AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: poseidonsvoice on 20 Jun 2018, 11:07 pm
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Most of you probably know at this point that I am a big fan of constant directivity and controlled directivity designs, particularly waveguide based ones. In addition, I follow the data driven research on acoustics and loudspeaker design of Toole, Olive, Geddes, etc...
A few years back I was lucky enough to acquire a pair of the now discontinued GedLee NA12's which sport an Earl Geddes designed 18 inch waveguide with neodymium drivers from B&C comprising a 1 inch compression tweeter and 12 inch woofer. In the Geddes design metric it is assumed that you implement multiple subwoofers as his speakers are limited to 50-60Hz in the low frequency. The NA12 supersedes and is the replacement for the GedLee Abbey in that it uses a larger waveguide, neodymium drivers and also a newer, much more resonant free enclosure. Most of the enclosure in this design uses a highly compressed and expensive ($300/sheet) foam product called Renshape along with improved bracing and constrained layer dampening techniques involving MDF with Renshape composites. The front baffle is about 2 inches thick; rear baffle is 1.5 inches thick, sides top and bottom are 1 inch thick, and the H-brace is 0.75 inches, 1.5 inches and 2 inches thick respectively.
Anyway, as lovely as they sound, I wasn't too enamored with the looks of the speaker.
And you know what they say about idle minds and diy’ers...
But before I get to that, I must wholeheartedly thank 3 individuals who were extremely gracious with their time and expertise.
Steve E. (sledwards here on AC) helped with the wood working in designing the rear panel and his advice in finalizing this rebuild was tremendous. He was the sole reason I was introduced to these fine gentleman below:
Mike Miles, the proprietor and wizard at Auto Arts in Raleigh, NC, a high end refinishing auto body shop whose clients own vehicles as prized as Porsche 959’s, Maserati’s, Lamborghini's and so on. Mike lives, breathes, and sleeps with a respirator because he IS the paint master!
Zach Matthews, a patron of the arts, the consummate ARTISTE whose airbrushing talents (amongst other things) have garnered him great praise from numerous clients who have a vested interest in stylizing their vehicles in the Raleigh area and beyond.
Here are some before pics:
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12_1_zpsqlck5dsi.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12_1_zpsqlck5dsi.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12_zpseqzhdt4j.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12_zpseqzhdt4j.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12%20woofer_zpsrv4ba807.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12%20woofer_zpsrv4ba807.jpg.html)
What may not be obvious in the above photo is that the area encircling the woofer cone is a trim ring (made of Renshape) designed to hide the woofer holes and then veneered in 3M Di-Noc (a faux carbon fiber veneer). The finish is a satin gray.
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12%20side_zpsofumt4ya.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12%20side_zpsofumt4ya.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12%20back%20panel_zpsjvcpi0ps.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/Old%20Geddes%20NA12%20back%20panel_zpsjvcpi0ps.jpg.html)
The back panel similarly uses 3M Di-Noc.
And here are the after pics and details:
Back panel made with 3/4 inch MDF, cut, drilled, and primed:
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4765_zpsjxjbtf9p.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4765_zpsjxjbtf9p.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4766_zpsfzsyprf3.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4766_zpsfzsyprf3.jpg.html)
The idea here was to design a binding post plate using Front Panel Express CAD software, and then epoxy that plate directly into the panel.
The original back panel had pretty wide tolerances to ensure a ‘comfortable fit.’ I really didn’t want that. As such, Steve and I worked on a design that really had no more than a 1/8 inch (3+ mm) tolerance all around for a more snug fit. In addition, new holes were drilled that were slightly smaller than the diameter of the wood screws and a nice hybrid wood/washer approach was utilized to tightly adhere the CLD back panel to the H-Brace (2 screws near the center of the rear panel above).
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5066_zpsvpcpzw0d.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5066_zpsvpcpzw0d.jpg.html)
The binding post plate was designed on Front Panel Express and although the font looks like engraving, it is not! It is actually digital UV printing. I have always liked Cardas patented binding posts for their ease of use, and that is what you see here.
