AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Chops on 21 Sep 2015, 05:30 am
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After two years of trying other speakers, I finally got around to reinserting these back into the system. There's just something about them that keeps my coming back to them. The articulate bass, the natural vocals, the silky smooth treble, the deep and wide sound stage, these X-Statik's have it.
I bought these guys brand new almost 8 years ago and still love the sound of them. I'm still debating whether or not I should do the resistor and cap upgrade that Danny offers for the crossovers as my X-Statik's are still bone stock. I guess I'm afraid that the upgrades might make them too bright on the top end. Hmm... :scratch:
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v118/p1486774009-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v83/p1486774022-5.jpg)
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Is that the tweeter that's in the Encores? If so, I have the upgrades.
I don't detect anything too bright. They're very talented tweeters, but never bad on the ears. I have power conditioning too. It looks like you may, so you probably have minimal fatigue that could come from appropriate tweeter levels on systems that don't.
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The Sonicap and Mills upgrade did not make mine brighter. It just took all the characteristics you mentioned to another level.
Well worth the money IMHO.
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Is that the tweeter that's in the Encores? If so, I have the upgrades.
Same as the X LS Encores (Peerless T2SG tweeter), different from the X LS Classics.
i don't think you'l lfind the resistors/caps upgrade bright either. You'll find you'll get more resolution in the mids and highs . Everything will be a bit cleaner,
I'd also seriously consider the no res, wire, and tube connectors, they'll all make improvements. I don't know what AV123 used for internal wire, but I've used the copper Danny sells in all my projects and it is very good
-jay
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I have built 5 pairs of the Encores and have upgraded all the crossovers. What I find sounds the. Best is to upgrade the inductors as well as the caps and resistors, then point to point wire everything (don't even use the circuit board) and finally add bypass caps to both circuits.
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The Encore tweeters are not bright and cannot be made so with the upgrades mentioned.
The upgraded crossovers just give you more clarity compared to the stock crossover which in my opinion have a little haze to the sound.
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss207/corndog642/X-Statik%20Upgrades/IMG_8606_zps9e5a81fe.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss207/corndog642/X-Statik%20Upgrades/IMG_8605_zps128e340e.jpg)
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss207/corndog642/X-Statik%20Upgrades/IMG_4734.jpg)
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Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it.
I think for now, I'll just do the recommended crossover upgrades (resistors and caps). That should make the biggest improvement over anything else, including wiring or no-res. The binding posts on mine look like WBT, but kind of doubt they are. The inductors on the stock crossover are rather chunky and of good quality to begin with. I don't know that there would be any improvements worth the cost by upgrading them.
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v58/p1486774327-5.jpg)
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I can also confirm what others have said about the cap and resistor upgrade. It will not change the frequency response or cause any added brightness at all. The effect is reduced smearing and more space between notes. This improves clarity and detail levels as well.
The wire and tube connectors are also a considerable upgrade with across the board improvements.
Your bass response my tighten up and your imaging may improve if you remove those hockey pucks from under them and let those floor spikes poke through to the solid floor below the carpet.
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I can also confirm what others have said about the cap and resistor upgrade. It will not change the frequency response or cause any added brightness at all. The effect is reduced smearing and more space between notes. This improves clarity and detail levels as well.
The wire and tube connectors are also a considerable upgrade with across the board improvements.
Your bass response my tighten up and your imaging may improve if you remove those hockey pucks from under them and let those floor spikes poke through to the solid floor below the carpet.
Hello Danny!
For starters, the hockey pucks are long gone. :thumb: I originally had them there for the Monitor Audio BX6's because their spikes are so short, they didn't reach the solid floor. The speakers kind of just floated on the carpet. Honestly, I don't know why I put them under the X-Statik's.
I'll definitely do the resistor and cap upgrade soon. These speakers already sound much better now than they ever have with my past systems. I mean, they sound really good! It will be neat to hear the crossover improvements.
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Danny, I think I'm ready to put in the order for the x-over upgrades. I don't like procrastinating. LOL I also don't see the upgrade as an individual purchase on your site.
