Need recommendations for *pure,* clean digital signal/sound from Qobuz/streamer

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tinkerphile

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For streaming Qobuz, I am currently using a T490 laptop with SSHD, using WASAPI Excl, tethered to the DAC.  After sifting through about a couple hundred topic/threads, I didn't see the answers I was looking for, so I'm hoping the good folks here may be able to help.  I'd really like to get rid of the laptop and its USB tether.  I'd replace it with some sort of handheld *device* (mac mini?) kept at the listening chair, to be used exclusively for Qobuz site/functions, as I have in mind to sync with a very high quality streamer.  At least that what I think I might do; problem is, I don't have a clue if this is any kind of solution.

 I don't kneed any storage on the streamer, and the only reason for the streamer is inherent *noise* in the laptop, as well as the pain in the caboose a tethered device can be.  And, I don't need Roon.  I just want to achieve the highest possible quality sound/signal from Qobuz to the DAC, and to send *commands* or operate the Qobuz site while seated/listening; that's all.  I'm sorta turned off on super high dollar servers with a boatload of storage and functions I don't need or want.  I have read Auralic may offer a high-end solution.  I don't know which hand-held device would be best to use from the listening position.  I don't understand why this seems to be so difficult to sort out, but I guess I'm not the first person to have the same experience.  Thanks much in advance.  I'll likely have to clarify what it is I want to achieve - - no problem, I can do that. 

Ice10

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I’m the admitted audio dummy here but I love my Bluesound Node 2i connected to a DAC to my integrated amp.  I sit on the couch with my iPad and listen to a larger library of music than I ever imagined. Is there better? I’m sure there is, but given the price and sound quality of the set up I couldn’t be happier. 

Meicheng

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Yea, Bluesound Node 2i to a DAC sounds great, controlled by an phone or tablet.  Cambridge Audio makes the CXN V2 streamer/DAC, also controlled by a phone/tablet app.  You should be able to control almost any streamer with a phone or tablet, using the appropriate app.  Usually very good sound.  Qobuz is great. 

garyalex

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I do it a little differently than you describe.  I use a Raspberry Pi 4 connected to my external DAC via USB. I installed Moode Audio as the OS.  That gives me access to the external hard drive connected to the RPi 4.  I access Moode via a browser on my iPad or iPhone.  For Qobuz I loaded an app called mConnect on my iPad and iPhone.  mConnect uses Moode as the UpnP renderer, so I just first open Moode, then mConnect.  That allows me complete access to Qobuz including my playlists and favorites, as well as my NAS.  The only cost was for the RPi 4 and an SD card - about $65.  And the sound is great.

skifasterslc

I plugged in a bluesound node 2i out to dac streaming quboz via ethernet in my system back in Febuary, it exceeded my expectations for ease of use, sound quality and content, old cd player has not been fired up since. Of course there is "better" but I am very satisfied

rollo

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  That would be a Streamer. Which depends on budget. There are differences to be had according to budget. Is this your main listening source ?


charles

Delta77

I'm also fairly new to streamers..

I'm using an Innuos Zen (streamer) which was rather expensive with a USB to a modified oppo 205 (DAC)..

I use my Ipad to control it.

If I were to get something today I would get the Cambridge Audio piece that everyone is talking about, for around $1,000.. And eventually get it modified by Modwright..

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156734.0

Should have some modern conveniences , easy to use , and able to be improved upon  (Modwright)..

Just my 2 cents
« Last Edit: 2 Jun 2021, 08:27 pm by Delta77 »

sunnydaze

I plugged in a bluesound node 2i out to dac streaming quboz via ethernet in my system back in Febuary, it exceeded my expectations for ease of use, sound quality and content, old cd player has not been fired up since. Of course there is "better" but I am very satisfied

I did the same, and share your sentiments, about 6 mos ago.  I run it into a Border Patrol SE DAC, which adds a touch of organic humanity to the sound.  And the Blue-OS operating system is regarded as the best and most user-friendly of all.....according to the "experts".  FWIW.  Check the plethora of very positive YT and written reviews.

