$175 Class D amp--120 wpc

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RichG

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3260 on: 13 Apr 2012, 07:16 pm »
Hm, unless you are a solder pro (and maybe you are) I would not mess with those boards. The chips are sensitive and adding those caps may be doing more harm than good. Especially on the bottom of the board.
 

I had / have similar concerns.  These type of mods should only be done by those who have the skills to do it right - as you say it could make matters worse. A wrong move could be very tricky to correct.

But it looks like Marcus has done a good job and whose to argue if he hears an improvement. 

RichG

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3261 on: 13 Apr 2012, 07:19 pm »
Thanks   :)
The system run around 2h and i really love it, normaly i'm to be reserved, but form me it is a clear improvement, don't expect such nice sound by change some components. The Elnas really match in my system. But i would say i have well improved and sensitiv system which surface every change.

Regards
Marcus
 

I've a bunch of Silmics in my draw - looks like they might have found a use.  Just need to clear my bench of other projects first.

wushuliu

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3262 on: 13 Apr 2012, 07:21 pm »
Yeah, Marcus did a very clean and tidy job. Way better than I could have done! :thumb:

.Marcus.

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3263 on: 14 Apr 2012, 05:42 am »
Thank you  :)

I had work some years in the electronic development of a company. That was very helpful to gain soldering skill.  :wink:

Please try the Elena in Both position and let me know your findings. If possible also update the PS Caps of THAT1200 and IRS2092 with higher cap value, low esr types ( I use Panasonic FC).

Regrads
Marcus

.Marcus.

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3264 on: 14 Apr 2012, 06:25 am »
I guess it could be done by everybody who have had some little solder experience. But you need the right tools (solder pin (not to small, around 3mm) , desolder wick, "good old" solder (before RoHS ) :wink: ).

Prepare is the key.

Pins of the Capacitors :



My issue is, i have only two hands  :)

But for me it helps to do it in following steps:
Make one pad of the target position free (desolder wick) and put some solder to the other pad.
Now fix the capacitor to that pad by heat up the solder on the pad (solder iron in one hand) and positioning the capacitor (in other hand) .. after that it is easy to put some solder to other "free" pad, because capacitor is already in place.

Regards
Marcus

PS : Sorry my english is not the best :( Hopfully some one could understand and imagine.

RichG

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3265 on: 14 Apr 2012, 06:50 am »
I guess it could be done by everybody who have had some little solder experience. But you need the right tools (solder pin (not to small, around 3mm) , desolder wick, "good old" solder (before RoHS ) :wink: ).

Prepare is the key.

Pins of the Capacitors :



My issue is, i have only two hands  :)

But for me it helps to do it in following steps:
Make one pad of the target position free (desolder wick) and put some solder to the other pad.
Now fix the capacitor to that pad by heat up the solder on the pad (solder iron in one hand) and positioning the capacitor (in other hand) .. after that it is easy to put some solder to other "free" pad, because capacitor is already in place.

Regards
Marcus

PS : Sorry my english is not the best :( Hopfully some one could understand and imagine.
 

Marcus - good advice and your English is more than adequate.

vinylb

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3266 on: 14 Apr 2012, 11:16 pm »
Couple of pages back I posted how I was trying to get around the limited space between power supply board and rear chassis plate and drilled holes and moved it close to the front - after somebody posted (forgive me for not finding the posters name) a caution of the heat, I took advice and moved it back.

Well I can tell you that was good advice - I was cleaning and moving my equipment around my rack and decided to put the amp on my carpet. Well after moving stuff around I decided to listen to some music and that turned into an hour or two of listening. Then suddenly my SDS-470 started clipping and the front led's blinked several times. Felt underneath where the amp board and power supply board are they were hot. Putting them back in rack on taller feet eradicated the heat issue below.

I still have some concerns about the heat on top of chassis even when put back in rack - it gets hot. It has never clipped in the rack, just got hot. For now I have Mcgyvor rigged a small fan to turn on when my other components turn on, but plan to run a 12 volt computer fan at 7 volts and have it run off battery with a switch and case I have lying around.

Kudos to all in this forum who have contributed especially AE, Mboxler, Matt_garman. I could not have felt confident without your support and previous posts. Now what do I do about my CDA-254L kit  in Par-metal case, that is gathering dust? :) forcing it to do duty as a center channel amp for my lcd tv just does not do justification to these wonderful amps.

I also wonder if Tom will ever get around to creating a preamp or integrated amp? Currently running mine off Bottlehead Quickie with upgrade and sounds good, real good - just dont like how microphonic it is.


vinylb

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3267 on: 14 Apr 2012, 11:29 pm »
I guess it could be done by everybody who have had some little solder experience. But you need the right tools (solder pin (not to small, around 3mm) , desolder wick, "good old" solder (before RoHS ) :wink: ).

Prepare is the key.

