Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers

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Desertpilot

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I know we have to be careful with OB speakers.  Spatial recommends a minimum 18 inches from edge of the speaker to sidewalls and recommends a minimum 3 feet from back of the the speaker to the front wall.  Okay, I get that and I exceed those minimums.  But.  My X3s are huge speakers.  Imposing, really.  When I sit at the MLP, the left and right speakers are (mid baffle to mid baffle) 10 feet apart.  The MLP to each speaker (mid baffle) is also 10 feet.  Yeah, an equilateral triangle!

And yet, they are seemingly in my face.  Personally, after all my positioning adjustments, I feel I am getting great sound but I thought it would be helpful to ask fellow members how they are configured between the MLP and their speakers.  I do readjust the speakers to 2.5 feet from the front wall (no closer because it creates a real echo on vocals).  In this position they are much less imposing but for music, depth goes away.  I really can't move the MLP towards the rear wall.  My only alternative is to turn the lights out (hahaha).

My question is:  What is your MLP to speakers measurement?  How close is "too" close?  How far is "too" far?

Marcus

Tyson

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #1 on: 5 May 2022, 09:12 pm »
I sit about 10 feet away from mine.  The X3's are a lot smaller than the Super-7 OB speakers I have downstairs, so the X3's never seem overwhelming to me.  I find them 'cute', haha.

Bingenito

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #2 on: 6 May 2022, 01:17 am »
Wow man... 10ft away is in your personal space?  :lol:

Kidding I know what you mean. Not with my X4s but former speakers that I have owned that are much larger like Magnepans being over 6ft tall and 2ft wide.

I am also right at an equilateral triangle however since the distance between speakers is so wide I see my gear and the glowing blue lights that make me forget about most things and fade into a trance. To be honest I kind of forget the speakers are there.

RE: How close is to close or far: .9 to 1.25x the distance from acoustic centers is probably a good general guideline but is dispersion dependent. Moving closer will not help but back anywhere from 10.5-12.5ft might work. You will have to play with toe in/ out as well. Since you cant move back you can try moving the speakers away in like 4-6" increments.

RonN5

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #3 on: 6 May 2022, 03:12 am »
If you remember Ron from NRD’s review of the X5’s, he said that in addition to being incredibly revealing, the presentation was forward… which makes your 10’ feel more like 6’.  I’ve noticed this with other highly regarded AMT speakers such as the Legacy, the Goldenear and the Martin Logan’s.  Is this a characteristic of AMT’s???  I don’t really know.

 I guess the obvious options are….

1.  Change the listening position
2.  Try different electronics that reduce the forward presentation

Hopefully, more X owners respond with their experiences.

Bingenito

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #4 on: 6 May 2022, 10:20 am »
Quote
My only alternative is to turn the lights out (hahaha).

RoN45- I think Marcus is referring to visually in his face based on the quote above. Meaning with a large speaker close he feels visually like he should move back. That is how I read it at least.

On the subject of forward presentation from AMT/ Ribbon/ ESL I never found a properly designed speaker paired with the right gear to sound forward. I do however think that those types of tweeters lend themselves to higher resolution, lower distortion which when paired with the wrong gear or setup incorrectly e.g. aggressive toe in can cause what some might call a more forward presentation. Speaking in a very general sense here.

Desertpilot

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #5 on: 6 May 2022, 01:31 pm »
RoN45- I think Marcus is referring to visually in his face based on the quote above. Meaning with a large speaker close he feels visually like he should move back. That is how I read it at least.

This is correct.

But, it prompted me to ask what distance other folks find comfortable.  Looks like my 10 feet is in the ballpark.  The soundstage and depth for me is fantastic at this distance.  So, I'll be happy with what I've got.  Turn the lights down and close my eyes, that's the solution (hahaha).

ric

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #6 on: 6 May 2022, 02:06 pm »
Yes, my guess is that room size will dictate speaker/listener distance, in my case 16' wide room, speakers approx. 8' CtoC and about 9' to listening position. That's with the older M3TS. Personally I don't care if they are in my face, it's the SQ that matters! But there does seem to be a sweet spot from the corners determining too much vs. too little bass. A half an inch can make a difference. Happy listening!

Mr. Big

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #7 on: 6 May 2022, 02:49 pm »
I have had speakers that can really disappear and just look like objects sitting in front of you, but hey they still look like a speaker and you surely can't miss them..smile! Why do I turn down the lights or sit in a dark room, eyes shut down and all I hear is the sound. So real.

The only speakers I listened to was in a media room and you did not know they were there, they were designed for in-wall use, and many superb ones out there.

TomS

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #8 on: 6 May 2022, 03:07 pm »
My room is 17D x 19W x 8H. I measured my X5's "final" position and sure enough after many adjustments, and it's almost an equilateral triangle. 8.5' center to center, ~9' to listening position. They are currently 56" from the front wall to the front face of the speakers, with very little toe in depending on music. They aren't physically as big as planars, so I think they're just a bit easier to get used to in situ.

Desertpilot

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #9 on: 6 May 2022, 10:10 pm »
... it's almost an equilateral triangle. 8.5' center to center, ~9' to listening position.

Thanks Tom.

We all have space limitations in our rooms.  I'm using our "great" room.  The room is huge but locating the listening area was a challenge because of the architecture (Livingroom, dining room and kitchen).  The area of the room I chose is about 15 feet wide and 30 feet deep (although the MLP is in the middle at 15 feet from the front wall).  "They" say mid room seating is not a good choice.  But, it works out for me.