Also, just curious if anyone has purchased a second set of T26SG tweeters, cross them over much higher and install them on the rear of the X-Statik's to make the top end truly dipolar. To me, it would make sense since the mids radiate front and rear.
Many thanks in advance!
BTW, nothing in my system is the same except for the Nak cassette deck and Technics TT since the last time I listened to these speakers. I have been listening to them almost all day today. With the "new" preamp, amp, digital front end, power, speaker and interconnect cables, these X-Statik's sound absolutely amazing! So big, so wide, so dynamic, so natural, so effortless. Only until now, I never really realized what these speakers were capable of over the past 8 years. And I thought they sounded good before! This is exactly why I have finally decided to take the plunge and do the x-over upgrades. It can only get better from here! Simply wow!
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Danny, I think I'm ready to put in the order for the x-over upgrades. I don't like procrastinating. LOL I also don't see the upgrade as an individual purchase on your site.
I have you covered. Just give me a call or order everything. 940-592-3400
Also, just curious if anyone has purchased a second set of T26SG tweeters, cross them over much higher and install them on the rear of the X-Statik's to make the top end truly dipolar. To me, it would make sense since the mids radiate front and rear.
Many thanks in advance!
That would be tricky. If the time alignment isn't just right you still get some phase cancellation that can be worse than not having one at all. You'd also have to do that while not effecting the impedance and the crossover used on the front tweeter. Not so easy. It needs to be designed that way from the beginning and not added on later.
BTW, nothing in my system is the same except for the Nak cassette deck and Technics TT since the last time I listened to these speakers. I have been listening to them almost all day today. With the "new" preamp, amp, digital front end, power, speaker and interconnect cables, these X-Statik's sound absolutely amazing! So big, so wide, so dynamic, so natural, so effortless. Only until now, I never really realized what these speakers were capable of over the past 8 years. And I thought they sounded good before! This is exactly why I have finally decided to take the plunge and do the x-over upgrades. It can only get better from here! Simply wow!
You should hear them with some of the best electronics in the world hooked up to them. These speakers can really deliver.
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I have you covered. Just give me a call or order everything. 940-592-3400
That would be tricky. If the time alignment isn't just right you still get some phase cancellation that can be worse than not having one at all. You'd also have to do that while not effecting the impedance and the crossover used on the front tweeter. Not so easy. It needs to be designed that way from the beginning and not added on later.
You should hear them with some of the best electronics in the world hooked up to them. These speakers can really deliver.
Thanks Danny! It was great finally getting to actually talk to you after all these years. I look forward to getting these speakers tweaked with those crossover upgrades!
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Finally, after 7+ years of owning these speakers, I've just now got around to doing the crossover upgrades. They've been running for the past 3 hours now with the new caps and resistors. And let me tell ya, that first hour was rather lack-luster. Treble was a bit tizzy, fuzzy and a little bright, and the midrange was a bit cupped/hollow sounding. Some of that was probably also due to the amp and preamp warming back up. What I can say now though is that I have never heard these speakers sound this good.
You guys already know what these upgrades do for the sound, so I won't sit here and repeat what's already been said. However, I have noticed on three different, very well known albums of mine, I've been hearing new details in the music. Stuff that I never even knew was there before. This is amazing! I can only imagine that it'll possibly get better over the next few days/weeks.
Anyway, I'll post a few pics later tomorrow. The server my pics are on seem to be updating at the moment and won't let me in. :duh:
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The Zenfolio server is still acting up, so I can only get to a few pics. Here's a couple anyway...
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1515231331-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1515231625-5.jpg)
Hey corndog71, I noticed you upgraded that big 56uF cap in the midrange as well. Seems like a good idea being it's in the midrange section. I also notice that the 12uF in that same section isn't.
Danny... Any particular reason why you don't offer an upgrade for the 56uF cap but you do for the 12uF?
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Hey corndog71, I noticed you upgraded that big 56uF cap in the midrange as well. Seems like a good idea being it's in the midrange section. I also notice that the 12uF in that same section isn't.