Pins of the Capacitors :



My issue is, i have only two hands  :)

But for me it helps to do it in following steps:
Make one pad of the target position free (desolder wick) and put some solder to the other pad.
Now fix the capacitor to that pad by heat up the solder on the pad (solder iron in one hand) and positioning the capacitor (in other hand) .. after that it is easy to put some solder to other "free" pad, because capacitor is already in place.

Regards
Marcus

PS : Sorry my english is not the best :( Hopfully some one could understand and imagine.

.Marcus, your English is just fine. The only regret I personally have is not picking up another language apart from the 3 I know. Does English/British and English/American count? :) Oh and I wish I chose low current electrical engineering instead of working in the family butcher. But thats another story.

Anyways thanks for your detailed posts.

.Marcus.

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3268 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:15 pm »
If possible also update the PS Caps of THAT1200 and IRS2092 with higher cap value, low esr types ( I use Panasonic FC).

Regrads
Marcus

Update:
Change to Panasonic FR in all PS Positions (both, reported tweak position and default populate "Big" FC 680µF / 63V) give also (clear !) improvment vs. Panasonic FC.

Summary of tweak :

THAT1200 Bootstrap Filter
SMD Tantal 220µF -> Elna Silmic II 220µF/ 6.3V

THAT1200 - IRS2092 Couple C
SMD Tantal 10µF -> Elna Silmic II 10µF / 16V

THAT1200 PS Part:
SMD Tantal 10µF -> Panasonic FR 680µF / 25V

IRS2092 PS Input Stage
SMD 22µF -> Panasonic FR 330µF / 25V

IRS2092 PS Output Stage
Panasonic FC 680µF / 63V -> Panasonic FR 1000µF / 50V
!! Note : This tweak limited Main Supply Voltage to 50V max !!

Main PS Stage
Panasonic FC 680µF / 63V -> Panasonic FR 1000µF / 50V
!! Note : This tweak limited Main Supply Voltage to 50V max !!

Regards
Marcus


krikor

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3269 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:52 pm »
Flying home from California after a brief visit with Tom at Class D Audio.  Picked up a new pair of SDS-450 amp boards with improved heat handling capabilities (as well as some other tweaks to the circuit I believe).  Great guy, nice tour of the skunk works and a good sneak peek at some upcoming new products.

A treat was getting to hear a pair of Polk SDA-SRS speakers (the 2.3TL if I've got the models right) driven by one of his little 254 stereo amps. The bass was incredible and full, rich sound all the way up.  Source was simply a lowly Squeezebox Touch through an older looking preamp I cannot recall the make of.

Future products? How about a relatively inexpensive 2"x2" amp board with volume control putting out about 15 watts.  You can even move a jumper to bridge it for 30 watts.  Just hook up a DC power supply anywhere from like 10-24 volts (or something like that, I may have the exact range wrong) or a battery and you're good to go.  I'm thinking about a portable cigar box amp.  Tom's sample sounded great with an iPod Nano source and a pair of NHT bookshelf speakers.

Looking forward to getting my SDS amp boards home and hooked up. Will post pictures once I've got them unpacked.

.Marcus.

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3270 on: 20 Apr 2012, 08:09 pm »
PS : Listen to SDS254 with updated PS Caps to Panasonic FR for 1h, amazing  :o
If you have the knowledge and solder skill highly recommended reported tweak, it is a really and clear improvement.





Ajani

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3271 on: 21 Apr 2012, 12:37 am »
Flying home from California after a brief visit with Tom at Class D Audio.  Picked up a new pair of SDS-450 amp boards with improved heat handling capabilities (as well as some other tweaks to the circuit I believe).  Great guy, nice tour of the skunk works and a good sneak peek at some upcoming new products.

A treat was getting to hear a pair of Polk SDA-SRS speakers (the 2.3TL if I've got the models right) driven by one of his little 254 stereo amps. The bass was incredible and full, rich sound all the way up.  Source was simply a lowly Squeezebox Touch through an older looking preamp I cannot recall the make of.

Future products? How about a relatively inexpensive 2"x2" amp board with volume control putting out about 15 watts.  You can even move a jumper to bridge it for 30 watts.  Just hook up a DC power supply anywhere from like 10-24 volts (or something like that, I may have the exact range wrong) or a battery and you're good to go.  I'm thinking about a portable cigar box amp.  Tom's sample sounded great with an iPod Nano source and a pair of NHT bookshelf speakers.

Looking forward to getting my SDS amp boards home and hooked up. Will post pictures once I've got them unpacked.

I didn't know there was a 450. What's the power rating for the SDS 450?

krikor

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3272 on: 21 Apr 2012, 02:18 am »
Ajani... 450 was on the website briefly, but has not been there recently. Here's some info I posted way back when...

At the risk of confounding matters for you, I recently contacted Tom about the same thing and ended up settling on a pair of the SDS-450 amps.  I think we are using the same speakers... Magnepan 1.6QR.  Initially I though I'd start with a single SDS-470 even though it seemed like overkill (though that's never really the case with Maggies).  But I wanted to keep the option open to go to a pair of amps for passive biamping or even mono blocks for more power.

