AudioCircle
Industry Circles => LampizatOr => Topic started by: bonzo75 on 13 Apr 2015, 12:43 pm
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This thread is for Lampi B7 fans, wanted to know if you had/have a Turntable, or have compared the Big 7 to a TT (where you are also a seasoned TT fan), and if so, what were your observations, and which TT was it that you compared it to?
Thanks. Reason for the post is I am not interested in any other dacs or CD players. Have also compared B7 to a Trinity and I was very happy. so next thing in audio is, what can a TT do better than a Lampi, if at all, especially on classical and opera? I am a TT noob
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I think that a properly set up high end turntable with a great cartridge, all of the associated cabling, a good phono preamp, a good pressing of the recording and a well cleaned record can best the Lampi Big 7. You will spend $20k getting to a rig that can best the Lampi (a cheaper table (except maybe used or a Teres) isn't getting there), spend time setting it up, spend tons of time looking for proper pressings and cleaning the records. And you will still get surface noise/pops... Who has the time for all of that? So, in other words, you can beat it, but it will become the bane of your existence to do so.
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Yes, but like any hifi addict I need a new journey.
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To me, if you like the sound of records and reels no DAC will reproduce that. On the other hand, who is looking for that. Both analog and digital formats have their place in my system.
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great thread. I love my 7 and feel its the closest digital product on the market to true "analog" sound. That being said, I don't currently own a table but still want one.
I think results may vary based on associated equipment (particularly the transport and digital cable along with power conditioning, grounding, etc, etc). The 7 alone with a crappy stock transport (computer) will not get it done.....
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Agreed, nowadays getting the transport, cables, HQ player and ripping right is as complex as setting up a TT. In fact I can buy a set up TT system someone has worked on for twenty years, while digital transports are evolving daily.
I am a bit bored with Lampi vs other dac discussions - call me opinionated but other dacs are not as good. So, let's compare the Lampi to high end TTs. Big 7 and GG only please
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I wonder how many people have high end TTs and a Big 7.
I have a L4.5/G4 and a high end TT. Frankly, the Lampi doesn't even compete even though I think the DAC sounds great. I am also someone partial to analog sound.
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It is good to see that I'm not the only one thinking about adding a TT. :scratch:
I agree that under perfect conditions ($$ and time) Vinyl can sound better than Hi-res.
I will also agree that getting a Digital Rig to sound its best also takes $$ and time. Depends on how deep you want to get in the hobby. I envy the people that realize when something is "good enough".
I would say in a perfect world one would have a nice Analog and Digital setup, why choose?
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Hopefully Gopher can weigh in as well on how Lampi compares to turntables he's had. IIRC, he's had some nice vinyl set-ups. And he certainly knows Lampi well.
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I would say in a perfect world one would have a nice Analog and Digital setup, why choose?
Exactly.
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I had a L4g4 before my Big 7 and some decent gear to play it through. I went to audition some Well Tempered turntables with some high end gear and was actually disappointed compared to the sound I had. It's what pushed me to get a big 7. I was going to have to invest 7-10 grand just to get started before any records.
But
I have heard an analog system that was the sweetest sounding music listening session I've ever had....different than live, really special.
BUT with that said the owner of said analog system has heard my Big7 playing a DSD was very impressed with what it could do. Like others have said I agree that it can sound much better, its going to be expensive and I think its worth it.
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Comparing a dac (Lampi in this case which I do not own) to a TT is strange. Turntables are a love, passion and a process. Some love the whole thing and quite frankly, I do not. So, I'd take a dac over it and actually do. I haven't sold my vinyl as perhaps someday I'll go back to it again as the sound is different but digital for me is so nice.
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Given that recording quality is the highest determining factor (may be along with room interaction) of sound quality in a system - isn't there a possibility that a particular album on vinyl may sound better than CD just because either the mastering was better or higher resolution master was used for vinyl? Commercially produced CD often times is subject to dynamic range/compression and victim of loudness war. The same album on vinyl - not so much. Ever wonder why? May be this is intentional knowing that target consumer for vinyl is more serious about sound quality etc..