This is probably "overkill" but I wanted vocals to be precisely placed acoustically.  I have several videos of classical music with soloists.  I noted where the soloists were standing and I wanted to duplicate the experience.  I really fussed with the distance between the left and right speakers.  10 feet mid baffle to mid baffle works.  Soprano left of center.  Tenor left of Soprano.  Baritone right of center.  When I listen to my high rez recordings of these pieces, the soloists are right where they are supposed to be.  This was important to me.

Desertpilot

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #10 on: 8 May 2022, 03:07 pm »
I know you are all going to laugh, but for fun I brought out from my bedroom my (satin) eye mask.  Sure, I can close my eyes.  But, adding the mask really made visual input drop to zero while listening to music.  Talk about making the speakers disappear!  I became completely focused on the music.  This had an added benefit.  I already had a really good soundstage and depth.  But, adding the mask made the instruments and vocals seemingly "come alive" in my room.  It enhanced the feeling that a grand piano was in front of me.  Soloists were standing in my room.

I don't want to overstate this.  Reducing visual stimulus improved auditory stimulus.  So there, an inexpensive gear item to consider.

Don't laugh too much.
Marcus

TomS

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #11 on: 8 May 2022, 03:22 pm »

Tyson

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #12 on: 8 May 2022, 04:51 pm »
I know you are all going to laugh, but for fun I brought out from my bedroom my (satin) eye mask.  Sure, I can close my eyes.  But, adding the mask really made visual input drop to zero while listening to music.  Talk about making the speakers disappear!  I became completely focused on the music.  This had an added benefit.  I already had a really good soundstage and depth.  But, adding the mask made the instruments and vocals seemingly "come alive" in my room.  It enhanced the feeling that a grand piano was in front of me.  Soloists were standing in my room.

I don't want to overstate this.  Reducing visual stimulus improved auditory stimulus.  So there, an inexpensive gear item to consider.

Don't laugh too much.
Marcus

No laughing here, this actually makes complete sense to me.  The amount of processing power we have available in our brains at any given time is limited.  Reducing visual input frees up more processing power to be dedicated to hearing.  This also explains why many times systems/music sounds better at night than it does during the day - reduction in ambient light (especially blue light) causes the brain to relax and be more receptive to audio input.

Early B.

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #13 on: 8 May 2022, 05:06 pm »
No laughing here, this actually makes complete sense to me.  The amount of processing power we have available in our brains at any given time is limited.  Reducing visual input frees up more processing power to be dedicated to hearing.  This also explains why many times systems/music sounds better at night than it does during the day - reduction in ambient light (especially blue light) causes the brain to relax and be more receptive to audio input.

Yeah, darkness is associated with nighttime when we naturally relax. Anyone live in a metro area and then visit the country where it's quieter with no streetlights so it's darker at night and you sleep better? The eye mask mimics this experience, and this relaxation allows you to focus better on the music. It's actually a good idea. Like TomS, I also listen with the lights dimmed, but next time I'll try it with all lights off.

   

Bingenito

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #14 on: 8 May 2022, 08:33 pm »
The mask did give me a good laugh :lol:. Your family must be nicer than mine because I have to say that if I was sitting in the dark with a blindfold on cranking tunes someone would feel compelled to share the **** out of me.

Saturn94

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #15 on: 9 May 2022, 12:34 am »

I don't want to overstate this.  Reducing visual stimulus improved auditory stimulus.  So there, an inexpensive gear item to consider.

Don't laugh too much.
Marcus

No laughing here.  I noticed this a long time ago.  My favorite time to listen is at night, lights out, and no one else home. 😁

Desertpilot

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #16 on: 9 May 2022, 11:19 pm »
I love everyone here which is why I keep posting threads to engage all of you.  This morning, I played (in multi channel surround), Ståle Kleiberg: "Concertos" and wore my eye mask.  2L produced the music and they are very strong proponents of high resolution surround sound.  My rear surround speakers got quite a workout.  The X3s, of course are the stars of the show.  I truly enjoyed every moment of listening to this album.  They X3s are exceptional reproducing the Violin, Cello and Viola plus orchestra.

I asked my wife to snap a photo of me in my mask so I could email it to my sons.  They, of course, will get a great laugh over their Dad.

Enjoy.  Marcus




Edit:  Sorry, can't get the photo straight.

RonN5

Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #17 on: 9 May 2022, 11:51 pm »
System Improvement Suggestion:

Replace the sleep mask with very dark Blues Brothers sunglasses...then cut and paste a new photo.... :lol:

Desertpilot

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #18 on: 10 May 2022, 02:53 am »
System Improvement Suggestion:

Replace the sleep mask with very dark Blues Brothers sunglasses...then cut and paste a new photo.... :lol:

That's why I love it here.  Always better gear suggestions!

Tangram

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Re: Conversation Starter: Distance between MLP and Speakers
« Reply #19 on: 12 May 2022, 12:07 am »
I know you are all going to laugh, but for fun I brought out from my bedroom my (satin) eye mask.  Sure, I can close my eyes.  But, adding the mask really made visual input drop to zero while listening to music.  Talk about making the speakers disappear!  I became completely focused on the music.  This had an added benefit.  I already had a really good soundstage and depth.  But, adding the mask made the instruments and vocals seemingly "come alive" in my room.  It enhanced the feeling that a grand piano was in front of me.  Soloists were standing in my room.

I don't want to overstate this.  Reducing visual stimulus improved auditory stimulus.  So there, an inexpensive gear item to consider.

Don't laugh too much.
Marcus

I couldn't agree more with this. I have a windowless basement man cave so I just turn off the lights. If, however, the lights need to be on, staring at a point on the wall (in my case, one of the corners of the blocks that makes up the skyline diffuser behind my speakers), that works too.