Here's the response I got from Tom:  If you're going to run the amps in bridge mode, I would recommend the SDS-450 kits. They also run cooler and can put about 1000W RMS into your Magnepans.

The different models got so confusing with regards to power and price I put together a chart clarifying this for myself, based on what info I could dig up from Tom's site and this thread.  Here's what I came up with:


ModelSDS-224   SDS-254   SDS-258   SDS-450   SDS-470   
Stereo watts   
   8 ohm60125250150300
   4 ohm120250--300600
   2 ohm------600800
Mono watts
   8 ohms240500--600*800*
   4 ohms------600*800*
Board $235245265245**265**
Kit $ w/xfmr285320370350370


* Note from Tom: As far as power output in bridge mode the protection circuitry will prevent the amps from putting out more power than they actually could. The SDS-450 will put out about 600W into 8 ohm bridged and about the same into 4 ohm… protection circuit. The SDS-470 is just more power at about 800W bridged.

** Not currently listed on website, temporary price as of today 10/17/2011 possibly until this weekend. Will go up about $40 when listed on website. If anyone wants one before they are listed on the website, purchase the SDS-254 or SDS-258 and email Tom with instructions to upgrade to the SDS-450 (for SDS-254 price) or SDS-470 (for SDS-258 price).


The SDS-480 kit ($468) and SDS-1000 kit ($498) are simply the 224 and 254 kits with two amp boards and a single HD power supply, respectively.

I will send a copy of this to Tom to see if he can verify these numbers and fill in the holes.  I know it would make amp selection much easier if this was all available. Verified with notes added from Tom at Class D Audio

Oh, and I STILL have to assemble my amps and give them a try... maybe this weekend.  :whip:

ttan98

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3273 on: 21 Apr 2012, 02:56 pm »
Hi,

I read about 10 to 15 posts of this thread and also the website of ClassDAudio there is no mention of the chipset used in Model 254 and 258. Can anyone confirm these 2 models use this chipset IRS2092.

Sound wise which one sounds better is 254 or 258?

Thanks.

Ajani

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3274 on: 21 Apr 2012, 03:45 pm »
Ajani... 450 was on the website briefly, but has not been there recently. Here's some info I posted way back when...

Thanks.

I know this has been said a billion times before, but Tom really needs to update his site!

Also, what I really don't get is why he doesn't just stop making some of the older model SDS boards. If he creates a new version more stable into lower loads, then just be rid of the old one. Simplify his operations and the list of products. So if the 470 is supposed to be an improved version of the 258, then stop making the 258 and just keep the 470 - better yet call it 258 MKii or something.

Badwater

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3275 on: 21 Apr 2012, 05:39 pm »
I have two SDS 224 in a single case; post #2368 of this thread. I had planned to use them for Bi-amping an OB system that I built, but plans change and now I am considering running them bridged.  Any thoughts?

These amps sound wonderful and have been very reliable.  No heat issues. 

Thanks,

Bill

mboxler

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3276 on: 21 Apr 2012, 08:41 pm »
I have two SDS 224 in a single case; post #2368 of this thread. I had planned to use them for Bi-amping an OB system that I built, but plans change and now I am considering running them bridged.  Any thoughts?

These amps sound wonderful and have been very reliable.  No heat issues. 

Thanks,

Bill

Hi Bill

I just finished doing exactly that yesterday!  Just hooked the amp up to my Klipsch RF-83's...sounding good.  One detail that's not well documented...hook speaker outs to + and + on each amp, use the left speaker out for + and the right speaker out for -.

Good luck!

Mike

 

krikor

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3277 on: 22 Apr 2012, 04:18 pm »
Photos of revised SDS-450 amp module with improved heat handling capabilities to prevent premature tripping of the protection circuit.  Also applies to SDS-470.

  • Larger heatsink pontoons
  • Resistors mounted off the board to help with cooling
  • Thermistor moved towards the rear of the heatsink (small circle in middle of the heatsink at the power input/speaker output end of the PCB), originally at other side of the heatsink between the FETs where it was the hottest
  • Heatsink added spanning underneath PCB

Tom also mentioned that there was a change to the FET buffers which lie underneath the raised heatsink just behind the FETs.








rajacat

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3278 on: 22 Apr 2012, 10:55 pm »
What would happen if you presented the SDS-470 with a 16 ohm load?

Ajani

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #3279 on: 22 Apr 2012, 11:50 pm »
Photos of revised SDS-450 amp module with improved heat handling capabilities to prevent premature tripping of the protection circuit.  Also applies to SDS-470.

  • Larger heatsink pontoons
  • Resistors mounted off the board to help with cooling
  • Thermistor moved towards the rear of the heatsink (small circle in middle of the heatsink at the power input/speaker output end of the PCB), originally at other side of the heatsink between the FETs where it was the hottest
  • Heatsink added spanning underneath PCB

Tom also mentioned that there was a change to the FET buffers which lie underneath the raised heatsink just behind the FETs.








Nice pics! Thanks for the info.