Danny... Any particular reason why you don't offer an upgrade for the 56uF cap but you do for the 12uF?
?...
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I didn't replace that middle 12uF because it's not in series with the mids. Going all sonicap on the big mid cap wasnt in my budget so I opted for a 20uf Sonicap with a pair of Erse 18uF caps as well as a 0.1uF Sonicap Platinum bypass.
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I didn't replace that middle 12uF because it's not in series with the mids. Going all sonicap on the big mid cap wasnt in my budget so I opted for a 20uf Sonicap with a pair of Erse 18uF caps as well as a 0.1uF Sonicap Platinum bypass.
Even if it isn't in series with the midrange, there must be a reason why Danny chose to upgrade that cap vs the 56uF cap. Unless it's just all down to price.
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Something else I noticed and forgot to mention, the original 22uF in the crossover is replaced with a 20.48uF cap. I wonder what the significance of that was, or it's just so minor that it doesn't really matter?
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Danny... Any particular reason why you don't offer an upgrade for the 56uF cap but you do for the 12uF?
You can use a pair of 27uF Sonicaps to replace it. The cost of that is $80 per speaker. It will make a difference in the mids, but it will cost you $160 plus shipping.
Even if it isn't in series with the midrange, there must be a reason why Danny chose to upgrade that cap vs the 56uF cap. Unless it's just all down to price.
Yep, just trying to give you the most bang for the buck.
Something else I noticed and forgot to mention, the original 22uF in the crossover is replaced with a 20.48uF cap. I wonder what the significance of that was, or it's just so minor that it doesn't really matter?
It's the second cap inline with the tweeter. The difference is very fractional. It is more important that the left and right speakers caps match. Typical cap values can be +/-5%. The Sonicaps are matched to less than .5%.
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You can use a pair of 27uF Sonicaps to replace it. The cost of that is $80 per speaker. It will make a difference in the mids, but it will cost you $160 plus shipping.
Yep, just trying to give you the most bang for the buck.
It's the second cap inline with the tweeter. The difference is very fractional. It is more important that the left and right speakers caps match. Typical cap values can be +/-5%. The Sonicaps are matched to less than .5%.
Thanks for all of the great answers, Danny.
I am very interested in upgrading that 56uF cap in the midrange. I suppose there would be (or should be) a another small bypass cap in there as well, correct? Also, what would be your take on the sonic improvements on that particular cap upgrade? Just more of the same from the other upgrades already performed?
Thanks again!
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Thanks for all of the great answers, Danny.
I am very interested in upgrading that 56uF cap in the midrange. I suppose there would be (or should be) a another small bypass cap in there as well, correct? Also, what would be your take on the sonic improvements on that particular cap upgrade? Just more of the same from the other upgrades already performed?
Thanks again!
There is already a by-pass cap on the 56uF value. It is the small yellow cap. You can also upgrade it to a Sonicap.
Upgrading to the Sonicaps will improve the clarity of the mids. There is no question about it.
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Chops,
have you done the tube connectors/no rez upgrades as well ? If not, for slightly less $ as those 4 27uF sonic caps will run you, you could get a couple sheets of no rez and a set of tube connectors, I bet you'll be surprised at the diff they make. If you go with the tube connectors at some point, remember to order a couple extra male ends for your speaker cables.
I don't know what AV123 put inside the cabinets (if anything ?), but it may also be worth while if/when n you line the cabinets with no rez to try adding 1 - 1.5 oz of acousti Stuff behind each driver . Fluff it up and cover the rear wall evenly. You can get it a PE or Amazon
Just some sugggestions
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There is already a by-pass cap on the 56uF value. It is the small yellow cap. You can also upgrade it to a Sonicap.
Upgrading to the Sonicaps will improve the clarity of the mids. There is no question about it.
Yeah, if I'm going to upgrade the 56uF cap, I might as well upgrade that bypass cap while I'm at it. No point in cutting corners. :green:
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Chops,
have you done the tube connectors/no rez upgrades as well ? If not, for slightly less $ as those 4 27uF sonic caps will run you, you could get a couple sheets of no rez and a set of tube connectors, I bet you'll be surprised at the diff they make. If you go with the tube connectors at some point, remember to order a couple extra male ends for your speaker cables.