Perfect for a know-nothing-completely-intimidated streaming / computer audio guy like me.    :thumb:

tinkerphile

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I do it a little differently than you describe.  I use a Raspberry Pi 4 connected to my external DAC via USB. I installed Moode Audio as the OS.  That gives me access to the external hard drive connected to the RPi 4.  I access Moode via a browser on my iPad or iPhone.  For Qobuz I loaded an app called mConnect on my iPad and iPhone.  mConnect uses Moode as the UpnP renderer, so I just first open Moode, then mConnect.  That allows me complete access to Qobuz including my playlists and favorites, as well as my NAS.  The only cost was for the RPi 4 and an SD card - about $65.  And the sound is great.


That's very helpful, and thank you for the super nice description of hardware, connections, and the software.  I don't know that much about the RPi4 electronics, but it does seem by virtue of its architecture to have potential to be clean and noise free.  Let me ask you, if you will: Since I won't be connecting to an external HD, and supposing I'll use and iPad, and the RPi4 to my DAC, could you walk me through what and how you would see software/apps, etc., functioning (I'm quite novice and uninitiated when it comes to things like a basic understanding of RPi4 works, what may have to be uploaded to it, and how it's recognized by the iPad for functioning, and this type of thing.)  Your description of your setup was easy to follow and digest.

tinkerphile

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  That would be a Streamer. Which depends on budget. There are differences to be had according to budget. Is this your main listening source ?


charles

Yes, it is my main system.  Until last year, I was all-vinyl and had focused on developing pretty high-end system.  For a couple reasons, I jumped into the digital world with a decent DAC and Qobuz.  My budget, well it's like this:  While I do plan to upgrade my DAC considerably, that will be a significant cost.  So my main goal is to achieve a very high value/SQ  with whatever streaming device I can find, new or used.  But at the same time, I'm not yet convinced that spending several grand is necessary - even when attempting to build a pretty high end system foundation.  So bottom line is I really don't know what price-point I'm entering into here.  Does that make sense?

Tom Bombadil

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Another option, based upon the Raspberry Pi, is the Orchard Audio PecanPi.  The builder uses a lot of quality components.  The internal DAC is a decent Burr-Brown 1794A, a bit dated but a good 24-bit DAC chip.  It has a good quality analog output section, much better than any of the other streamers I've seen in this price range.  The DAC, output stage and power supply are better than what is found in the Bluesound Node 2i or even the new Node which comes out this month.   It doesn't do MQA.  It does have USB digital outputs for use with an external DAC.  Reviews have been very positive. 

https://orchardaudio.com/pecanpi-reviews-and-specs


garyalex

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That's very helpful, and thank you for the super nice description of hardware, connections, and the software.  I don't know that much about the RPi4 electronics, but it does seem by virtue of its architecture to have potential to be clean and noise free.  Let me ask you, if you will: Since I won't be connecting to an external HD, and supposing I'll use and iPad, and the RPi4 to my DAC, could you walk me through what and how you would see software/apps, etc., functioning (I'm quite novice and uninitiated when it comes to things like a basic understanding of RPi4 works, what may have to be uploaded to it, and how it's recognized by the iPad for functioning, and this type of thing.)  Your description of your setup was easy to follow and digest.

I think for an idea of what to expect from software, the first thing to do is to go to moodeaudio.org  Just read through the information regarding set up and use. Being unfamiliar with the RPi 4 it may seem confusing and complicated, but it isn't really.  They have a guide which takes you through the setup.  Once set up, you power up the Raspberry Pi 4.  In this configuration Moode audio is your operating system.  It's not just an application. On the iPad you access the RPi 4 by entering "moode.local" in your browser.  In my system it takes a few seconds to open. At that point you'll see the Moode audio interface.  Remember that in this configuration the iPad (or iPhone) is just the device you use to connect to the RPi 4 on the internet and work within Moode audio.  It has no effect on the sound at all and no additional apps are required. Keep in mind that my RPi4 is connected to the network via ethernet.  This will also work with wifi but I've never done it that way so I can't speak to how well it works.  By the way, I use Moode Audio instead of Volumio because Volumio charges a monthly fee for providing the Qobuz interface.  Moode does not.  Also, Moode sounds great.  I suspect Volumio does also but that fee was a deal killer for me.  I'm already paying Qobuz.  Why should I pay another fee on top of that?

