[Nick77]

So does that mean that single ended inputs are equally as good as balanced, or that balanced inputs are no better than single ended?

Just trying to understand, not being picky or difficult. Let's try these options.

- too close to call, equally as good
- the difference is noticeable but not by much
- there's a significant difference
- no brainer
- other (your choice of words)

I appreciate your opinion, and for sharing your experience.

Having owned both I also give the nod to the Super. I would have to say its between noticable and significant.
In my system the Super has much better control, a little better image and transparency.

[roymail]

Thanks, guys... I really appreciate hearing from you since you all have both amp boards, IR and Super D.

Ray, sorry to be confusing.  My wife says I'm that way most of the time.  I found your observations helpful.

Steve, thanks for sharing your experience as well.  I hear you saying that the Super D has depth of soundstage that the IR does not have.  However, the width of soundstage should extend well beyond the speakers with either amp, right?

Keith, about the additional control, that could be difference between having an amp with 60 wpc and 125 wpc, especially driving those wonderful speakers you have.

In Tom's description of the Super D amp, the only difference between the two amps except the balanced input stage, different heat sink, molex connectors and adjustable gain is the following statement which supports what you all are saying...

"Our Super D Series amps provide more life-like imaging and sound stage."

Both are obviously very good performing amps.  At the current prices, one can't go wrong either way, just depends on your needs.  Thanks for all your input.

[guest1632]

Thanks, guys... I really appreciate hearing from you since you all have both amp boards, IR and Super D.

Ray, sorry to be confusing.  My wife says I'm that way most of the time.  I found your observations helpful.

Steve, thanks for sharing your experience as well.  I hear you saying that the Super D has depth of soundstage that the IR does not have.  However, the width of soundstage should extend well beyond the speakers with either amp, right?

Keith, about the additional control, that could be difference between having an amp with 60 wpc and 125 wpc, especially driving those wonderful speakers you have.

In Tom's description of the Super D amp, the only difference between the two amps except the balanced input stage, different heat sink, molex connectors and adjustable gain is the following statement which supports what you all are saying...

"Our Super D Series amps provide more life-like imaging and sound stage."

Both are obviously very good performing amps.  At the current prices, one can't go wrong either way, just depends on your needs.  Thanks for all your input.

Ok, here is what I'm hearing about these two amps, the "IR" and the "super D." The standard IR amp seems to lack depth of image. The "Super D" has that in spades, but also seems to be a bit more detailed. That is what I read from these pages. So for a full frequency response amp to use on my main system, I'd just be done with it and get the super D amp. You get the whole kit Minus case, RCA connectors, and switches fuse(s), and binding posts for $335, and depending on the casework involved, you could probably come out of this alive for about $450 to say $600. And it would do pretty well against what is out there on a commercial level. Now, there's the power supply which from what I read here from Keith, looks like that nees to be changed to somewheres between 40 MF to 60 MF for the value of the caps. Currently, it is about 28 MF. This is for both sides combined. I'd also upgrade to a higher current bridge rectifier. The reason for that is to handle the additional surge of the larger value caps.  With those two mods, it would definitely be closer to the $600 range. Now, is this the last word in amplification you ask? Probably not, but you'd probably have to go a long way and spend much more bucks to get something a whole lot better. At least, that is what I am surmising from reading these pages.

 Someone complained in previous pages back about hearing some subtle distortion. I suggest clean up that supply some more. Anyway, enough for the editorializing.

Ray Bronk

[wushuliu]

I say unless it's money that can easily be parted or you need balanced, stick w/ the regular IR amps and use the cost difference on other upgrades. We spent 50 pages extolling the basic IR amps for a reason. Anyways, before long Tom will have Super Duper class d amps I'm sure or other improved product...

[Nick77]

I think if your looking for the absolute best bang for the buck, you nailed it. 

I only have about $400 into my Super with upgraded Panasonic caps in diy wood case. I am yet to swap out the bridge, i will report back on this one as it looks a little intimadating. The stock one isnt giving me any issues.

Edit: Dont forget Tom is giving 5% discount to AC.

[guest1632]

I say unless it's money that can easily be parted or you need balanced, stick w/ the regular IR amps and use the cost difference on other upgrades. We spent 50 pages extolling the basic IR amps for a reason. Anyways, before long Tom will have Super Duper class d amps I'm sure or other improved product...