I don't know what AV123 put inside the cabinets (if anything ?), but it may also be worth while if/when n you line the cabinets with no rez to try adding 1 - 1.5 oz of acousti Stuff behind each driver . Fluff it up and cover the rear wall evenly. You can get it a PE or Amazon
Just some sugggestions
I plan on doing the No-Rez, just have to wait a little bit for funds to roll in.
Speaking of No-Rez, it looks like it eats up a bit of air space, so I was also already thinking about adding some stuffing to help regain that air space. Danny... Your thoughts on this?
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I plan on doing the No-Rez, just have to wait a little bit for funds to roll in.
Speaking of No-Rez, it looks like it eats up a bit of air space, so I was also already thinking about adding some stuffing to help regain that air space. Danny... Your thoughts on this?
The No Rez is air space neutral. While the damper does take up some air space, the foam slows down air flow in the box and makes it act like it is a larger air space.
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The No Rez is air space neutral. While the damper does take up some air space, the foam slows down air flow in the box and makes it act like it is a larger air space.
Very good to know. Thanks again Danny!
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Just ordered the four 27 uF caps, two bypass caps and two sheets of No-Rez. I'm going to be busy next weekend (not this coming weekend)! :thumb:
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Just ordered the four 27 uF caps, two bypass caps and two sheets of No-Rez. I'm going to be busy next weekend (not this coming weekend)! :thumb:
Sounds like another convert for upgrading the X-Series crossovers. Have fun, both fixin & listenin :thumb:
Mike
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Sounds like another convert for upgrading the X-Series crossovers. Have fun, both fixin & listenin :thumb:
Mike
Yeah, I figure if I've already done the standard crossover mods that Danny offers, I might as well go the rest of the way and replace the last big cap, with two physically bigger caps! LOL And since I'll have the X-Statik's open again, might as well do the No-Rez while I'm in there.
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Hello fellas, Have had my X-Statics 10yrs or so. Did the no-rez, connectors and had Danny build me some crossovers with all the best couple years back. They have been in the closet ever since as I found some ls-6 cabinets and built those, those too have all the goodies. After all this talk I dug my X-Statics out of the closet the other day and plugged them in. Just as I remember them and have kept them. Open, spacious beautiful sounding. Got to admit they look cool too! Have fun and enjoy yours.
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Hello fellas, Have had my X-Statics 10yrs or so. Did the no-rez, connectors and had Danny build me some crossovers with all the best couple years back. They have been in the closet ever since as I found some ls-6 cabinets and built those, those too have all the goodies. After all this talk I dug my X-Statics out of the closet the other day and plugged them in. Just as I remember them and have kept them. Open, spacious beautiful sounding. Got to admit they look cool too! Have fun and enjoy yours.
10 years? You must have 2 year pre-production models. :lol: :green: :wink:
I know what you mean though. No matter what speakers I try or buy, I always come back to these in the end.
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I got my box-o-goodies from Danny yesterday, including (4) 27 uF Sonicaps, (2) tiny bypass Sonicaps, and (2) sheets of No-Rez.
I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to install those two massive caps on the crossovers. They're nearly twice the size of the original 56 uF cap that's on there. I guess it would be alright to rest the top cap over on top of the inductor next to it.
Then there's the chore of having to remove the two bass drivers and all of that glued in felt to install the No-Rez. I have a feeling I'm going to have a very long, busy day tomorrow.
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I have the speakers pulled all apart at the moment... Well, one of them anyway. Man, that glued in felt is a royal PITA to remove! I'm using a puddy knife to scrape the stuff off, but there's no way all of it is going to get removed. It's impossible. At this rate, it's going to take all day just to do this one speaker. I'm not looking forward to installing the No-Rez either. That'll probably be a pain also.
Well, back to the ole' grind...
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I'm not looking forward to installing the No-Rez either. That'll probably be a pain also.
