Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp

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ScottMayo

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Put the unicorns out of business
« Reply #20 on: 15 Nov 2004, 08:12 pm »
Quote from: James Tanner
Would you like to see a speaker cable manufactured by Bryston?
james


Sure, as long as you solemnly promise not to go down the witchcraft-and-smoke route. Sell a decently pure copper with gold connectors and low inductance for a few bucks a foot, and I think you'll have any number of sales. Especiallhy if you discount them to amp owners. *hint*

I've often wondered why some well respected amp manufacturer didn't step up and return sanity to the cable and interconnect market. These places charging $50/foot on unobtanium/iridium cables, woven under a full moon by unicorns with time aligned sexual fantasies, and magically grafted to solid-diamond connectors by the audio frequency fairies (ok, I exaggerate, but not much), kind of make this industry look foolish. I think a company like Bryston could do a good job of leading the way back to common sense - and could do A/B tests that show that common sense isn't just economic sense, but sonic sense.

Clean copper at 3.50$/ft, backed by Bryston. Who *wouldn't* buy it? :-)

James Tanner

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #21 on: 15 Nov 2004, 09:25 pm »
HI Scott,

Thanks for the input.

james

thomaspf

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #22 on: 16 Nov 2004, 04:16 am »
sometimes reality tops even the wildest imagination.

ScottMayo, I send your mail to a couple of colleagues for entertainment and here is what I go back.

http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/quantum/quantum.html

Cheers

    Thomas

JarrettH

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #23 on: 20 Nov 2004, 03:23 am »
LOL Scott :lol:

Nomoretweaks

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #24 on: 29 Nov 2004, 12:27 pm »
bearing in mind that the vast majority of Bryston owners believe in down to earth Bryston philosophy (as opposed to esoteric approach - if you'd read the Esoterical bible you'd see "Bryston sucks" in smallprint on every page) they would happily buy Bryston cables for a sensible price IMHO rather than looking for those iridium/immodium crio treated "wonders" which actually may not match Bryston at all. One good example is Naim: Naim owners, even those with top systems firmly prefer cheap Naim speakers cable.  
    And btw I tried to buy a Bryston XLR interconnect here in London, but even major Bryston dealers do not have it in stock or even bother to order from Canada.  That's incredible. I went for Cardas Cross instead and I'm happy with it. Something tells me I would be as happy with a Bryston one, only with some spare change in my pocket.

BachToRock

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #25 on: 21 Dec 2004, 01:09 pm »
After much experimentation I have also chosen KIMBER 8TC as the cable of choice... 4TC for very short runs of smaller speakers.
It is like the Bryston equipment in that it seems to sound the most "natural" in the sense that it posseses the least sound of it's own!

teaandcake

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Speaker cable for use with Bryston/PMC
« Reply #26 on: 13 Jan 2005, 12:42 pm »
I notice a few people have recommended Kimbers 8TC, I used this for a while and found the bass and imaging of my system to be superb. However the range from the mid bass to the lower mids was always a bit to muddy for my liking, causing complex music to come across as a poorly defined smeared mess. Also the top end gets slightly rolled of with high capacitance cables such as Kimbers.

Consequently I moved up to the Select Ks3033 which was a vast improvement, then after a bit of saving I moved up to the Ks3035 which again gave considerable improvements in seperation, definition and tonallity.

After a short period of audio happiness I noticed that while my system had all the right audio ingredients i.e. deep controlled bass, smooth and insightful midrange, decent imaging etc it seemed that the cables made the system sound so spacious that it unravelled the music to a point where it the sound was no longer coherent and musical.

I recently read a review in Hi Fi + which claimed the Chord Co Signature cables performance was only a little shy of the Valhalla's at a third of the price so I borrowed some interconnects and speaker cable, this maintained all of the benefits of the ks3035, while adding a tonal richness or inner detail that the Kimbers did not possess. The real bonus is that all this extra musical information is locked in the correct time, place and proportion. Whatever the reason my system with the Chord Signatures in place just sounds so coherent and right. I have since bought the cables and have enjoyed many hours of listening to music rather than my system.

Not sure how well the Chord Co markets its products in the US, further info can be found at:

http://www.chord.co.uk/

I have also noticed that the Bryston amps sound better when run in single ended mode. When using balanced cables my system always sounds as if the sound has been 'sat on' or is 'shut in' when compared with single ended connection.

I believe that while the BP25 accepts balanced connections the signal is unbalanced as soon as it enters the pre-amp and a balanced signal is re-generated at the output stage, effectively meaning the design is not balanced. I stand to correction on this last point.

