AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: TKonrad.NOLA on 12 Aug 2018, 02:39 am
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Was all prepared to purchase a Roon Nucleus to use with a Bluesound Node 2 endpoint. The salesman made me feel like it would be a waste of money to purchase a Nucleus if I was going to use it with the Node 2 and suggested I buy a nice DAC to use it with. Is he right?
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The salesman made me feel like it would be a waste of money to purchase a Nucleus if I was going to use it with the Node 2 and suggested I buy a nice nice to use it with. Is he right?
I'm not sure, what's a "nice nice" ?
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Oops typo. Nice DAC.
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If your endpoint is networked, the Nucleus makes zero difference in SQ. It offers convenience to those that don't want to learn about computer or want to get something of their own. I personally wouldn't get it. You could get a 27" 5k iMac that could run Roon and just about anything else for the same amount of money. Plus, you'd have a beautiful desktop to do other stuff on. Running Roon on OS X is super easy as well for beginners.
I also would rather put the money into the networked digital player and/or the DAC before spending on a Nucleus.
I'd only consider the Nucleus if I had the extra money laying around and the computer absolutely had to be in the room (acoustic noise from fan).
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I was introduce to ROON ROCK on a NUC which is the same as Nucleus a couple month .It's freaking awesome,I use Allo Bridge for my DAC for my system and I can listening to headphone thru my ipad pro from NAS library. :popcorn:
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Roon Nucleaus and DACs do different things, so it depends on the answer to other questions about what you want to do now, what you want to be able to do in the future, what equipment you already have and how much money you want to spend in pursuit of these goals.
In the past, I've been guilty of assuming that saving money is a priority for everyone. If this is true for you, others have noted a couple of viable alternatives to Nucleus.
Running Roon server on a computer you use for other purposes has pro's and cons, but it's how most people get started with Roon and evaluate it. For many it's all they need / want and there's no need to do anything differently. If you have already done this and decided that you'd like a dedicated Roon server, Roon's ROCK is a good next step.
Roon's ROCK is the exact same dedicated operating system that runs Nucleus. It differs from Nucleus in that you have to buy your own hardware, assemble the computer and install the OS. That might sound daunting, but as long as you are minimally handy, are comfortable installing memory, drive storage and following simple instructions to install the OS this gives you a Nucleus without the very nice case.
Nucleus was developed by Roon to help broaden appeal in the following scenarios:
- To provide dealers with a turnkey device to sell as part of an end to end solution for their customers
- For people who want as little to do with computers as possible
- For people who appreciate the aesthetics of a beautiful, silent device that can sit proudly on display
Lastly, there are people who decide to roll their own Roon server solution on custom hardware and / or with custom Linux, but that's rarely in order to save money and more likely because they have a specialist use case or want to push the boundaries of advanced Roon features.
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I too have been considering the possible benefits of running the Roon core on a dedicated device like the Nucleus. Currently I am running it on a 2012 iMac with an i7 processor and 16gb of memory. This iMac is connected to my network wirelessly...which I know is against Roon recommendations but it is my only option for this iMac. So far (still in my trial period) everything seems to be working ok. Getting a dedicated Roon server would also give me the ability to install a SSD to store flac files. I have considered the NUC, the Nucleus and more recently the Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter. I like the Transporter as it is priced between the NUC and the Nucleus. Any opinions on the Sonic Transporter?...either the i5 or i7 version? BTW, I am currently streaming with a Lumin T1 with a wired connection to my network. I also have a Synology NAS containing my music files. Again, curious to here what folks have to say about the Sonic Transporter. thanks...Or, will I just as well off to stick with what I have as long as it seems to be working?
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From what I've read regarding the SGC Sonic Transporters (no first hand experience) the only reason to justify the more costly i7 version is if you're going to be doing high rate DSD conversions for a DAC that excels at DSD, particularly when running HQ Player at some of their most advanced processor intensive settings.
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For storage, the Roon guys have always told me that they much prefer local attached storage (either internal or external USB drive) over NAS. Roon works better and more efficiently with local storage. SSD is too expensive for storage. The Western Digital portable hard drives (up to 4TB) are barely audible (5400 RPM) in a typical silent room from a foot or two away. With the music playing, you will never ever hear them. I've been using multiple of them for years reliably. Few of them have plugged in 24/7 on the Bryston BDP-1 and iMac. SSD's also won't make any difference in sound quality if the audio endpoint is networked.