IF you can get the cabinet sides clean, the No Rez is simply to install since it has a good adhesive. If not, you might have to use something like Liquid Nails.
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I have the speakers pulled all apart at the moment... Well, one of them anyway. Man, that glued in felt is a royal PITA to remove! I'm using a puddy knife to scrape the stuff off, but there's no way all of it is going to get removed. It's impossible. At this rate, it's going to take all day just to do this one speaker. I'm not looking forward to installing the No-Rez either. That'll probably be a pain also.
Well, back to the ole' grind...
Scott is right. Installing the No Rez is real easy once you get all of that glue off the walls.
I've been there too. I know it is a pain to get all that cleaned off, but it is worth it.
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That was a long, annoying 12 hours of work. My finger tips have multiple cuts from that nasty razor sharp glue as well as my knuckles from scraping against it. And at the end, I ran a little short on the No-Rez. The bottom section where the crossover is, I had to peace it together with slightly smaller pieces on the sides and two 2" thin pieces for the front panel.
The crossovers went good though. I used some duct seal under the stack-o-caps to help stabilize them as well as a couple of zip-ties.
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v30/p1603051233-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v31/p1603051631-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v15/p1603050654-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v90/p1603050651-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v155/p1603696473-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v15/p1603696439-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v29/p1603696437-5.jpg)
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Looking good.
Now add in a little loose poly fil or fiberglass insulation to the back half of the box.
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Looking good.
Now add in a little loose poly fil or fiberglass insulation to the back half of the box.
Earlier you said that extra poly wasn't needed with the open-cell foam of the No-Rez. :scratch:
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Earlier you said that extra poly wasn't needed with the open-cell foam of the No-Rez. :scratch:
I was thinking that there was some in there already that you'd put back. I guess the felt was all there was in that model.
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So, essentially I have open these things again and put some poly in them?
If so, it's not something I'm going to rush out and do anytime soon.
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Absolutely not! Just pull the upper sealed woofer and stuff in some polyfil. It's a 5 minute job or less.
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Okay, that sounds good. Thanks for the tip!
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Good thing my girlfriend is into crafts and such. She happily donated to the cause. :wine:
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v47/p1604955613-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v75/p1604955643-5.jpg)
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So, essentially I have open these things again and put some poly in them?
If so, it's not something I'm going to rush out and do anytime soon.
Experiment wit it. Just pull a woofer out and slide some in right behind the woofers and hear what the effect is.
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Experiment wit it. Just pull a woofer out and slide some in right behind the woofers and hear what the effect is.
I may try adding a little more in a few days or so. The bass is sounding pretty darn good right now. It might have lost just a tad bit of extension, but if it did, not by much, hence why I'll probably play around some more poly in a few days. I just want to sit, relax and enjoy some music before going back to work tomorrow.
Speaking of sounding good, I think those huge Sonicaps are starting to come around already. The midrange was sounding a little "boxy" and closed in last night and this morning, but all of that has gone away in the past couple hours of listening to some U2 (Achtung Baby, All That You Can't Leave Behind, & now Joshua Tree). I'm sure this is just the beginning of goodness that's to come. Probably a couple of weeks I imagine before they really settle in.
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go back and read post 21 , Try the Acusta stuff (that's why I mentioned it before you started this ) :lol:
Just make sure you pull it apart and fluff it up real nice
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go back and read post 21 , Try the Acusta stuff (that's why I mentioned it before you started this ) :lol:
Just make sure you pull it apart and fluff it up real nice
Well, even though it's not Acousta-Stuf Polyfill, it's still lightly fluffed in the enclosures. It's not packed in there or anything. :wink:
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Wow, didn't realize it's going on 3 years since I did these upgrades. It's a shame that about a month after the last post here, I moved on to a pair of Martin Logan SL3's for a while, then a couple other speakers. I never really gave these upgraded X-Statik's a chance to break-in and shine.
But here I am with them back in my system yet again (funny how that always happens with these speakers) and happier than ever. Now focusing on building a pair of H-frame OB's to go along with them, four 12" drivers per side.