What components should be on power conditioner?

jermmd · « **on:** 29 Sep 2005, 04:18 pm »

What exactly does a power conditioner do and what components should definitely be connected to it?
Are certain components (like the amp) better off plugged directly into the wall? How about video?
Will a TV/projector benefit from power conditioning?
Does the conditioner offer any protection from surge and from ground loops? Is it better to plug the conditioner into a dedicated 20A outlet or is a normal outlet OK?

I have the BPT BP-3.5 signature. My questions are mostly in regards to this unit if it makes a difference. Maybe these questions should be in the starting block?

Thanks,

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 05:04 pm »

low power consuming devices, such as sources CDP, DAC, turntables, tuner etc....

Some people might consider preamps low consumption, but in my case, I plug mines into the wall.

The same with all sort of amplification, all straight to the wall.

BTW, I also have a BPT, cannot remember if it was the 2.5 or 3.5.

Paul

PS: Be forwarned that some devices do not function when they are connected, both together in the floating or unfloating outlets. That happened to me with my Shigaraki transport and Shigaraki DAC. When I plugged the DAC power to different, opposite socket, it worked swell.

JoshK · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 05:08 pm »

I take a stab at answering some of these questions. Of course, there is probably no universal answer, and many will disagree but here are the PC answers.

ok, looks like Paul answered already. Definitely your source and I would plug the preamp as well, but no in general to the amp.

A BPT won't do anything for ground loops in general.

hmen · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 05:20 pm »

It's not a good idea to plug any of your components directly into the wall. At the very least you should have it plugged into surge protector. If one device in a system isn't protected and there's a power spike it could blow out everything connected to it. Most power conditioners offer surge protection but you should make before you buy one.

ctviggen · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 05:23 pm »

Hey Joe,

I've heard that amps should not be plugged into most power conditioners. I plugged both my amps into an outlet. My power conditioner (a Monster) supposedly has surge protection, though I've also added a whole house surge protector. As for whether this would improve TV picture, I don't know. I have my TV plugged into the power conditioner, but can't honestly say there's a difference, though I haven't done any tests either.

I've also ran a 20 amp circuit for my stuff and put in two cryogenically treated outlets (personally, I couldn't tell the difference between these and $1 outlets from Home Cheapo, but maybe you could). I also plan on trying the capacitor from hot to neutral trick (see VH audio website).

I use my power conditioner mainly to be able to plug enough stuff in. I have three amplifiers (9 channels of amplification), a preamp, a TV, an active crossover, a cable box, Replay TV box, and a transport. That's too much to plug in without some type of extra device.

I also have a third sub that is not connected to my dedicated outlet and that is causing hum.

ctviggen · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 05:29 pm »

One thing I'm going to do is use something like this:

http://www.smarthome.com/1626-10.HTML

for my appliances. When my refrigerator in my HT room turns off, it generates enough of a spike that my flourescent light near my computer will flash on!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 05:45 pm »

Everything I use - CD player, DAC outboard power supply, JVC hybrid digi receiver (and/or preamp and TEAC A/L700P tripath amp) is plugged into a BP-2 (with upgraded litz power cord, cryo'ed silver wire, ers, damping, hi frequency filter) and they all benefit.

I have tried running the receiver and or amp into the wall.....MUCH listening pleasure was lost.

I had an AudioSource Amp3, 150w stereo Class AB amp here while owning the BPT...it sounded better plugged right into the upgrades PS Audio outlet. It was noticable huffing for air - dynamics were muted while hooked up to BPT.

My rediculously simple and cheap video (picture) set-up benefitted most from a $149.00 UPS/auto voltage regulator from Best Buy....but the sound was made a bit worse by it. The addition of a Monster Cable PowerBar strip, after the UPS/voltage regulator offered the best combination of picture and sound quality.

I've never tried the BPT with the video system (I hesistate to even call my hunk o' shit video ensemble a 'system'). Nonetheless, there ya' go.

jermmd · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 06:34 pm »

Thanks guys,
It looks like the consensus is that my main amp can be plugged directly into the 20 amp outlet (maybe with a surge protector in front of it). The rest of my equipment-including projector and possibly the less powerful surround amp can be plugged into the conditioner and then into a regular 15 amp outlet. This might work better for me because I'd like to hide my equipment in a corner or closet away from the front of the room. I will still need to plug my Squeezebox2, my 2-channel preamp and my sub amp near the front of the room. Maybe I'll need another conditioner? Anyone selling there's for cheap?

JohnnyLightOn · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 07:41 pm »

I ran my JVC digital receiver through a PowerVar 11 amp isolation transformer and it worked great. But when I got an Onix SP3 tube integrated amp, the PowerVar totally killed the sound. I thought it was a mediocre amp until I plugged it straight into the wall - then it started sounding magical.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 07:49 pm »

Soooo, can we deduce that Class A/AB and the like (traditional SS and tube amps) generally work best from wall?...and new crop of digi or quasi-digi amps generally benefit from conditioning/filtration of some sort.

That's been my (limited) experience, in any case.

Glen B · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 08:11 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

Thanks guys,
It looks like the consensus is that my main amp can be plugged directly into the 20 amp outlet (maybe with a surge protector in front of it). The rest of my equipment-including projector and possibly the less powerful surround amp can be plugged into the conditioner and then into a regular 15 amp outlet. This might work better for me because I'd like to hide my equipment in a corner or closet away from the front of the room. I will still need to plug my Squeezebox2, my 2-channel preamp and my ...

Instead of relying solely on the opinions and experiences of others, why not try plugging all of your components -- main amp included -- into the BPT 3.5 and see how that works out. You won't know for sure unless you try it. If you end up not liking how it works, fine. You already have the conditioner so it is costing you nothing extra.