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4759_zpsv6dsw6la.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4759_zpsv6dsw6la.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4764_zps5kuunx0v.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_4764_zps5kuunx0v.jpg.html)
Pretty self explanatory with the main enclosures and some Isoacoustics stands in the paint booth!
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5042_zpsce1oegpd.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5042_zpsce1oegpd.jpg.html)
Trim ring after painting and clear coat. This is not wood! Zach is so talented, he makes it look like wood, knots and all!
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5043_zpsxilisyqp.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5043_zpsxilisyqp.jpg.html)
Here is where Zach shows some of his talents. I call it psychedelic yellow. It actually looks different at different angles.
Don’t worry, I did a trim ring in pure gloss black as well.
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5044_zpsvmnhe7pe.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5044_zpsvmnhe7pe.jpg.html)
That’s what I am talking about! Poseidon’s Voice with the trident of Poseidon, flames and all! Woohoo!
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5070_zpsre5zafba.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5070_zpsre5zafba.jpg.html)
Here is what the back panel looks like along with the center couplers that adhere to the H-brace inside the speaker enclosure. No Rez almost everywhere (none on the front baffle or close to the woofer cone). The crossover is in an external enclosure. Neotech silver gold wires and copper litz wiring, courtesy of Zenwave.
Don’t worry. The impedance/phase measurement didn’t change with the addition of the NoRez and wiring - I made sure!
The remaining pictures are pretty self explanatory:
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5433_zpsb0xxdvje.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5433_zpsb0xxdvje.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5430_zpsf8jeunt0.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5430_zpsf8jeunt0.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5431_zpsis1anmqm.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5431_zpsis1anmqm.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5432_zpsrr61gfxm.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5432_zpsrr61gfxm.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5428_zpsnimmbo4w.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5428_zpsnimmbo4w.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5427_zpsaeqshrut.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5427_zpsaeqshrut.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5426_zpsj0nb9kep.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5426_zpsj0nb9kep.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5435_zps5dopii5p.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5435_zps5dopii5p.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5429_zpssada6xcz.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5429_zpssada6xcz.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5437_zpsxh1kmmpv.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5437_zpsxh1kmmpv.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5438_zpso8ayzaau.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5438_zpso8ayzaau.jpg.html)
(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/nycavsr2000/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5434_zpsjtlgaha4.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/nycavsr2000/media/Geddes%20NA12/IMG_5434_zpsjtlgaha4.jpg.html)
That’s all folks! Tune in next time for the diy adventures of poseidonsvoice!
Best,
Anand.
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Wow, I can't imagine how long that took or how much it cost - but those look exceptionally nice! :thumb:
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Absolutely phenomenal!
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Absolutely phenomenal!
Wow, I can't imagine how long that took or how much it cost - but those look exceptionally nice! :thumb:
About 3 months and thanks!
Best,
Anand.
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Congrats! An adventure of passion for sure.
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Those are truly one of a kind; I cannot imagine you ever selling them.
I hope whoever eventually inherits them will appreciate them as much as you do.
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I love the rings.
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Excellent!
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Great job!
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Anand, what a great project! You did an amazing job and really made these into pieces of art.
Love the paint job and the wood looking rings. Your artwork looks great as well, very custom indeed!
Take Care,
Greg
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These came out amazing!
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Amazing work! Can you share pics of your external crossover box, how you wired it, how far away it mounts from the rear panel, etc?
gab
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Very Cool. Do they sound any different?
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Very, very nice, Anand.
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Amazing work! Can you share pics of your external crossover box, how you wired it, how far away it mounts from the rear panel, etc?
gab
The external box is actually behind a screen, a bit hard to access, but the cable connections are short, like 2 feet or less. When I did the repeat measurements, it was from the input of the external crossover box and they overlapped with the original crossover (phase and impedance). I didn't want to change anything electrically of course. This was done about 3 years ago - it's just bare MDF essentially. I need to finish it to this "new" standard that I have now!
Best,
Anand.
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Very Cool. Do they sound any different?
