AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 9 Aug 2018, 09:50 pm
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This customer owns some Super-V's. I'm trying to help him solve some issues he is having with the bottom end output. It could be that he is playing them at really high levels that are high enough to run out of SPL capabilities.
So I am looking for someone in his area that has the capability to take some in room measurements to see what the level of his subs are compared to the upper coaxial's.
Let me know if you can help.
Thanks,
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I can't help with what you are asking for but you have be curious.
What type of problem is he having? I had some issues with the subs on my Super Vs also.
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I can't help with what you are asking for but you have be curious.
What type of problem is he having? I had some issues with the subs on my Super Vs also.
His issue is not having the bass levels that he is looking for.
This is a pretty unusual situation with Super-7's as they have the ability to really hit some high SPL levels even down to the rock bottom. Most people can't stand to play them loud enough to work the woofers too hard. Keep in mind these have four 12" servo subs.
However, he feels like the bottom end is maxed out and won't keep up with the levels he is playing the upper co-axial driver. It is possible that he is playing them really loud. That P-Audio co-axial will handle a ton of power and play at insane levels. So the servo subs could run out of steam first, but that would be really loud.
We have removed the shelving circuit so the woofers won't have to play as low. They now have a lot less excursion demand. But he is still driving them hard enough to run the amps into thermal overload on occasion.
So we need to determine if there is an issue or if his preference might be a bottom end that is 10db or more above the rest. A room response will tell us what he has and then help us get him what he is looking for or solve his problem.
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Have him download this to his phone (from the App store):
http://www.studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/acoustic-analysis-modules/rta/
Then run pink noise through his system while the RTA is on. Have him take a screen shot of the reading. That should tell you if the subs are way off or not. And it'll show the SPL he's listening at.
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Have him download this to his phone (from the App store):
http://www.studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/acoustic-analysis-modules/rta/
Then run pink noise through his system while the RTA is on. Have him take a screen shot of the reading. That should tell you if the subs are way off or not. And it'll show the SPL he's listening at.
Thanks buddy!
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Out of curiosity......can he take a picture of the settings on the plate amps for somebody to look at?
Seems like there must be something obvious that is wrong. Plate amps not even connected? Not turned on? Gain at minimum?
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Danny
If no one else can help out I am only a 30min drive from him.
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Out of curiosity......can he take a picture of the settings on the plate amps for somebody to look at?
Seems like there must be something obvious that is wrong. Plate amps not even connected? Not turned on? Gain at minimum?
It is really hard to tell much by the amp settings. To balance to the output of the upper drivers could mean a volume on the plate amp control set at 9 o'clock on the dial or 3 o'clock on the dial. It just depends on the input sensitivity of the amp driving the upper.
It sounds like everything is connected and working, but he is driving them so hard that the amps get hot.
And you know we've used those same servo amps at shows where we played the dog out of them all day long and they still never get too hot or even warm to touch.
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Danny
If no one else can help out I am only a 30min drive from him.
Hey, it would really be appreciated if you can help. Even giving them a listen and giving me some additional feedback would be great. If you have any way of measuring them that would be even better.
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A long shot but, does he have the polarity correct on the subs ? Could see that killing the output.....
jay
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A long shot but, does he have the polarity correct on the subs ? Could see that killing the output.....
jay
Yeah, we've double checked all of that.
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Yeah, we've double checked all of that.
figured you would have but you never know. Hope you guys get it straightened out
jay
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Okay, well the reason I asked is I was having a problem with my servo subs on my super vs bottoming out when I played them loud. I couldn't figure out what was going on since I had them for at least a year and didn't notice the problem before.
Turns out both my amps were going bad and the servo motors weren't controlling the drivers the way they were supposed to. I sent them in and Brian fixed them. They have been fine ever since.
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I'm not sure what's going on here. I need a little help.
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My customer tried to get some SPL readings from his phone, but the mic on his phone doesn't read well below 200Hz.
So I need to find him someone that can help.
sandbagger can you drop by and pay this guy a visit? If so do you have a way of measuring his room response?
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I can send a Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB mic of he can download Room EQ Wizard on a PC with a USB port. Works well here. Just need a stand for the mic.
