this in perspective, that's a 12 banger AMG engine.....

3. As for losing power ?????? What ???? Yes, there are actually instances where some with some speakers the amps do run out of power at very loud levels....but man, that's extremely rare, and quite insane. Even I wouldn't play that loud or would have that difficult a speaker....To put it into perspective: we have 3 owners of original Apogee Scintillas with 3 different mono amps and while I haven't heard any of these systems, the feedback from those guys has been awesome....the specs ? 79 dB @ 1.2 Ohm nominal. Can you say amp killers ???

4. As for Geowack, forget about most of his comments. Yes, there were problems in his system, apparently, and there is a back story to all of this, and the units that I bought back from him (which I normally never do , but tried to help him out after he asked me to, and at which I diverted this sale to a customer of mine and essentially waived my profits,) didn't have the slightest hum problems and the customer has been very happy since. Anyway, a deal gone bad, but that was over 5 years ago, and ever since then, if there is a chance to chime in with a bad comment, there it is, reliably. Over 5 years, since then our products changed incredibly, and there is no way whatsoever that even apples for apples, they can be put in the same league in any which way......however, if his system is better for him with less problems, then good for him, and I really mean it........let's just leave it this way. So, any comments that you would have to take into consideration, positive or negative, really should be more current, like a year or less old.

5. 4600 + customers, the vast majority happy with well over 90 % still owning the original gear, and only about 12-15 deals that went South down the drain one way or the other in 25 years. Not bad

6. However, if you really, really have your heart set on 500 + Watts, then, as I told you before, you would have to look elsewhere..........just be aware that amp a. 500 Watts is not the same as amp b. 500 Watts.........current, current, current !!!!!!!

7. And yes, there is no substitution to discussing every single detail in the system and especially the amps and then taking it for a test ride in your own system............

Late,
Klaus

Arcticdeth · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Dec 2013, 01:04 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 9 Dec 2013, 09:59 pm

Guess I do have to chime in here:

1. Guys, it's NOT Wattage......it's current, current, current.

2. As I told you, I can build you a current monster with the big ass, huge SL caps and a bigger trannie, in the 400.000 + uF region !!!!!!!!!!!!! To put this in perspective, that's a 12 banger AMG engine.....

3. As for losing power ?????? What ???? Yes, there are actually instances where some with some speakers the amps do run out of power at very loud levels....but man, that's extremely rare, and quite insane. Even I wouldn't play that loud or would have that difficult a speaker....To put it into perspective: we have 3 owners of original Apogee Scintillas with 3 different mono amps and while I haven't heard any of these systems, the feedback from those guys has been awesome....the specs ? 79 dB @ 1.2 Ohm nominal. Can you say amp killers ???

Late,
Klaus

1) - Explain watts vs. current, why is current better, than having a 500W mono block with lower current ??

2) - 400,000 uF region - vs 180,000 or 300,000 - why is this better...??-----please explain what the higher numbers mean ? I know about this in a vague sort of way, need a refresher....

3) - have 4 Ohm speakers that can handle 400W continuous - i like loud, dont want amps to go into clipping and damage my speakers, if they can not give out what I want when i want to push them into overdrive...... explain please.......

I have 2 pairs of cerwin vega D-9's with new woofers ( 122oz magnet vented magnet structure) reworked crossovers, high quality caps, etc etc, vifa tweeter, and custom B&W midranges. they are not just wicked, buut their sound is also amazing.

hibuckhobby · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Dec 2013, 02:10 pm »

If your desire is live concert levels (and you don't care about your hearing a few years from now)
the issue is not just power, but the ability of your speakers to produce the spl's you want without
distorting. The fact that they are rated at a certain power point does not mean they sound good
with that level of power going into them. It's more of a "after this...they blow/burn up) thing.

Current reserves will help control your woofers when a sudden increase in spl comes. (an over
simplification w/o getting into theory too deeply). It will also help when the load the speaker presents to the amplifier drops lower than the nominal rating of the speaker. (which is very common) Cerwin Vega's even without custom work will get hella loud with 200 watts. If you want more headroom, the best approach is to get amps rated for more power or speakers that will play louder and remain clean at a given power input level.
just .02,
Hibuck....

Phil A · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Dec 2013, 02:50 pm »

Here is some basics - http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/amp.htm

I learned that lesson many moons ago about watts. Had a Phase Linear 120W channel amp and had a friend who owned a stereo store. One of the brands he carried at the time was Amber (both brands are no longer made). Had listened a few times and clearly felt the Amber was better sounding. He had a party at the store and the Amber rep was there and told me if I buy that night (he knew I was ready and he also wanted a sale while the rep was there), he would sell it at cost. Took it home and quickly discovered the 70W Amber would play louder than the 120W Phase Linear.

Arcticdeth · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Dec 2013, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 9 Dec 2013, 09:59 pm

Guess I do have to chime in here:

1. Guys, it's NOT Wattage......it's current, current, current.

2. As I told you, I can build you a current monster with the big ass, huge SL caps and a bigger trannie, in the 400.000 + uF region !!!!!!!!!!!!! To put this in perspective, that's a 12 banger AMG engine.....

Late,
Klaus

what can you offer me as far as making a pair of kizmets in strato's chassis ?? ill wait patiently for your answer...............

Ed_Zachary · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 02:11 am »

Quote from: Arcticdeth on 10 Dec 2013, 01:04 pm

1) - Explain watts vs. current, why is current better, than having a 500W mono block with lower current ??

