Next generation dac?

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MetalAudio

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Next generation dac?
« on: 25 Aug 2023, 08:06 pm »
Is there a plan to develop the next generation of dac, such as BDA-4? As much as I like the BDA 3 I feel like it does not compete with higher-end dacs out there..

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #1 on: 25 Aug 2023, 08:29 pm »
Hi MetalAudio - no plans on that front.

james

GlennDog

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #2 on: 26 Aug 2023, 12:07 am »
Is there a plan to develop the next generation of dac, such as BDA-4? As much as I like the BDA 3 I feel like it does not compete with higher-end dacs out there. . . .

been here on AC for a while, but definitely a Bryston newbie . . . aka I know next to nothing about the company

What would be considered as a higher end DAC . . . TIA

MetalAudio

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #3 on: 26 Aug 2023, 01:12 am »
been here on AC for a while, but definitely a Bryston newbie . . . aka I know next to nothing about the company

What would be considered as a higher end DAC . . . TIA

There are many - check out this list for example:

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/hfa-awards/

In my system I heard the Denafrips Terminator Plus and it was clearly better than the Bryston DAC.

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #4 on: 26 Aug 2023, 11:53 am »





dubkarma

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #5 on: 26 Aug 2023, 04:04 pm »
There are many - check out this list for example:

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/hfa-awards/

In my system I heard the Denafrips Terminator Plus and it was clearly better than the Bryston DAC.

In fairness, is it not the case that the Denafrips Terminator Plus DAC costs about double the price of a Bryston BDA-3?
A quick look on the internet suggests that the Denafrips retails for around CAN$10K.

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #6 on: 26 Aug 2023, 07:09 pm »
Hi Folks

I would ask you to compare the measured performance of the Bryston BDA-3 DAC.
I will put it up against any DAC out there regardless of price.

Here is a measurement made by Stereophile.









« Last Edit: 27 Aug 2023, 10:44 am by James Tanner »

R. Daneel

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #7 on: 31 Aug 2023, 03:18 pm »
There are many - check out this list for example:

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/hfa-awards/

In my system I heard the Denafrips Terminator Plus and it was clearly better than the Bryston DAC.

Hello!

In what way was it better? The word "better" is hardly descriptive enough to communicate what you think of the sound.

Cheers - Antun

R. Daneel

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #8 on: 31 Aug 2023, 04:41 pm »
Hi Folks

I would ask you to compare the measured performance of the Bryston BDA-3 DAC.
I will put it up against any DAC out there regardless of price.

Here is a measurement made by Stereophile.









Hi James!

You and I have had our disagreements so you might be surprised if I backed you up on this one! 😉

A few years ago, I had a friend come to my house and listen to some music on my system. Now, he is a professional musician and a very successful singer-songwriter in my country but he’s not much of a critical listener. However, his colleague IS, and it just so happens that he owns a major recording studio here, recognised for routinely excellent production quality. Some well-known artists have made their records there. This guy was adamant on purchasing the BDA-2 from me. I think he was not very happy when I wouldn’t let it go – I guess famous folks think they can get whatever they want. Now, I know they have some pretty amazing stuff in that studio, including very expensive A/D and D/A convertors from different companies so it was interesting to hear him say the BDA-2 was “seemingly truer to life” than what he was used to hearing and that if I’ll give him a few minutes, he’ll go to the nearest ATM and pay me. I don’t think he would have used it for tracking because it’s only two-channel but mastering might be a good application for it and it does have an AES input which is probably what they use in studios.

I have had the BDA-2 for years. In fact, when I got it, it had just come out and the BDA-1 was still in production at that time. While I have had some problems with the power ON/OFF sequence, it was replaced by the distributor and all is well. I must also say that there seems to be a great “synergy” (for a lack of a better word) with the BHA-1 headphone amplifier. I assume it has to do with the sane and proven techniques used to design all your devices.

As for the never-ending story of finding something “better”, those who please can embellish themselves and there are certainly enough companies that will be more than happy to take your money with a promise that “better” is exactly what you’re getting. Unless, of course, you’re not. To be quite frank, if you look at a D/A convertor as a device to convert digital data into an analogue waveform and you expect it to do its job as accurately as possible – or, in audiophile terms, to put music first – then you could spend a great deal more and not get better than what the Bryston offers. If, on the other hand, you’re looking for romanticism and impressionism in your sound, you may want to choose something else.

Cheers - Antun

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #9 on: 31 Aug 2023, 05:21 pm »
I agree Antun - our mantra has always been the 'linearity of the waveform' :thumb:

james

veloceleste

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #10 on: 31 Aug 2023, 07:14 pm »
Hi James,
Do have an idea about how long a dac card for the BP173 will be available?
Thanks!

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #11 on: 31 Aug 2023, 09:30 pm »
Hi

I would think for sometime as it is relatively new product.

james

MetalAudio

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #12 on: 2 Sep 2023, 01:09 am »
Hello!

In what way was it better? The word "better" is hardly descriptive enough to communicate what you think of the sound.

Cheers - Antun

More details, better layering and hearing details in the background, airiness, vocals sound more natural, etc.

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #13 on: 2 Sep 2023, 12:33 pm »
More details, better layering and hearing details in the background, airiness, vocals sound more natural, etc.

Hi Folks

Ok - so then all I would ask is show me in their measurements what accounts for the subjective improvement in these areas.

james

Blueshound

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #14 on: 3 Sep 2023, 06:47 am »
I'm a BDA3 user, along with a pair of Model T actives. I had used the BDA3 for over a year, with files streamed to it via the streaming capability of an OPPO BD player. As a life long industry guy, I'm a bit embarrassed to say that it never occurred to me that the streaming component would have as much to say for or against the ultimate listening quality, given a very good and versatile DAC.