Don't know, but I strongly doubt it honestly since the actual dimensions of the enclosure didn't change, and neither did the impedance/phase measurements. They just look 'prettier.' The NoRez was there previously too, so basically, nothing much has changed acoustically or electrically. I might say that it 'sounds better' now but that is just a proud papa syndrome talking with the refinished cabinets!
Best,
Anand.
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Hi Anand stunning work as usual, their gorgeous. I was under the impression you had gone active?? But based on your comments you using a passive crossover network, do you mind sharing what components your using? Duelund, mundorf??
Also what electronics are you using these days??
Thanks and nice work...... :thumb: :thumb: :popcorn:
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Hi Anand stunning work as usual, their gorgeous. I was under the impression you had gone active?? But based on your comments you using a passive crossover network, do you mind sharing what components your using? Duelund, mundorf??
Also what electronics are you using these days??
Thanks and nice work...... :thumb: :thumb: :popcorn:
I have too many amp projects to count! I'm working on an F6 build as we speak. Of course, the excellent designs of Tom Christiansen (Neurochrome) are all here in my stable. I also have the famed 1200AS. That being said there are several pcb's downstairs that need to be populated...a quick perusal of diyaudio and you'll see all the usual suspects :wink:
I have the option of going active but I have not mustered the confidence and honestly my addiction to amplifier builds keeps me in the passive realm!
Regarding the passive components, you know the usual offenders: Jupiter Copper, Clarity MR, etc...nothing you fellas don't already know.
Best,
Anand.
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I have too many amp projects to count! I'm working on an F6 build as we speak. Of course, the excellent designs of Tom Christiansen (Neurochrome) are all here in my stable. I also have the famed 1200AS. That being said there are several pcb's downstairs that need to be populated...a quick perusal of diyaudio and you'll see all the usual suspects :wink:
I have the option of going active but I have not mustered the confidence and honestly my addiction to amplifier builds keeps me in the passive realm! You know the usual offenders: Jupiter Copper, Clarity MR, etc...nothing you fellas don't already know.
Best,
Anand.
Wouldn't too many amplifiers send you towards the active realm. It is for me. :)
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Wouldn't too many amplifiers send you towards the active realm. It is for me. :)
In all honesty, this is a hybrid system. Passive for the Geddes NA12 and active for the multiple subs that I have. I feel it is the best of both worlds while utilizing each design type/philosophy to the extreme. That being said, I have high regards for fully active systems like the JBL M2, Geddes NS15, etc...
Best,
Anand.
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Excellent work!! It's also very cool to be able to relate an acquaintance, with a moniker !
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Excellent work!! It's also very cool to be able to relate an acquaintance, with a moniker !
Nice to hear from you Scott! There is another Carolina GTG this Saturday at Richidoos if you can make it!
Thanks for the compliments.
Best,
Anand.
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Anand,
Your project turned out exceptionally beautiful! Congratulations! Thanks so much for sharing your story and images.
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Wow, kudos to you. You have taken DIY to a whole new level. Very impressive from planning, design and execution. Well played sir, well played. :thumb:
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Excellent Anand, you must have a lot of patience! :thumb:
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Dude, you might want to watch your back. No doubt all the other gods in the pantheon are jealous as Hades of you.
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Very, very nice! Enjoy!
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In case you didn't realize it, that Moksha GedLee is STUNNING! That is simply beautiful craftsmanship. And, the fact you invested all that in the GedLee speaks musical volumes about your commitment to the GedLee sound.
Thank you for sharing the experience. I hope to hear it one day.
Now, back to my transistor radio.
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Thank you all for the kind words of praise.
Of note, Moksha is Sanskrit for emancipation from the cycle of birth/death/rebirth or reaching “enlightenment.”
Best,
Anand.
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Sorry for the late arrival, but I missed this thread first time around. Thread deserves a bump anyway!!
Wow, great work, Anand!
And it's great to know there are craftsmen like that in our area. :thumb:
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I thought I had commented on these first go around but see I am wrong. Thanks for reviving Rich.
Anand: Those are gorgeous. Are the rings such that you can change easily? If so you can do a ring of the month
thing and look at them as new each time. Very cool.