If you only want to stream from a streaming service like Qobuz you will need to add an app.  As I said, I use mConnect.  You can read about it here: http://www.conversdigital.com/eng/product/product04.php I use the free version, Player Lite.  That one has some limitations:  Portrait mode only, ads at the bottom of the screen, doesn't always remember the last renderer used, missing some file sorting capabilities.  None of those bother me enough to pay for the full version, which is $6.99.  With Moode audio running, you'd open the mConnect Player app on your iPad.  After doing the simple configuration you'd then have access to your Qobuz or Tidal account.  In this configuration you're using UPnP with Moode audio acting as the renderer.  That's why it has to be running to use mConnect.  I use Qobuz.  You don't have to install the Qobuz app on your iPad.  You're accessing Qobuz through the RPi 4 on the internet. You have access to all your playlists and favorites, and all the file resolutions supported by your account.  For me, it all just works and does so consistently and reliably.  I listen sometimes for hours at a time. The one thing I don't like is that Moode doesn't provide a browser.  It's not a big deal but there are times when I'd like to be able to play music on youtube which isn't available elsewhere.  I see no way to do that in Moode.

You don't have to be a computer expert to set up a Raspberry Pi 4.  The basic stuff is easy.  If you're seriously considering this solution you should start by learning the basics. Youtube is a great resource. I found it to be a lot of fun.  Good luck whatever you decide to do.

rollo

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Yes, it is my main system.  Until last year, I was all-vinyl and had focused on developing pretty high-end system.  For a couple reasons, I jumped into the digital world with a decent DAC and Qobuz.  My budget, well it's like this:  While I do plan to upgrade my DAC considerably, that will be a significant cost.  So my main goal is to achieve a very high value/SQ  with whatever streaming device I can find, new or used.  But at the same time, I'm not yet convinced that spending several grand is necessary - even when attempting to build a pretty high end system foundation.  So bottom line is I really don't know what price-point I'm entering into here.  Does that make sense?


   Yes it makes sense. It would be highly unlikely one can compare the sonic behavior of numerous Streamers. The DAC is still the key here. If digital is now your main Gig streaming as good as it is will not equal a dedicated transport/DAC combo or using a server playing ripped CDs.
   If you desire a streamer for casual and new music go for it. Have fun.

charles

whell

I have the BlueSound Node 2i.   Wanted to try it to stream AmazonHD.  I really like it.

That said, I know you want to get rid of the laptop, but when I'm playing back music that I'm really familiar with, I don't hear much difference, if any at all, between my laptop or the Node 2i.  I run the laptop and the Node 2i into the same DAC, a Benchmark DAC 2. 

Something you might try with the laptop, or if you have an old desktop sitting around not being used, is try something like Daphile: https://www.daphile.com/.  My playback never sounded better than when I ditched Windows 7.   Windows 10 is better once tweaked but still not quite up to Daphile's level IMHO.   Daphile has a plugin to support Qobuz.  Playback is controlled via any device that's connected to the same network.  I use a repurposed Android tablet and a free program called Squeezer.   

I'd suggest trying Daphile first before buying new gear.  Daphile is free to use and sounds like it could meet your needs.

newzooreview

It would be highly unlikely one can compare the sonic behavior of numerous Streamers.
charles

Here is a quantitative comparison of diffferent streamers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvu_doQfAI0

I use the Allo Digione Signature with an UpTone audio Ultracap 5v power supply on the clean side. The BNC coax output is exellent (the RCA coax output is ok but not as good as the BNC). I run RoPieee on the Allo Digione. RoPieee is a dedicated, minimal Roon enpoint, so Roon handles Qobuz and my music files. https://allo.com/sparky/digione-signature.html

The Allo Digione can feed any DAC you prefer via coax.