Hi, Well, my summarization was given for those who were thinking about getting one of these amps. If the difference is fairly audible, especially if you are aware of imaging properties, then the SDS amp is for you. If you can't hear imaging, then get the less expensive CDA version. If Tom does indeed comes out with a super duper amp, well, lol, that's progress.

i'd probably get the SDS kit, and a case from Parmetal for about $80, and do all the metal drilling myself. I'll use some 16 gauge speaker wire for the power cord, get the 6A fuse? and the power switch I have as well as the fuse holder. I'll get some insolated binding posts for the speaker output. So just about $450 bucks, and I'm done. I can still use my TVC, or get the preamp from Aricaudio systems for about $400. Or I could get this other preamp that I see on Audiogon all the time for $330. That should work out fine.

How's that for cheap and cheerful? heheh

Ray

[guest1632]

I think if your looking for the absolute best bang for the buck, you nailed it. 

I only have about $400 into my Super with upgraded Panasonic caps in diy wood case. I am yet to swap out the bridge, i will report back on this one as it looks a little intimadating. The stock one isnt giving me any issues.

Hi, Well, if the bridge is holding up when you start/turn on  the amp, then I'd leave it alone. It's just a thought. I'd probably fill out those other two positions with two more 10 UF and see what happens. Maybe nothing will. But then you know. Something is bound to be better with those caps. Maybe, slightly better imaging, a more relaxed presentation. Maybe a bit mor micro detail.

Ray

[wushuliu]

If you can't hear imaging, then get the less expensive CDA version.

To be clear though, the imaging with the regular IR is great. It's not like it's lacking.

[hasekisgod]

well it all depends on the pre amp your using too. if you have a good tube pre or something like it the basic one will be great. if yur using the outs of yur surround receiver well the super might be the way to go i guess or im I wrong?

[jtwrace]

So does that mean that single ended inputs are equally as good as balanced, or that balanced inputs are no better than single ended?

Just trying to understand, not being picky or difficult. Let's try these options.

- too close to call, equally as good
- the difference is noticeable but not by much
- there's a significant difference
- no brainer
- other (your choice of words)

I appreciate your opinion, and for sharing your experience.

In my system and my opinion I would say that option #2 would be best.  I think rather then say the soundstage or imaging is so much better what sticks out to me is the micro detail.  Again, all systems and ears are different.  As for is it worth the extra money?  That's only something that you can answer.  If you can spend the extra money and it not effect you then yes.  If not, go with the IR and I strongly believe that you'll be very happy.  It's still a great amp.  All three are still great amps.  I think the proper selection of amp will depend on the sonic signature that you have now.  That will dictate which way to sway. 

Hope this makes sense.

[wushuliu]

So are these amps still going to be featured in Affordable Audio?

[rajesh]

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie from India. I joined this forum some time ago but couldn't dedicate much time to go through various posts which I must admit are very very informative. BTW, I'm a member of www.hifivision.com, an India centric AV forum.

I had heard about Class D audio & have made a payment for IR based amp. However, Tom insists that I made payment for TI amp. Now I found a new dimension i.e. Super D amp. In addition there are SDS and CDA amps

I'm required to reply Tom immediately & may not have sufficient time to go through this thread immediately.

I understand that super D amp is the most expensive.

Can any of the audio experts advise me which one to go for if cost is not a limiting factor?

Which Amp costs eventually what i.e. including casing, transformer, power supply et al.

Sorry for bothering you but your advise will be a great help for me.

Regards


Rajesh

[ebag4]

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie from India. I joined this forum some time ago but couldn't dedicate much time to go through various posts which I must admit are very very informative. BTW, I'm a member of www.hifivision.com, an India centric AV forum.

I had heard about Class D audio & have made a payment for IR based amp. However, Tom insists that I made payment for TI amp. Now I found a new dimension i.e. Super D amp. In addition there are SDS and CDA amps

I'm required to reply Tom immediately & may not have sufficient time to go through this thread immediately.

I understand that super D amp is the most expensive.

Can any of the audio experts advise me which one to go for if cost is not a limiting factor?

Which Amp costs eventually what i.e. including casing, transformer, power supply et al.

Sorry for bothering you but your advise will be a great help for me.

