[Early B.]

Not sure where this topic belongs, but I'm certain you guys can answer my questions about DACs and redbook playback. I don't have a computer rig, nor do I plan to build one anytime soon. Yeah, I still spin CDs. So what!

I'm in the market for a new (ummm - used) high end DAC, but I'm confused by all of the DAC offerings. I have three questions:

1. Generally speaking, should I stay away from "old" DACs and focus on newer ones (past 2-3 years) due to advances in technology?

2. Generally, if a DAC sounds great in a computer rig, does that mean it will also sound great in a redbook rig?

3. What is the price point when diminishing returns kick in? I'm wondering if spending $2K or more is required for a used high end DAC. Not interested in paying extra for stuff I don't need like optical, USB, DSD, etc., but I may not have a choice (or do I?).

Ideally, I'd love to find an audio savant who custom builds DACs in his garage for cheap.

My current Cherry DAC is great, but just want to try something different. The only reasonably priced DAC I've found interesting thus far is the Musical Paradise MP-D2. Waiting for MKIII to drop soon. I like it because it has great reviews, it's designed to be user upgradable and there's infinite possibilities with tube rolling. Just want to learn more about DACs and see if there's anything else out there. 
 
Thanks.

[Wayne1]

Here is a link to a great post by the late Charles Hansen of Ayre who discusses what is important in a DAC:

What is important in a DAC

For 44/16 only, I will suggest you do not need the latest in chip technology. You do not need to spend money on DSD or USB.

Take a look at Orchard Audio Gala Use a good power supply and you should be very happy.

I am currently running his DAC Hat on my Raspberry PI streaming from my computer using ROON. It sounds exceptional.

My other DAC is DIY and USB only with some over built power supplies.

Modular DIY DAC

Leo's DAC sounds very close.

[FullRangeMan]

It could be useful if you get a DAC that could do PCM til 192 and 352(DXD) along with DSD64 at least.

[Early B.]

Here is a link to a great post by the late Charles Hansen of Ayre who discusses what is important in a DAC:

What is important in a DAC

For 44/16 only, I will suggest you do not need the latest in chip technology. You do not need to spend money on DSD or USB.

This is very helpful. Thanks.

[Mike-48]

I listen mostly to Redbook myself (though via ripped files), and my ears tell me that DACs have improved and continue to improve.  For one example, there is more attention to allowing for intersample overs. I've bought used amps and speakers, but I would rather have a current DAC.

For $2k, you can get one of the best new DACs -- the Benchmark DAC3. Maybe it's worth an audition. But if you're interested in tube rolling, it's probably not the unit for you.

USB could be useful later. I recommend getting it if possible, and all new DACs have it.

DSD capability is a frill, especially since you're spinning CDs. How much DSD material is there, really? People say there's a lot, but not when compared to the vast amount available as PCM of all resolutions, on disc and downloadable.

By "Cherry DAC," do you mean the DAC DAC?  It gets raves, doesn't it?  If you just want to play around with tone a little, you might try a Schiit Loki or some other high-quality equalizer. The Loki is cheap, and owners seem to love them.

One man's opinions -- I hope they give some food for thought.

P.S. Another route might be to try a Mutec MC-3+ or MC-3+USB reclocker between transport and DAC. I got one (used), and it opened up and stabilized the imaging of my setup.

[FullRangeMan]

If only for CDs a DAC and transport is not my choice but instead a vintage regular CD player as Denon DCD1520, Sony or Rotel 991 they have a nice sound at low price.

[Big Red Machine]

I'd look at a ladder dac. Reasonably priced units new in the up to $3k area.

A good dac is noise-free and smooth at all resolutions. I honestly think my dac is way better at redbook than DSD. So I don't sweat the high rez stuff although we all know redbook varies like crazy in recording quality.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Consider the Lampizator Big 6 dac. Dedicated 16/44 R2R ladder implementation.  Discontinued a year or 2 ago in favor of newer designs and more formats.  I got one just for the reasons you mention. The guys running the Lampizator circle may be able to help find one. Probably in the $2k to $2.5k range. Nothing new will come close in that price range.  I sold a much more expensive dac a week after I purchased mine to a friend who wanted all the connectivity and multiple formats it handled.