If ease of use is important, I'd guess that Roon on a Nucleus running ROCK is probably the best for ease of use. However, I haven't used it. Although, Roon on OS X has been flawless. For massive libraries (300,000+ tracks), Windows is preferred over Linux (ROCK) and OS X, at least for now. I personally prefer running Roon on a Mac over a NUC. I have more control over the machine and can use it for other things. OS X also doesn't add any hassles to the user experience in any way.
If the endpoint is networked, it shouldn't matter whether the Roon Core is connected to the network by ethernet or Wifi. I've tried it both ways in my setup and it doesn't matter provided you have good wifi and don't get any hiccups. Still, wired ethernet is the best for stability.
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I can’t believe anyone would buy the nucleus or any other Roon appliance over an i7 NUC with ROCK.
I run four zones with a >6TB library and it works amazing. All for under $700 with the i7 and 16gb ram.
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I can’t believe anyone would buy the nucleus or any other Roon appliance over an i7 NUC with ROCK.
I run four zones with a >6TB library and it works amazing. All for under $700 with the i7 and 16gb ram.
I can't understand a word of what you just wrote (old fart, non-techie here) but might like to. :oops:
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I can't understand a word of what you just wrote (old fart, non-techie here) but might like to. :oops:
It's what jpm explained nicely in post #6. The diy approach for those comfortable with it. Roon will supply the same operating system used in Nucleus for the purpose.
Still, I'm not sure we're understanding or answering the OP's question. Apparently he wants to use Roon with his Node, but doesn't currently? It's not clear to me. I need to know more about what he's doing currently, and what he wants to do in the end. If he's using Roon, the software has to run somewhere on the network. Are you already using Roon? Please be more specific about why you're considering a Nucleus. For better SQ, or to begin using Roon?
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I can't understand a word of what you just wrote (old fart, non-techie here) but might like to. :oops:
It’s a mini computer that you buy in parts. It’s only three things to buy. The NUC, harddrive and RAM.
Everything clicks together very easy and then you load the operating system developed by Roon. Adding the software is the “trickiest” part but Roon provides step by step instructions.
Things to consider are the ROCK is Ethernet out only. You will need an hdmi monitor and keyboard to set up but after you can access via a website.
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I am not price shopping here but these are the parts you need.
i7 NUC
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC-mini-NUC7i7BNH-Core/dp/B01N0RL8Q4
M2 hard drive
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX500-250GB-2280SS-Internal/dp/B077SL4FZG/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534164104&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=120gb+m.2&psc=1
Memory
https://www.amazon.com/Timetec-PC4-17000-Unbuffered-Notebook-Computer/dp/B07D332D9Y/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534164211&sr=1-3&keywords=NUC+8gb+ddr4
Open up the NUC and install the two other parts. They only go one way so very easy. Then follow Roon's instruction to install ROCK. You will need a small flash drive with nothing on it or stuff you can delete. You will also need to download a simple software to make the flash drive a bootable drive.
https://kb.roonlabs.com/ROCK_Install_Guide
I would be happy to walk anyone through this. Its not that hard and the instructions are step by step.
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Sure would be cool if you could go direct via ethernet output to the renderer (in my case a Rendu) end point and then another Ethernet connector to the storage/NAS.
This is what has me w paralysis over choosing a ROON Core Compooder. I'm hoping a plug and play solution will trickle down to these cheaper boxes.
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Sure would be cool if you could go direct via ethernet output to the renderer (in my case a Rendu) end point and then another Ethernet connector to the storage/NAS.
Hope I'm not misunderstanding ... technically this could be possible, but it requires more than a basic understanding of how to configure hardware and software. If the hope is that this would be an easier option, definitely not!
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Sure would be cool if you could go direct via ethernet output to the renderer (in my case a Rendu) end point and then another Ethernet connector to the storage/NAS.
This is what has me w paralysis over choosing a ROON Core Compooder. I'm hoping a plug and play solution will trickle down to these cheaper boxes.
Dual NIC mini computers are around. You can also add a cheap ethernet switch.
https://www.cdw.com/product/Siemon-network-splitter-white/414742?cm_cat=GoogleBase&cm_ite=414742&cm_pla=NA-NA-SIN_CN&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=WqkiTAAACmR0pZJ_:20180813135926:s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzrPA_5fq3AIVRJyzCh1hcgFTEAQYBCABEgKcRPD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!198553132056!!!g!300960078122!
