[rcatch]

Allow me to borrow your thread and introduce myself as I have a very similar experience.

Like you I stumbled onto New Record Day’s 5 speakers shootout video and immediately knew that is the end game sound I am looking for. Although I saw Guttenburg’s video before but that never raised much interest until now. So I watched all the long interview videos with Clayton I can find and came here to catch up.

I’ve been a music lover since early age with my dad playing music all the time. But was never an audiophile until listened to a demo at a local highend store while shopping for my upgrades for the new home. Eventually settled on paradigm signature speakers and conrad johnson pre/power with a naim cdp. And I’ve stopped searching and lived with music for over 20 years. I have to admit that I didn’t know much in terms of what to look for audiophile quality at the time.

So When I moved from overseas last May and looking for an end game setup I made mistakes alone the way. First I had my eyes set on the Magnepan .7 and Hegel 390 because that seems to be what’s hot and bang for buck. Soon I got the Hegel and lived without speakers for a few months. Until one day After 5 months of waiting and no speakers on the horizon(missing a key parts just for  the .7 model) I changed it to 1.7i even though the standard wait time is 10 weeks. My wife suggested that I should just get something available to enjoy music right away and that was an eye opener. So I immediately got a Falcon 3/5a gold badge because the series is a legend from what I’ve been read. It didn’t impress me much with the promise of vocal magic. So 2 months later tried the KLH model 5 and although it’s better but I can’t stand the loss of details of singer’s emotion that often moves me. So that’s gone.

Now over 3 months later with no sight of magnepan, and more important is I just don’t believe it will satisfy my needs as the endgame sound(I auditioned before ordering) now. So all this time I kept educating myself and realizing what I care about the most. So before Spatial my eye was set on an old model of Audio Note speakers with a similar used price as the Spatial Xs.

What sold me on the Spatial is the non box sound and forgiving room interaction as I don’t think room treatment will get wife’s approval. So I haven’t even auditioned in person and all are my wishful thinking. I chose X4 as I mostly listen to slow pop jazz songs so vocal is what I care the most than bass. Also had me put on the waiting list for Don Sachs integrated which I will be comparing with the Hegel and one of them will leave. For dac I am looking for close to analog characters from streaming. And right now I am very intrigued by SW1X after looking at some other brands.

What I found with my ifi zen stream and iDSD signature (for headphone) is that streaming quality is very crucial  and I haven’t dive much in that area. So the X4 will be here first and I will live it with the Hegel until Don’s amp which will be sometime in fall. Hope X4 will turn out to be what I expect an endgame sound so then I can tackle dac/streamer/wire/power conditioning etc. I will be happy if the setup will get me close to analog and live sound with vocal density so then I can just forget about the gear and analyzing. I found myself often listening for many hours if the songs are enjoyable.

Sorry for the long post.

[Tyson]

Welcome rcatch - I think the Spatials excel at vocal/jazz/classical in a way that most other speakers just can't touch.  Part of it is the OB design.  But the other part is the first rate design that's gone into them as well as very high quality parts used throughout.  The downside of really great drivers and parts is that they take a long time to burn in, so the speakers might sound bright and rough at first, and will even go through phases where the sound dark and veiled.   My advice is to get 100 hours on them as quickly as possible and don't judge them too much before the 100 hour mark.  After that, I am sure you will be in love

[rcatch]

Thanks Tyson!  That’s very encouraging to hear. Vocal performance is something I wasn’t seeing touched upon much. It’s what I care the most along with live and open true to source quality while dynamics and imaging weren’t matter as much with my style of music. While researching and stumbled on to Audio Notes and its magic, I realized that much of the highend or close to source sound is attributed to high quality parts and as little as possible signal path.

Funny yesterday I just told my wife that the X4 needs probably 500 hours of break in. So we calculated about 3 months if 5 hours/day:)

[abomwell]

I have the X5's and love them. I listen mostly to orchestral classical music. My subwoofer volume control is set at the uppermost dot. My 15' square room is well treated with floor to  ceiling corner  bass traps and absorption at first reflection locations and a full carpet. I also use automatic room correction. Without the room correction I'd need to turn down the bass volume to offset a large room induced 40 Hz peak. That would result in weakened bass up to where the mid-woofer takes over. But the room correction lops off that peak, allows a higher bass volume setting which results in a smoother overall bass. Often when large bass peaks are removed the perception is that the bass is too weak, so the automatic correction compensates and boosts the overall bass by 4dB after lopping off the peaks. The result is a balanced and natural sounding bass.