[rollo]

   For me a dedicated 44.1 transport and  DAC. The DAC must be able to play all formats. I use a server as well fo the other sample rates. Choosing a DAC one must consider if it is able to be upgraded from factory as NOT to loose your original investment. Also like R2R in lieu of chip. I like the Aqua Acoustic line of DACs. I use the Formula x HD.


charles

[macrojack]

DAC is the antidote for ADC. If you are unable to translate digital into a language you understand, a DAC can do that for you.

In your situation I would look for lightly used high end DVD players from the past to play redbook CDs. Be sure it has digital outputs so you can add a DAC  if ever you get the urge or the need. Think Denon, Sony, Yamaha, etc.

[rodge827]

My current Cherry DAC is great, but just want to try something different. The only reasonably priced DAC I've found interesting thus far is the Musical Paradise MP-D2. Waiting for MKIII to drop soon. I like it because it has great reviews, it's designed to be user upgradable and there's infinite possibilities with tube rolling. Just want to learn more about DACs and see if there's anything else out there. 
Thanks.

I had the MP-D2 and replaced it with a DAC DAC HS. The MP-D2 is very good sounding but you will need to spend a lot more money for better output tubes, rectifier tube, and coupling caps. The MP-D2 has features built in that your paying for but just don't need for redbook play back.
I use a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport with great results into my DAC DAC HS, and will be putting both up for sale soon since I just went with a server/dac combo and won't need them anymore.

Chris

[Early B.]

I had the MP-D2 and replaced it with a DAC DAC HS. The MP-D2 is very good sounding but you will need to spend a lot more money for better output tubes, rectifier tube, and coupling caps. The MP-D2 has features built in that your paying for but just don't need for redbook play back.
I use a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport with great results into my DAC DAC HS, and will be putting both up for sale soon since I just went with a server/dac combo and won't need them anymore.

This is very helpful. I also use a PS Audio PerfectWave Transport with the DAC DAC. Sounds like I would need to spend a ton of money on a DAC to get a substantial improvement from what I already have.

How is the sound quality difference between the PerfectWave transport/DAC DAC and the server/DAC combo?   

[rodge827]

How is the sound quality difference between the PerfectWave transport/DAC DAC and the server/DAC combo?

The PWT DAC DAC sounds much better than the Raspberry Pi based server I'm using. A friend built it for me and I have no idea what he used or how he built it! The PWT DAC DAC is better detailed, less congested, images better and sound stage is larger. Overall a better musical presentation than the server playing Tidal. I have only been using the server for less than a week but spent a lot of time on rainy Saturday comparing.  I will be ripping my music to a hard drive soon and can attach to the server maybe it will sound better? Dunno yet!

Will be selling the PWT and DAC DAC HS to pay for some unexpected medical bills.

Chris

[jMelvin]

@Early B., curious if you decided on a DAC. If not, a Border Patrol SE DAC seems like it might be a nice fit for you. It's based on the TDA1543 NOS chip (24/96), is tube rectified, and can be ordered with S/PDIF only. Great reviews. This was on my radar not too long ago but I already have a nice TDA1543 based DAC. I opted for an MHDT Lab Pagoda for a different flavor.

[Elizabeth]

IT all depends.
How good is the resolution on your system?
How much does the high frequency digital grunge bother you?
Do you already have a method to deal with it?
In general, most DAC are in the same league, until you are spending a LOT of money.
The point of actual yeah this is an upgrade to me would be a Schiit Yeggdrasil.
So around $2300 as a base or higher to get something that actually sounds better  in a high end system.
I used to have a Adcom DA700 I bought used for $250.. used it for YEARS.. and tried others, nothing actually 'better' until  tried and bought a $7000 device.
I read all sorts of posts about lateral moves (my words) to gain some nearly invisible improvement.
Dacs are kind of like trying different tube brands. Yeah you can hear a subtle difference, but it is not a major difference, just variations of  the same thing.
So like buying those NOS Mullard or Telefunken for $$$.. you get what you pay for.

[Early B.]

@Early B., curious if you decided on a DAC.

I ended up with a Gustard DAC-X22. Like Elizabeth mentioned, there's a subtle difference between what I had before and perhaps a lateral move sonically. Of course, I spent "pennies" on it, so I didn't expect some grand improvement. It's a different flavor, and I'm OK with that.  The notion that DACs are like trying different tubes is a good analogy.