A Radio Shack SPL meter will work for that frequency range if nothing else.
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I can send a Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB mic of he can download Room EQ Wizard on a PC with a USB port. Works well here. Just need a stand for the mic.
A Radio Shack SPL meter will work for that frequency range if nothing else.
I have both the above plus a Parts Express IMM-6 mic (https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-imm-6-calibrated-measurement-microphone-for-tablets-iphone-ipad-and-android--390-810) which is about $16 and made for a smart phone. One can either get a free App or buy the Audio Tools App. Works well (I also have an Audio Control one third octave RTA).
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Danny,
You asked earlier if we think he is just playing them so loud that they are pooping out. I have to say I have done this to mine many times in the past, yes they are playing loud. Like I have mentioned before I have a decent size room 20'x30'x10'. When I first bottomed them out I was really surprised because I was always told they can't do that. Mine don't do that often and it is always when playing lower bass notes, but it does happen.
Like I mentioned earlier in this thread I did have problems with both my servo amps and had to get them repaired because they stopped controlling the the woofers the way they were supposed to, but that was a different situation.
My guess is he has a largish room and likes to play his music loud.
Greg
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Greg, do you happen to be using the 8 ohm woofers in your v's or did you get the 16's ?
jay
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If you are using the dual 8 ohm woofers than the A370PEQ amp does have enough power into that load to push the woofers to past X-Max. It won't do that or won't do that near as easily with the 16 ohm woofers as the higher impedance limits the power.
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I assume they are the 8 ohm since they are the woofers that came with the kit.
I can push them to max for sure in my room but it has to be very loud to do it and only when it is deep bass.
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I think all the original SV kits Danny sold would have had the SW12 16Fr's. When your run them in parallel, you end up with a 8 ohm load (actually a bit less due to the fact they are not the full 16 ohms).
Not sure where you got the kit but if it is a kit that was pieced together (not purchased as a complete kit from Danny), possibly you ended up with the 8 ohm version. If that's the case, then your amps are seeing slightly less than a 4 ohm load so they'd be outputing signifigantly more power allowing the woofers to bottom at very high levels
jay
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Pulling the extension filter back or setting the damping to a higher setting will limit that from happening as well.
The 14Hz extension and low damping can push them pretty hard sometimes.
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I think all the original SV kits Danny sold would have had the SW12 16Fr's. When your run them in parallel, you end up with a 8 ohm load (actually a bit less due to the fact they are not the full 16 ohms).
Not sure where you got the kit but if it is a kit that was pieced together (not purchased as a complete kit from Danny), possibly you ended up with the 8 ohm version. If that's the case, then your amps are seeing slightly less than a 4 ohm load so they'd be outputing signifigantly more power allowing the woofers to bottom at very high levels
jay
This is an original kit from Danny and was complete with all the upgraded parts. I didn't know what speakers it came with so it must be the 16 ohm version.
My point is they do bottom out when the conditions are what I posted earlier, it is rare to ever have an issue though.
Greg
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My customer is not having good luck with taking measurements. The measurements show that either the subs aren't playing near loud enough or the mic really isn't measuring well below 200Hz.
Can I get one of you guys in his area to pay him a visit and give his system a listen?
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Can one of you guys drop by and give his system a listen for me?
Sandbagger?
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Can one of you guys drop by and give his system a listen for me?
Sandbagger?
Danny
Just saw this as Rich just sent me a msg
Its been a while since I have fired up the software since I reloaded my laptop. I will get that straightened out and set something up to go see what is going on
Kevin
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Thanks Kevin,
Even if you could drop by for a listen and get me some feedback as to what's going on that would be great. And some measurements would be really great.
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Do a visual operational check on the woofer cones. Very early on, one of my servos had a circuit failure, I suspect in the feedback. The cones were visibly dancing erratically with only a murmur of sound. Losing one side, even thou basically mono below 200hz, would be profound. Brian was kind enough to remedy, though I never quizzed him. I’ve come to enjoy my investment in the Vs, the servo line feed marrys well from preamp filter, to any “sidekick” speaker. It’s a great play on FR and illuminates room responses quite well.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184657)