System:

Arcam FMJ DVD player
Chord dac64
Bryston BP25
Bryston 4B-SST
PMC OB1

James Tanner

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #27 on: 13 Jan 2005, 01:00 pm »
Hi teaandcake.

I find this cable issue difficut to address because there seems to be so many companies with the answers and so may different systems out there with conflicting reports.

I would like to make two points though and then I will shut up.

1. Capaciatnce does not roll off the top end -- a weaved cable like the Kimber has more capacitance than a twin lead or a coax but the advantage of weaving is very low "self-inductance". It is HIGH self-inductance that causes the frequency response to roll-off.  Capacitance can create havoc with some amplifiers output stages and cause the amps protection circuits to cut in and out or at worst ossilate and eventually blow up. Capacitance is not an issue with any Bryston amp by the way.

2. Please read my following newsletters - there is a total misunderstanding out there about balanced circuits and how they work.

http://www.bryston.ca/newsletters/11_files/vol1is1.html
http://www.bryston.ca/newsletters/83_files/vol8is3.html

james

teaandcake

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #28 on: 13 Jan 2005, 06:42 pm »
Hi James

Thanks for replying, I agree when you say that the cable issue is difficult to address. Maybe this is because the cable and electronics/speakers interact. Therefore some cables will have a synergy with a given system and some may not. Perhaps in my previous post I should have stated that I do not necessarily think the Chord is a better cable than the Kimber its just that I prefer it with my Bryston/PMC combination.

Excuse my ignorance with regards capacitive speaker cables. I am a Mechanical Design Engineer not Electrical, it was my understanding that the higher frequencies around 20 khz contain a far smaller amount of energy than the lower frequencies, therefore a cable with a high capacitance has the ability to store a disproportionate amount of high frequency energy in relation to low frequency energy, thus causing 'treble roll off' this phenomena is well documented on various websites. However I stand to correction on this matter, I have contacted Chord and Nordost asking for their opinions.

With regards the unbalanced option on your amps I can only trust my ears, and they tell me that unbalanced sounds more natural and less 'shut in' than the balanced option. Interestingly the data sheet supplied with my BP25 shows a signal to noise ratio of -103 db balanced and -106 db unbalanced. I have read the hyperlinked article and understand the main need for balanced signals is to minimise noise pickup in long cable runs, therefore the fact that the circuitry within the BP25 is not balanced should have little effect. The thing with a lot of home hifi systems is that all of the equipment is placed on a common rack where the longest cable lengths are only about 1m.

As I have your attention James can you tell me, power supplies aside if the new BP26 is evolution (improved) of the BP25, or is it the same pre-amp with new cosmetics. If so is it possible to retro fit the new facia to the BP25?

Don't take my opinions on balanced/unbalanced sound of your amps the wrong way, love the Bryston products probably the last thing I would change in my system.

Thanks for your time.

Pete

James Tanner

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #29 on: 13 Jan 2005, 06:51 pm »
Hi Pete,

The BP26 preamp is the same as the BP25 with new cosmetics. The MPS-2 power supply is of course much different.
We have not decided yet on your question of being able to do retro-fits on the front panel of the BP25. We have been thinking of offering the reto if the customer upgrades to the MPS-2. That way all preamps with the new look would in fact be BP26 units.

james

mashthepedal

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #30 on: 14 Jan 2005, 01:29 am »
I use MIT terminator 2 cables.  The 9B SST has great posts for spade connectors.

Crimson

Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #31 on: 14 Jan 2005, 01:34 am »
Kimber 8TC for the lows and Cardas Hexlink 5C for the mids/highs.

Allezvite

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« Reply #32 on: 14 Feb 2005, 08:32 pm »
This is currently the third most viewed thread in the Bryston/PMC forum!  Kimber 8TC is being mentioned a lot, anybody else?

Clemo

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #33 on: 15 Feb 2005, 12:44 am »
I think of 8TC as the Bryston of Speaker Cables. No nonsense. High quality build. Based on sound engineering principles. They get out of the way of the music and lend themselves nicely to the DIY'ers when it comes to termination. (if you don't mind stripping 160 wires in a 5.1 set-up  :o )
I've been using them with my 3B and 5B for 7 years with excellent results. I've borrowed other cables to try but I haven't found anything that would make me change.

nicolasb

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #34 on: 15 Feb 2005, 10:14 am »
I'm always sceptical about AV cables in general and particularly about speaker cables. Cables that are (effectively) putting a significant capacitance in parallel with the speaker could have the effect of muting the treble, but I think you'd have to try quite hard to find a cable with enough capacitance to actually make an audible difference.