tinkerphile

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I think for an idea of what to expect from software, the first thing to do is to go to moodeaudio.org  Just read through the information regarding set up and use. Being unfamiliar with the RPi 4 it may seem confusing and complicated, but it isn't really.  They have a guide which takes you through the setup.  Once set up, you power up the Raspberry Pi 4.  In this configuration Moode audio is your operating system.  It's not just an application. On the iPad you access the RPi 4 by entering "moode.local" in your browser.  In my system it takes a few seconds to open. At that point you'll see the Moode audio interface.  Remember that in this configuration the iPad (or iPhone) is just the device you use to connect to the RPi 4 on the internet and work within Moode audio.  It has no effect on the sound at all and no additional apps are required. Keep in mind that my RPi4 is connected to the network via ethernet.  This will also work with wifi but I've never done it that way so I can't speak to how well it works.  By the way, I use Moode Audio instead of Volumio because Volumio charges a monthly fee for providing the Qobuz interface.  Moode does not.  Also, Moode sounds great.  I suspect Volumio does also but that fee was a deal killer for me.  I'm already paying Qobuz.  Why should I pay another fee on top of that?

If you only want to stream from a streaming service like Qobuz you will need to add an app.  As I said, I use mConnect.  You can read about it here: http://www.conversdigital.com/eng/product/product04.php I use the free version, Player Lite.  That one has some limitations:  Portrait mode only, ads at the bottom of the screen, doesn't always remember the last renderer used, missing some file sorting capabilities.  None of those bother me enough to pay for the full version, which is $6.99.  With Moode audio running, you'd open the mConnect Player app on your iPad.  After doing the simple configuration you'd then have access to your Qobuz or Tidal account.  In this configuration you're using UPnP with Moode audio acting as the renderer.  That's why it has to be running to use mConnect.  I use Qobuz.  You don't have to install the Qobuz app on your iPad.  You're accessing Qobuz through the RPi 4 on the internet. You have access to all your playlists and favorites, and all the file resolutions supported by your account.  For me, it all just works and does so consistently and reliably.  I listen sometimes for hours at a time. The one thing I don't like is that Moode doesn't provide a browser.  It's not a big deal but there are times when I'd like to be able to play music on youtube which isn't available elsewhere.  I see no way to do that in Moode.

You don't have to be a computer expert to set up a Raspberry Pi 4.  The basic stuff is easy.  If you're seriously considering this solution you should start by learning the basics. Youtube is a great resource. I found it to be a lot of fun.  Good luck whatever you decide to do.

I sure appreciate you taking the time to provide this great explanation - all of it is so very helpful indeed.  Things are beginning to click (no pun intended).  And thanks for the references for further information.  This being a hobby, for the cheap price of the RPi4, it is definitely worth the experiment, plus I get to learn as I go.  So thanks again.

tinkerphile

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I have the BlueSound Node 2i.   Wanted to try it to stream AmazonHD.  I really like it.

That said, I know you want to get rid of the laptop, but when I'm playing back music that I'm really familiar with, I don't hear much difference, if any at all, between my laptop or the Node 2i.  I run the laptop and the Node 2i into the same DAC, a Benchmark DAC 2. 

Something you might try with the laptop, or if you have an old desktop sitting around not being used, is try something like Daphile: https://www.daphile.com/.  My playback never sounded better than when I ditched Windows 7.   Windows 10 is better once tweaked but still not quite up to Daphile's level IMHO.   Daphile has a plugin to support Qobuz.  Playback is controlled via any device that's connected to the same network.  I use a repurposed Android tablet and a free program called Squeezer.   

I'd suggest trying Daphile first before buying new gear.  Daphile is free to use and sounds like it could meet your needs.

Daphile is new to me, so thanks much for that!  Pretty interesting.

reverberate

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After listening to Auralic, Lumin, Sonore and Sotm products all hovering in the 7k to 10k price range I ended up purchasing the Innuos Zenith and Phoenix combo. I have no need for the ripping function of the Zenith as I use it as a streamer only, but to my ears and in my system it sounded the least digital and the most musically satisfying of everything I heard. I use Qobuz as I also find it sounds marginally better than any other streaming service. For me, SQ comes first and I am willing to put up with less performance in other areas (ease of use, etc.) in order to end up with better sound because in the end that what this hobby is all about for me - having the best musical experience I can afford. BTW, whatever you end up purchasing (and among the reasonably priced streamers I think the BlueSound node is both the 'ease of use' and SQ winner by a mile) be sure to leave something in your budget for cables (LAN and interconnects) as they really make a big, big difference in the sound. Also, the Uptone Audio EtherRegen is a marvel at helping to the tame digital hash being delivered by your router and is highly recommended.