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You can do bridged setups with dual NIC ports and/or using USB to ethernet adapters. I've done it that way before. It's much simpler with just a switch.
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Dual NIC mini computers are around. You can also add a cheap ethernet switch.
https://www.cdw.com/product/Siemon-network-splitter-white/414742?cm_cat=GoogleBase&cm_ite=414742&cm_pla=NA-NA-SIN_CN&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=WqkiTAAACmR0pZJ_:20180813135926:s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzrPA_5fq3AIVRJyzCh1hcgFTEAQYBCABEgKcRPD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!198553132056!!!g!300960078122 (https://www.cdw.com/product/Siemon-network-splitter-white/414742?cm_cat=GoogleBase&cm_ite=414742&cm_pla=NA-NA-SIN_CN&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=WqkiTAAACmR0pZJ_:20180813135926:s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzrPA_5fq3AIVRJyzCh1hcgFTEAQYBCABEgKcRPD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!198553132056!!!g!300960078122)!
Well.... Unfortunately, I think its more complicated than that:
Computer Audiophile Thread Ethernet Bridging (https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=7)
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Well.... Unfortunately, I think its more complicated than that:
Computer Audiophile Thread Ethernet Bridging (https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=7)
That's exactly what I've done in the past on OS X based on that thread. No switches involved. Only direct connections with the computer and the networked endpoint (BDP-1). It's much simpler and convenient to simply have a switch in place with your audio related devices plugged in.
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Well.... Unfortunately, I think its more complicated than that:
Computer Audiophile Thread Ethernet Bridging (https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=7)
How is it more complicated? I'm not sure I am getting the info from your link you intend. I have used this switch for years from a mac mini and now with a ROCK.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122005&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Network+-+Switches-_-N82E16833122005&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI88-a653q3AIVCrbICh3yvQm5EAQYAiABEgIDB_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
This server has dual nic. They don't have a special computer in it. You can find one just like it and install ROCK.
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i7-for-roon-dsp?variant=35324041615
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Could you guys please start a networking thread to cover this? Off topic to this one. :)
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Could you guys please start a networking thread to cover this? Off topic to this one. :)
It's very easy to go down a rabbit hole of technical talk with computer audio! The Roon forums are the best place to go for detailed discussions:
https://community.roonlabs.com/
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It's what jpm explained nicely in post #6. The diy approach for those comfortable with it. Roon will supply the same operating system used in Nucleus for the purpose.
Still, I'm not sure we're understanding or answering the OP's question. Apparently he wants to use Roon with his Node, but doesn't currently? It's not clear to me. I need to know more about what he's doing currently, and what he wants to do in the end. If he's using Roon, the software has to run somewhere on the network. Are you already using Roon? Please be more specific about why you're considering a Nucleus. For better SQ, or to begin using Roon?
My apologies for my original post not being clear. I am NOT presently using Roon, but want to get into it. I am not very techy so haven't really considered going the DIY route, nor do I want to deal with installing operating systems. right now I just own a Node 2 and I am using the BluOS app. I was trying to decide if I should purchase the Nucleus and a DAC or just the Nucleus and use the Node 2 as the end point. Would I get better sound quality going right into a DAC?
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I wish people wouldn’t consider the ROCK DIY. It’s so easy, requires a screwdriver and about an hour.
I don’t understand how any of it works but can follow instructions pretty good.
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. ..... Would I get better sound quality going right into a DAC?
Right into a dac from the Nucleus, streaming Tidal or pulling files from the Nucleus storage, compared to Tidal or stored files via the Node? Yes, if your system including the new dac can expose the differences.
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I wish people wouldn’t consider the ROCK DIY. It’s so easy, requires a screwdriver and about an hour.
I don’t understand how any of it works but can follow instructions pretty good.
What's easy or convenient for some, may not be for others. Some people change their own oil, some don't. Some choose not to have a car. You can save a lot of money if you don't have a car.
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My apologies for my original post not being clear. I am NOT presently using Roon, but want to get into it. I am not very techy so haven't really considered going the DIY route, nor do I want to deal with installing operating systems. right now I just own a Node 2 and I am using the BluOS app. I was trying to decide if I should purchase the Nucleus and a DAC or just the Nucleus and use the Node 2 as the end point. Would I get better sound quality going right into a DAC?
It can be easy to get a little intimidated and / or confused by all the different options around this, but there are lots of friendly people here and on the Roon community forums who are happy to help.