YOUR ears are the best judge of what is right for you.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 08:31 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

A BPT won't do anything for ground loops in general.

Josh, I'm curious why you say this. I've always thought that elimination of ground loops and lowering of the noise floor were the two reasons to use a power conditioner based on a balanced isolation transformer.

Of course, the entire system must be plugged into the unit for the benefit to be there, and cheater plugs and cords with a floating ground must be avoided. The device will put out +60 and -60v on its two hot lines, around the system ground, which is the summed total of each individual ground.

I may have been one of the first audiophiles to use this type of device. There were serious ground loop problems with my Apogee DAX3 crossover. I tried a bunch of power conditioners at the time (1990s), none of which made much of a difference. Then I decided to go with a pro unit, the Furman IT-1220, which was recommended by a musician friend of mine. That was the last time the ground loop was heard. I described my findings to Steve Rochlin who later on reviewed the unit highly and it remained in both of our systems for many years. Current audiophile models from BPT, Equi=Tech, Exactpower (SP series), and Furman (IT Reference) do basically the same thing in a prettier chassis with fancier outlets and other audiophile-approved tweaks.

The PS Audio regenerators output balanced power also, but work differently using an amplifier to created the +60 and -60v lines. I've had a P1000 and loved it. Too bad I had two units spontaneously fail (all under warranty, thankfully) and one unit that ran so hot that even when idling it was a fire/burn hazard. When the third unit arrived from the factory, it went on Audiogon without the box being opened. Hopefully the buyer had better luck with it than me.

Currently I am without balanced power in my system, having switched to the RSA Haley and Duke combo. Ground loops are not a problem with my current setup, and voltage stabilization and filtering seem to benefit the digital gear the most. But the next conditioner I try willl be the Exactpower EP20A and SP15x4 combo -- which may offer the benefits of voltage stabilization and balanced power/isolation in a cool running, reliable design.

JoshK · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 08:43 pm »

I could be wrong about the ground loops issue, but I was under the impression that just because your power was balanced it didn't preclude there being a ground loop in the signal grounds. To tell you the truth, grounding is one of those things that is a bit puzzling even still.

I know the usual explanation for ground loops is when you have two components both having their signal ground tied to the power ground on the chassis and they use single ended ICs were the ground or return on the ICs is attached at both terminations to the chassis. Thus the shield (or return) of the IC conducts any difference in voltage on the ground between the two chassis, which ususally is always some. The resistance of the shield then creates the electrical hum in the signal path.

I guess I am not sure why balanced power would necessarily equal out grounds between the two chassis any more than regular power would.

jermmd · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 10:29 pm »

Quote from: Glen B

Instead of relying solely on the opinions and experiences of others, why not try plugging all of your components -- main amp included -- into the BPT 3.5 and see how that works out. You won't know for sure unless you try it. If you end up not liking how it works, fine. You already have the conditioner so it is costing you nothing extra. YOUR ears are the best judge of what is right for you.

Good advice and I will be doing this with my amp. I just wanted to hear what other people thought because I am planning on seperating various components within my system. I have to decide on which side of the room the conditioner should go on. Should I use it with my 2 channel system (main amp, squeezebox, preamp) or should I use it with the processor/projector/DVD player/HTPC?

mca · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 10:45 pm »

I have my entire system including my Butler 5150 amp running through my Powervar ABC-1200-11. I did a lot of listening with the amp plugged into both the wall and the conditioner and could not notice any loss in dynamics.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Sep 2005, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

How about video?
Will a TV/projector benefit from power conditioning?

There's no question IMHO that power conditioning helps TVs (have tried it on direct view TVs and plasmas...have not tried it on a projector)....

Tweaker · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Sep 2005, 12:09 am »

I have everything in the audio chain plugged into Brick Wall surge filters. The sound is much improved as a result with absolutely no restriction in dynamics from having my amps plugged into them. (The amps are 130/channel Van Alstine Omegastars). The Brick Walls are designed specifically for high current devices and they work as advertised.

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Sep 2005, 02:36 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC

Quote from: jermmd
How about video?
Will a TV/projector benefit from power conditioning?

There's no question IMHO that power conditioning helps TVs (have tried it on direct view TVs and plasmas...have not tried it on a projector)....

My Pioneer SD-533HD5 RPTV was showing a little video noise until I plugged it into my Monster HTS-2500.

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Sep 2005, 03:08 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

Thanks guys,
It looks like the consensus is that my main amp can be plugged directly into the 20 amp outlet (maybe with a surge protector in front of it). The rest of my equipment-including projector and possibly the less powerful surround amp can be plugged into the conditioner and then into a regular 15 amp outlet. This might work better for me because I'd like to hide my equipment in a corner or closet away from the front of the room. I will still need to plug my Squeezebox2, my 2-channel preamp and my ...

Joe,

My DNA-500 sounds better plugged into the RSA Duke vs. directly into a dedicated 20 amp line.

Since we have the same amp, thought I would throw that into the mix.

If you go battery powered on the SB2 that would be one less thing to worry about.

Just my usual two cents.

George

zybar · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Sep 2005, 04:35 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

Thanks guys,
It looks like the consensus is that my main amp can be plugged directly into the 20 amp outlet (maybe with a surge protector in front of it). The rest of my equipment-including projector and possibly the less powerful surround amp can be plugged into the conditioner and then into a regular 15 amp outlet. This might work better for me because I'd like to hide my equipment in a corner or closet away from the front of the room. I will still need to plug my Squeezebox2, my 2-channel preamp and my ...

Joe,

My DNA-500 sounds better plugged into the RSA Duke vs. directly into a dedicated 20 amp line.

Since we have the same amp, thought I would throw that into the mix.

If you go battery powered on the SB2 that would be one less thing to worry about.

Just my usual two cents.

George