Al

[jnschneyer]

Hi, Al,

This is one of the concerns I had, or at least one of the things I was wondering about, regarding the X5s, how simply raising or lowering the volume on the powered woofers would affect the quality of the bass, whether controlling bass output by adjusting the decibel level would have an adverse effect, going in either direction, on the musicality of the bass and its integration with the other drivers.  Sorry.  Long sentence.  Hope it was clear.  The X5s I heard were barely out of the womb - I think they had 10 hours on them - and the bass from them, while impressively extended, was a bit boomy and seemed to ride under the mids and highs rather than join in with it, like oxpeckers on the back of a hippo.  This was due in part, no doubt, to the room, probably in part to not being broken in, and in part to my being a nitwit and not thinking to just turn them down.  I was heartened to hear you say you get balanced, natural-sounding bass.  I listen primarily to jazz (west coast, hard bop, for whatever those sadly insufficient categories are worth) and classical (smaller ensemble, symphonic, and a lot of opera), neither of which are terribly demanding in terms of outright bass power, but bass is about more than just the depth and extension of a given note.  Done right, it both supports and informs the music with texture and solidity and richness, fills it out, puts meat on its bones, pick your abstraction or metaphor.  This is why I wondered if simply turning the bass down would rob the music of some of that essential underpinning and nourishment, or if turning it up would overwhelm it, make it fat.  It seems you've solved that problem with room correction and treatment.  While I'm amenable to both, I have neither and am loathe to think I would need both to make the X5s, or any speaker, work.  I suppose you have to pick your poison.  You either live with the bass as it's manipulated by your components, your passive speakers, and your room, and call it a day, or you take the offensive and get bass you can at least somewhat self-determine via a powered woofer and room correction.  It's a conundrum.  I'd like to think I could set the X5s up in my room and, turning them up or down as needed, have good, tuneful, genre appropriate bass, without any other muss or fuss.  Probably a pipe dream, but I'd sure like to know if anyone has had just that experience.  Thanks.

Josh     

[abomwell]

Hi Josh,

I think you answered some of your own questions. But a couple things I might point out is that smooth bass tends to also be tight bass because peaks,  in particular, also affect the time domain resulting in loose and inarticulate bass. Also, when we hear a balanced chord, for example played by a symphony orchestra, we are hearing what one could describe as a pyramid of sound where the bass instruments are louder than the tenor instruments. The tenor instruments are louder than the alto instruments which in turn are louder than the soprano instruments. We hear this as a balanced chord but one could see, if measured, the configuration of a pyramid. Properly balanced bass also affects the perceived brightness of the sound. If the bass is too weak to support the upper voicings the overall sound will be perceived as bright and out of balance.

All domestic sized rooms have their way with bass from any loudspeaker. Dipoles are more forgiving of room related bass problems due to lateral cancellation. But bass problems still exist and have to be dealt with one way or another. Proper speaker positioning, bass traps, EQ, the use of randomly positioned multiple subwoofers are but some ways to help control bass. You are on target, in my opinion, to focus your attention on the bass.

Al

[jnschneyer]

Hi, Al,

I hate it when I answer my own questions.  I'm so little inclined to listen to myself.  Your description of the pyramid of sound is really interesting and very apt.  Bass always seems foundational, and it's normal to think in terms of lowest to highest in a kind of stack, but I never thought of each section working its way up a pyramid in terms of frequency and the decibel of a given frequency.  I've done quite a lot of ensemble and choral singing, and it's not something I ever really thought of when performing, but the director or conductor is forever managing the different sections, both voice and instrumental, and I assume the need for that management (among other things) is in part due to that inherent decibel differences of the various voices and instruments.  Not just the native power of a particular person's voice, but of the volume native to a particular frequency.  It makes the ability to communicate that as a seamless, coherent chord or overall sound via loudspeakers that much more remarkable.  I know my room needs some treatment, and I suppose I'll have to take heart and explore the world of EQ as well.  Onward and upward.  Thanks again.

Josh     

[morganc]

Thanks Tyson!  That’s very encouraging to hear. Vocal performance is something I wasn’t seeing touched upon much. It’s what I care the most along with live and open true to source quality while dynamics and imaging weren’t matter as much with my style of music. While researching and stumbled on to Audio Notes and its magic, I realized that much of the highend or close to source sound is attributed to high quality parts and as little as possible signal path.

Funny yesterday I just told my wife that the X4 needs probably 500 hours of break in. So we calculated about 3 months if 5 hours/day:)

Spatials + Tubes + Jazz/Vocals = 👌🏻