Regards


Rajesh

Hi Rajesh,
Welcome to AC!  There is a ton of great information in this thread but for what you are looking for simply review the last 2 pages.  They cover a few members preferences with regard to the various amps available from Tom.  Assuming they all have enough power for your application the last two pages should be able to give you an idea of what others hear in their systems.  Of course how they work in your system is an unknown until you actually try one.

Best,
Ed

[Nick77]

Most of us have bought the kit from Tom that includes power supply and transformer. If money isnt an objection then the SuperD series is a great way to go. Depending on casing can run an extra $50-$250 for a finished product.

[jtwrace]

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie from India. I joined this forum some time ago but couldn't dedicate much time to go through various posts which I must admit are very very informative. BTW, I'm a member of www.hifivision.com, an India centric AV forum.

I had heard about Class D audio & have made a payment for IR based amp. However, Tom insists that I made payment for TI amp. Now I found a new dimension i.e. Super D amp. In addition there are SDS and CDA amps

I'm required to reply Tom immediately & may not have sufficient time to go through this thread immediately.

I understand that super D amp is the most expensive.

Can any of the audio experts advise me which one to go for if cost is not a limiting factor?

Which Amp costs eventually what i.e. including casing, transformer, power supply et al.

Sorry for bothering you but your advise will be a great help for me.

Regards


Rajesh

Welcome Rajesh!

It might be easier to tell us what speakers you're going to drive.  Also, what source(s) you may be using with what pre?

[HT cOz]

Welcome Rajesh!

It might be easier to tell us what speakers you're going to drive.  Also, what source(s) you may be using with what pre?

I agree 100% no one can really give you any good advise without more information.  Do you know the impedance of your speakers and their efficiency?

[rajesh]

Hi everybody,

I'm really thrilled with the immediate voices of concerns & advices. So kind of you all.

I'm using the following equipment:-

Source: Marantz CD 6003 (Recently bought)
Amp: Denon PMA 520 (Very old may be a decade)
Speakers: DIY Full Rangers made using Kenwood drivers (Very Old)

The speakers have low sensitivity (85-86db or thereabouts)

So I'd say, I'm looking to change them too.

One of my friends Richie, who is much more experienced than me has suggested First Watt Bi Buffer Pre Amp (DIY) and GR Research N2X bookshelf speakers.

What is your take on the whole idea?

I can afford to buy the Super D kit.

Regards


Rajesh

I was looking to upgrade only my amp but considering all things, I'm in the process of thoroughly overhauling my system.

[Mariusz]

If you're into DIY or have a friend who is able to help out in completion of these projects, I would say go for it.
GR speakers kit, Nelson Pass baffer or perhaps Dodd Audio tube, battery powered baffer.
You might also look into Single Driver/Horn designs as far as speakers are concern.  These designs/drivers usually require much less power/headroom to sound their best.

Basicly, decision is yours and it depends on your application and budget.

Best
Mariusz

[jtwrace]

Hi everybody,

I'm really thrilled with the immediate voices of concerns & advices. So kind of you all.

I'm using the following equipment:-

Source: Marantz CD 6003 (Recently bought)
Amp: Denon PMA 520 (Very old may be a decade)
Speakers: DIY Full Rangers made using Kenwood drivers (Very Old)

The speakers have low sensitivity (85-86db or thereabouts)

So I'd say, I'm looking to change them too.

One of my friends Richie, who is much more experienced than me has suggested First Watt Bi Buffer Pre Amp (DIY) and GR Research N2X bookshelf speakers.

What is your take on the whole idea?

I can afford to buy the Super D kit.

Regards


Rajesh

I was looking to upgrade only my amp but considering all things, I'm in the process of thoroughly overhauling my system.

I would say the Super D or the IR.  If you can spend the extra money on the Super D go for it.  I would really look into the Dodd Buffer

[roymail]

First, welcome to Audio Circle... 

I agree that buying a kit is a good idea if that works for you.

Either the IR amp board or the Super D amp board would work well for you.  Both are very good.

If you use speakers of low sensitivity, I'd recommend either the CDA-254 or the SDS-254.  Either of these amp boards should give you sufficient output for those speakers.

This thread gets a little more active in the evening since lots of guys are working right now.  Ask any questions you may have, and all the best.