2) - 400,000 uF region - vs 180,000 or 300,000 - why is this better...??-----please explain what the higher numbers mean ? I know about this in a vague sort of way, need a refresher....

3) - have 4 Ohm speakers that can handle 400W continuous - i like loud, dont want amps to go into clipping and damage my speakers, if they can not give out what I want when i want to push them into overdrive...... explain please.......

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/electronics-measurement-ohms-law.html

Mr "Deth", at some point YOU will need to stand up on YOUR own feet, learn a little something about Ohm's Law and the interrelationship between Current, Watts, Voltage and Ohms (Resistance). That will require Effort on YOUR part, but as is almost always the case, EFFORT pays dividends. You will no longer have to ask anyone to explain "watts vs current", you will KNOW the answer for yourself.

The link above is a place for your journey to start. An Intro to Electrical Fundamentals course at a local community college would be an even better place to start, but that would require that YOU invest a bit of YOUR time and effort into attending a few classes 2 or 3 days a week for about 3 months.

Believe it or not, ALL your questions are answered by this chart:

lazydays · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 05:06 am »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey on 9 Dec 2013, 09:59 pm

Guess I do have to chime in here:

1. Guys, it's NOT Wattage......it's current, current, current.

2. As I told you, I can build you a current monster with the big ass, huge SL caps and a bigger trannie, in the 400.000 + uF region !!!!!!!!!!!!! To put this in perspective, that's a 12 banger AMG engine.....

3. As for losing power ?????? What ???? Yes, there are actually instances where some with some speakers the amps do run out of power at very loud levels....but man, that's extremely rare, and quite insane. Even I wouldn't play that loud or would have that difficult a speaker....To put it into perspective: we have 3 owners of original Apogee Scintillas with 3 different mono amps and while I haven't heard any of these systems, the feedback from those guys has been awesome....the specs ? 79 dB @ 1.2 Ohm nominal. Can you say amp killers ???

4. As for Geowack, forget about most of his comments. Yes, there were problems in his system, apparently, and there is a back story to all of this, and the units that I bought back from him (which I normally never do , but tried to help him out after he asked me to, and at which I diverted this sale to a customer of mine and essentially waived my profits,) didn't have the slightest hum problems and the customer has been very happy since. Anyway, a deal gone bad, but that was over 5 years ago, and ever since then, if there is a chance to chime in with a bad comment, there it is, reliably. Over 5 years, since then our products changed incredibly, and there is no way whatsoever that even apples for apples, they can be put in the same league in any which way......however, if his system is better for him with less problems, then good for him, and I really mean it........let's just leave it this way. So, any comments that you would have to take into consideration, positive or negative, really should be more current, like a year or less old.

5. 4600 + customers, the vast majority happy with well over 90 % still owning the original gear, and only about 12-15 deals that went South down the drain one way or the other in 25 years. Not bad

6. However, if you really, really have your heart set on 500 + Watts, then, as I told you before, you would have to look elsewhere..........just be aware that amp a. 500 Watts is not the same as amp b. 500 Watts.........current, current, current !!!!!!!

7. And yes, there is no substitution to discussing every single detail in the system and especially the amps and then taking it for a test ride in your own system............

Late,
Klaus

when I got my new speakers from you, and hooked them up. You picked out a couple CD's and commenced to crack the plaster on the ceiling!! My ears hurt! I think they might have been about 65% and just rolling along. But the test was that we played about three CD's strait thru that loud. All the while I'm thinking we're just gonna trash my brand new speakers. That was probably in 2005 or very early 2006 maybe. I could crank them up that loud tonight without any problem, and probably a lot louder for a couple hours effortlessly

Each and everytime I've ran into a hum or worse in my systems, it went right back to the cables and the wall out let with the exception of tubes going bad two or three times.
gary

Scottdazzle · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 06:27 pm »

Quote from: Ed_Zachary on 13 Dec 2013, 02:11 am

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/electronics-measurement-ohms-law.html

Mr "Deth", at some point YOU will need to stand up on YOUR own feet, learn a little something about Ohm's Law and the interrelationship between Current, Watts, Voltage and Ohms (Resistance). That will require Effort on YOUR part, but as is almost always the case, EFFORT pays dividends. You will no longer have to ask anyone to explain "watts vs current", you will KNOW the answer for yourself.

The link above is a place for your journey to start. An Intro to Electrical Fundamentals course at a local community college would be an even better place to start, but that would require that YOU invest a bit of YOUR time and effort into attending a few classes 2 or 3 days a week for about 3 months.

Believe it or not, ALL your questions are answered by this chart:

Ed,

You have only a few posts so you get the benefit of the doubt. Audio Circle exists as a forum for us to help each other out. Arcticdeth asked some perfectly reasonable questions. You are free to help him or not, but your lecturing personal comments are not helpful to him or anyone else.

Maybe you will need answers to questions that others find obvious someday. Hopefully you will get a more civil response when that day comes.

Ed_Zachary · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 07:30 pm »

Response in a PM.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Dec 2013, 07:52 pm »

I can only say the sound Odyssey produces at RMAF is not just amazing for the price, it is a great system not considering price at all. And I have heard it played loud too. I think it's going to be difficult if not impossible to find a better value in high end audio today.

Also, mentioning amp without speakers is like recommending a car without knowing what it will be used for. We may be looking at a nice sports car when we really need a dump truck.