Don
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Don,
Thanks. Yes, you can change the rings on the fly. They pop in/out. In fact, I have the black ring back at the shop to add a couple blue highlights or flames. We’ll see how it turns out.
Thanks again for the words of praise...mighty encouraging :thumb:
(https://i.imgur.com/D9YpiKk.jpg)
Best,
Anand.
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An update to this thread. I rebuilt my (4) Gedlee Harper speakers that I use for surround duty as well. They are similar in design to the NA12 but have a smaller 8 inch diameter oblate spheroidal waveguide along with an 8 inch midwoofer from B&C in a sealed enclosure. The back panel is a MDF/baltic birch composite along with a Cardas CPBP binding post/plate setup. A highly efficient monitor in its own right at 93 dB with an impedance nadir of about 5.5 ohms. Easily driven by nearly any amplifier. In fact, on Tom Christiansen's intro thread, I posted pictures of my Parallel 486 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163421.msg1743327#msg1743327) which is a 4 channel, 120w/4 ohm amplifier design for these speakers. In actual use they only ever reach a max of 5-10 watts as the listening positions are 8 feet (2.4 meters) away. The use of Isoacoustics stands helps in tilting the speakers down towards the main listening area as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/40KKjHmh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7EBc2dxh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MTInsog.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mGsmwyJ.jpg)
Best,
Anand.
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Beautiful!!
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That’s very nice work on the Gedlees, and the Parallel 486 as well. Handsome indeed. Always wanted to try a
four Gedlee surround set-up.
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The NS-15 can still be made as a special request per website.
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Pics in room:
(https://i.imgur.com/JjnO3pp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ICr6Yvb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UsuVwxC.jpg)
Best,
Anand.
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Awesome seeing them in situ.
Love the stands, and the toys on top. :thumb:
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I might just be able to audition these, very soon !
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Most excellent, sir! Not that'd I'd expect any less! :thumb:
You need a stylish rack on the wall to display the alternate trim rings! :)
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That's just beautiful.
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Back in my day we would say F'n A baby. Absolutely beautiful work.
charles
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Anand,
Beautiful. :thumb:
I see you have the Isoacoustics stands under all the speakers. Do you have them under the subs also?
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I have no experience with these speakers. What is the driver compliment? What is behind the foam grills on top? Great finish work.
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The B&C DE500 compression driver is located behind the reticulated foam installed within the waveguide.
http://www.gedlee.com/Loudspeakers/NA12.aspx
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Thank you. Maybe some day I will get to hear these in a system.
The B&C DE500 compression driver is located behind the reticulated foam installed within the waveguide.
http://www.gedlee.com/Loudspeakers/NA12.aspx
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Thanks everybody!
Yes, every speaker in my system has an Isoacoustics stand under them.
Currently the system is in heavy use by the family. We have 14 people in the house, lots of movie watching going on!
Hopefully my schedule lightens up after mid August.
Best,
Anand.
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Hi. Anand has directed me to this thread. If anyone looks for these superb speakers there is a pair of my Geddes Abbey 12c on ebay.
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Anand,
Long time, I only drop into this forum every once in a blue moon, but I got to say this is spectacular! Attention to detail is through the roof and I can imagine how it sounds! Even the decor is befitting such a setup.
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Hi. Anand has directed me to this thread. If anyone looks for these superb speakers there is a pair of my Geddes Abbey 12c on ebay.
You got a link you can share? Search on eBay yields nothing on my iPad
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Anand,
Long time, I only drop into this forum every once in a blue moon, but I got to say this is spectacular! Attention to detail is through the roof and I can imagine how it sounds! Even the decor is befitting such a setup.
Thanks Josh, especially coming from you. I know you are perched up in Canada but if you ever visit the Carolinas give me a shout!
Hi. Anand has directed me to this thread. If anyone looks for these superb speakers there is a pair of my Geddes Abbey 12c on ebay.
Although my speakers are indeed different (larger waveguide, different drivers) and measure better, I will say there is a house sound to Geddes’ OSWG’s and as such there will be similarities.
Best,
Anand.
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That's just beautiful.
I agree 100% and that’s the first thing I thought when seeing Anand’s photos!