In your position, I'd opt to take some small simple steps to start with before dropping a lot of money. I realize that "a lot of money" is relative, but it's as good a way as any other to choose a starting point and direction.
- Right now, you can download Roon software, install it on your computer and point it to music files, wherever you store them.
- If you don't have many music files, you might also want to give the Tidal streaming service a trial to expand your options.
- If you have an iPad (or iPhone, or Android tablet / phone), use that as your interface to control Roon in case going back and forth to your computer is inconvenient.
Give it a try this evening, see how you get on and how you like it.
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What's easy or convenient for some, may not be for others. Some people change their own oil, some don't. Some choose not to have a car. You can save a lot of money if you don't have a car.
AMEN! That's me in a nutshell. I know that I could learn to change my oil, or paint or build a NUC but I am so not the type to do that kind of stuff. With that being said, I just ordered a Nucleus. Looking forward to getting started with Roon.
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Congratulations on that. I have a buddy who is IT savvy and built the NUC/ROCK recently and added it to his network. He's enjoying Roon, and now has several endpoints. I would do it with his assistant, but probably not on my own. I don't currently use Roon.
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Always good to know your limits...
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The Nucleus has arrived but for some reason I am experiencing buyers remorse and haven't opened the box. Starting to think I paid too much for this and maybe I should go the Nuc route.
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Did you consider the Nucleus+? Have you checked out your requirements (DSP, multi zone, library size)?
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Did you consider the Nucleus+? Have you checked out your requirements (DSP, multi zone, library size)?
yeah I did the homework and the normal Nucleus fits my requirements but paying this much for an i3 computer bothers me.
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If I was spending a lot of money on something overpriced as it is, I'd probably make it a Nucleus+ to at least somewhat future proof it. I wouldn't do the i3 Nucleus personally.
Even then, I'd much rather spend the money on the upcoming Mac Mini or iMac to run Roon like an appliance 24/7 over the Nucleus(+) and still be able to use it with anything else. I never hear the fans come on with all 4 of my Mac devices (SSDs) with Roon.
If you want to get a NUC and build it yourself and are comfortable, then go for it. You can either run ROCK or Windows 10. With ROCK, you'll get a nice dedicated OS without extra crap. On the other hand, you can't run anything else on it (same as Nucleus).
If I was going to spend a lot of money, I'd go all in on a Nucleus+ or a Mac. On the other hand, if I wanted to save money and maximize my investment, I'd definitely build a NUC myself with ROCK and keep it dedicated for Roon.
I was considering a NUC and still may in the future, but I just found that for my workflow and downloading music on a frequent basis and transporting it to local attached storage and having Roon right there in the same device just made a lot of sense. Zero headaches.
I hope you are clear about what it is that you want and how you plan to operate and interact with the device on a frequent basis.
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The Nucleus has arrived but for some reason I am experiencing buyers remorse and haven't opened the box. Starting to think I paid too much for this and maybe I should go the Nuc route.
If you do decide to go the ROCK route reach out to me if you have questions. I'm happy to help.
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If you do decide to go the ROCK route reach out to me if you have questions. I'm happy to help.
I just dropped the unopened Nucleus off at the UPS store to return. I am ordering the parts for an i7 NUC.
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I just dropped the unopened Nucleus off at the UPS store to return. I am ordering the parts for an i7 NUC.Would you mind sharing your BOM?
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Roon list a BOM on their ROK page.
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DigitalDude let us know how it goes. I've been thinking of building a NUC with ROCK myself. I feel fairly confident but having never done anything like that before, I keep putting it off. If yours goes well it would probably get me started.
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DigitalDude let us know how it goes. I've been thinking of building a NUC with ROCK myself. I feel fairly confident but having never done anything like that before, I keep putting it off. If yours goes well it would probably get me started.
I put off the ordering for a while myself but all items are going to be delivered today. I have a small library about 20K tracks and I have no plans of doing any upsampling or having several endpoints, so I went with the NUC7i5BNH, 8GB of RAM and a Samsung 256GB SSD. Haven't decided if I am going to install a 2.5" drive inside for music.
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Alright, good luck with the build/install. I'm sure knowledgeable members will help out if you hit any snags. Maybe start a build thread?
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Alright, good luck with the build/install. I'm sure knowledgeable members will help out if you hit any snags. Maybe start a build thread?
Good idea. Thanks.
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Good idea. Thanks.
For posterity.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159560.msg1703793#new