In my experience there are only three significant factors with speaker cables:

1) Don't ever coil them. If they're too long, then concertina them.

2) It's good to keep them well away from mains cables and from each other to avoid interference. If you need cables to cross over each other, make them cross over at right angles, don't lay them in parallel.

3) Far and away the most important issue is that, at any frequency, the impedance of the cable must be a small fraction of the impedance of the speaker. So, for example, my Nautilus 803 speakers are nominally 8 ohms, but can go as low as 3 ohms at certain frequencies. I like to keep my cables to below 5% of speaker impedance, so the total impedance of the wire has to be <0.15 ohms (and I usually aim for <0.1 ohms for safety). With speaker cables it's usually only the resistance that makes a significant contribution to impedance, so if the cable has a resistance of <0.1 ohms then it's going to be fine for 803s.

The only time I've ever heard speaker cable make a difference to the sound of a speaker is if the resistance is too high. What happens then is that the percentage of the amplifier output that is expended in the speaker rather than dissipated in the cable can vary detectably with frequency, which affects the speaker's overall frequency response.

Two (verified) anecdotes illustrate the point nicely. In the first a cable-sceptic invited an audience who believed in the virtue of expensive cables to come to a demo. He played a piece of music using cheap-looking speaker cables. Then he made a big show of switching the cables over to these huge, expensive looking things, almost an inch thick, and played the music again. Everyone in the audience said things like "oh, that's so much better, oh please tell me you can hear the difference there, it's night and day!"

It turned out that actually both sets of cables were dummies, and that the wires actually connecting the speakers to the amp were identical in both cases and hadn't been touched. (There are, of course, a lot of reasons why a system might sound better as a result of cables being changed that have nothing at all to do with the "quality" of the cable - placebo effect is just one. Other possibilities include a new cable not suffering from corrosion at the contacts while an old one does.)

The other story involves an audio exhibition a couple of years ago, where a British speaker manufacturer named Quad wanted to show off some of their new high-end speakers. To demonstrate them they hired a guy who was a sound engineer: his job was mixing music tracks to produce the final recording. He was very well-known, and well respected: had won a number of the most prestigious awards in the music industry, so he was about as "golden-eared" as it's possible to get.

One journalist noticed, during the demo, that the speaker cables looked a bit unusual - they were a bright orange colour. So he asked about them, and it turned out that they were actually mains extension leads of the type normally sold for use with Black & Decker hedge trimmers. So, out of all the possible types of speaker cable this supremely talented sound engineer could have chosen, he'd actually chosen mains flex - because, in his opinion, that sounded as good as anything else does.

musicology

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #35 on: 15 Feb 2005, 01:27 pm »
Im currently using Van Den Hul CS122 (Teatrak) and have been for around 7 or 8 yrs, maybe longer.

In that time I have also tried Transparent Audio, Nordost and Chord but have not found any worthwhile sonic differences over the VDH.    
Different doesnt always mean better.

As for interconnects, well....

Phoenix

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #36 on: 15 Feb 2005, 06:32 pm »
First Post!! :)

I'm using the Alpha-Core: Goertz MI 1 Center Stage. (AMP: B60)

I was really happy with my old cables (T+A) which weren't expensive. I always thought speaker cables aren't THAT important...

My dealer gave me the M1 on trial - it was remarkable - everything improved substantially!!!!  While there may be no big difference between "normal" and "good" cables - there is definitely one between "bad" and "good" ones....

Today I wonder how I could have been listening to my old cables for all those years.....

It was one of those investments, you'll never regret.

Andi


PS: Bryston's customer service rules!!! Even here in Germany!!!

Allezvite

Welcome
« Reply #37 on: 17 Feb 2005, 04:05 am »
Welcome to the Circle. and thanks for you input.

jselectro

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Re: Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston
« Reply #38 on: 18 Feb 2005, 04:05 am »
Monster Cable High Definition with Dayton Audio gold Banana plugs. High quality, low price.

miked510

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Survey - What Speaker Cable do you use with your Bryston amp
« Reply #39 on: 21 Mar 2005, 10:03 pm »
My ICs are 5 meter Nordost Blue Heaven XLR, and speaker cables are 3 meter Nordost Red Dawn v.ll Bi-wire.

I'm happy with them, though I do have some XLO VDO, AQ CV-4 dual run, and an older AQ Midnight I've stopped using allof them almost 3 years ago.