For reasons that I don't recall, I ordered a BDP3. I was amazed at the net sound quality improvement of the pairing of the BDP3 into the BDA3, as compared to the OPPO. (I should have known better than to take anything in the signal chain for granted. Even old dogs can learn new tricks!).

It was as if I had gotten new glasses, and was seeing the yellow brick road in full focus for the first time. Most subjective aspects of the listening experience were better - more dynamic, full  bodied, better dynamic slam, improved inner details. I hadn't expected much of a difference in sound quality. (Almost all of my use of digital music files  is downloaded HD or rips from CDs and concert DVDs.)

I don't know what the OP is streaming from, but I can tell anyone who's interested that the streaming component matters as well. If he's comparing DACs in exactly the same system, with all else remaining constant, then my comments may not apply.Not sure this furthers the conversation.

Brian

R. Daneel

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #15 on: 4 Sep 2023, 01:04 pm »
More details, better layering and hearing details in the background, airiness, vocals sound more natural, etc.

What if someone else says "no, I heard the exact opposite"? See, your opinion makes sense - to you - not necessarily to someone else. That is why I asked what is "better".

Also, one needs to be very careful when assessing what sounds natural. I am sorry to say, but even professional reviewers make a cardinal mistake by thinking they're somehow born with an instict to be able to say with certainty if a piano sounds natural. Even academically educated pianists sometimes cannot do that. People can't even tell a difference between a software instrument and a real acoustic instrument!

It isn't hard but it does take time and patience. When people ask me what they should buy and if this new A thing is better than the B thing, I tell them to go out and listen to music, everything from a singer on the street corner to a symphony orchestra playing in an opera house. The experience is rewarding. Do that and I guarantee you'll know more than 95% of people who write those dreadful articles in HIFI magazines and make useless videos on YT.

Cheers - Antun

mrhyfy

Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #16 on: 4 Sep 2023, 03:39 pm »
What if someone else says "no, I heard the exact opposite"? See, your opinion makes sense - to you - not necessarily to someone else. That is why I asked what is "better".

Also, one needs to be very careful when assessing what sounds natural. I am sorry to say, but even professional reviewers make a cardinal mistake by thinking they're somehow born with an instict to be able to say with certainty if a piano sounds natural. Even academically educated pianists sometimes cannot do that. People can't even tell a difference between a software instrument and a real acoustic instrument!

It isn't hard but it does take time and patience. When people ask me what they should buy and if this new A thing is better than the B thing, I tell them to go out and listen to music, everything from a singer on the street corner to a symphony orchestra playing in an opera house. The experience is rewarding. Do that and I guarantee you'll know more than 95% of people who write those dreadful articles in HIFI magazines and make useless videos on YT.

Cheers - Antun


I agree with you 100%.
At some point audiophiles have to get real... what's natural about hearing an orchestra or Led Zeppelin playing in your home??

MetalAudio

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #17 on: 10 Sep 2023, 03:51 pm »
What if someone else says "no, I heard the exact opposite"? See, your opinion makes sense - to you - not necessarily to someone else. That is why I asked what is "better".

Also, one needs to be very careful when assessing what sounds natural. I am sorry to say, but even professional reviewers make a cardinal mistake by thinking they're somehow born with an instict to be able to say with certainty if a piano sounds natural. Even academically educated pianists sometimes cannot do that. People can't even tell a difference between a software instrument and a real acoustic instrument!

It isn't hard but it does take time and patience. When people ask me what they should buy and if this new A thing is better than the B thing, I tell them to go out and listen to music, everything from a singer on the street corner to a symphony orchestra playing in an opera house. The experience is rewarding. Do that and I guarantee you'll know more than 95% of people who write those dreadful articles in HIFI magazines and make useless videos on YT.

Cheers - Antun

I mean it's true - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But consider this - if BDA3 was truly an endgame dac, then other high-end dacs would not exist. Why would someone spend, 10, 20, 50 thousand dollars on a dac if it didn't make any difference? People that are into high-end audio gear are not stupid - they would not buy these components if they didn't sound better to their ears.

James Tanner

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #18 on: 10 Sep 2023, 04:43 pm »
I mean it's true - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But consider this - if BDA3 was truly an endgame dac, then other high-end dacs would not exist. Why would someone spend, 10, 20, 50 thousand dollars on a dac if it didn't make any difference? People that are into high-end audio gear are not stupid - they would not buy these components if they didn't sound better to their ears.

Hi MA

The problem is that the science does not lie. There has to be a measurable difference to account for the subjective differences people claim they hear.

The other major problem is the total polarized opinions on a specific DAC from one person to the next.

If you can show me a DAC that measurers better than the BDA-3 I will strive to to meant that challenge with our next Bryston DAC.

best
james

MetalAudio

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Re: Next generation dac?
« Reply #19 on: 11 Sep 2023, 03:03 am »
Hi MA

The problem is that the science does not lie. There has to be a measurable difference to account for the subjective differences people claim they hear.

The other major problem is the total polarized opinions on a specific DAC from one person to the next.

If you can show me a DAC that measurers better than the BDA-3 I will strive to to meant that challenge with our next Bryston DAC.

best
james

A specific set of measurements may not be sufficient to capture what is "good sound". In fact I don't really care about the measurements and I trust my ears.

I invite you to one day come and listen to a "better" dac. We can do an A/B vs the BDA 3 (or at least the version that I have in my preamp) and then you tell me which one sounds better.