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Comparing a dac (Lampi in this case which I do not own) to a TT is strange. Turntables are a love, passion and a process. Some love the whole thing and quite frankly, I do not. So, I'd take a dac over it and actually do. I haven't sold my vinyl as perhaps someday I'll go back to it again as the sound is different but digital for me is so nice.
You make some very good points. Playing vinyl is a passion. If one doesn't enjoy the act then it isn't worth it.
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Given that recording quality is the highest determining factor (may be along with room interaction) of sound quality in a system - isn't there a possibility that a particular album on vinyl may sound better than CD just because either the mastering was better or higher resolution master was used for vinyl? Commercially produced CD often times is subject to dynamic range/compression and victim of loudness war. The same album on vinyl - not so much. Ever wonder why? May be this is intentional knowing that target consumer for vinyl is more serious about sound quality etc..
I've heard and own some real shitty vinyl. Just as I've heard great vinyl, I've also heard great digital. It goes both ways. Always has; always will. I can appreciate both but my life (read - time) isn't conducive to vinyl at this time.
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I am a bit bored with Lampi vs other dac discussions - call me opinionated but other dacs are not as good. So, let's compare the Lampi to high end TTs. Big 7 and GG only please
Forgive me for the smugness but I agree....
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I wonder how many people have high end TTs and a Big 7.
I have a L4.5/G4 and a high end TT. Frankly, the Lampi doesn't even compete even though I think the DAC sounds great. I am also someone partial to analog sound.
Even though I don't own an analog rig, I share that sonic bias. My hard core analog friends stratify things this way: master tape>vinyl>DSD>PCM hi rez>Redbook.
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Even though I don't own an analog rig, I share that sonic bias. My hard core analog friends stratify things this way: master tape>vinyl>DSD>PCM hi rez>Redbook.
That would be my order too. It is really amazing how good master tapes sound.
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I had a L4g4 before my Big 7 and some decent gear to play it through. I went to audition some Well Tempered turntables with some high end gear and was actually disappointed compared to the sound I had. It's what pushed me to get a big 7. I was going to have to invest 7-10 grand just to get started before any records.
But
I have heard an analog system that was the sweetest sounding music listening session I've ever had....different than live, really special.
BUT with that said the owner of said analog system has heard my Big7 playing a DSD was very impressed with what it could do. Like others have said I agree that it can sound much better, its going to be expensive and I think its worth it.
Owner of said analog system has upgraded substantially since your sweetest sounding music listening session ever.
I think it says something about digital when those in that camp are trying to get their stuff to sound analog. Ever hear of a turntable person trying to get their rig to sound digital? I've heard a well done (with gear very similar to mine oddly enough) Big 7 system on a couple of occasions and it is very nice indeed. However, I think any DAC is going to lack things that a good analog setup brings. Since going vinyl is so much more expensive it's difficult to make a fair comparison $ for $. $10k into a vinyl setup doesn't get you much. If I only had $10k to spend I would get a DAC like the Big 7 and enjoy the simple life. Maybe $20k into vinyl gets you at a level playing field, then it is vinyl without a doubt! There are just too many pieces needed to compose a vinyl rig which makes these comparisons confusing.
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Forgive me for the smugness but I agree....
Time to tube roll then...
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* Me wake up across the pond and scratch head. 17 posts and no real reply * :scratch:
Guys this thread is not about if a dac will be more convenient than a TT or if it is or is not a different medium. Anyone who has bought a B7 has been through many digital vs vinyl discussions. This is not another generic one.
This is not about L4, L5, Amber, Lite 7, or DSD dac, which are sonically nowhere to a B7. Easy for a TT to beat a L5 and be beaten by a B7
As specified in the first post, it is about if anyone has compared TTs to a Big 7 and what their findings are. GuF did do try a relevant comparison in Post 10, second para. More of that, please
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What is needed is a B7 and a great TT in one room and then an A/B (to the extent possible).
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What is needed is a B7 and a great TT in one room and then an A/B (to the extent possible).
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16724-Tripoint-emperor-a-breakthrough&highlight=Lampizator
This gentleman has both the Goldengate and a walker turntable. I believe he prefers the turntable but you can ask him. He does not have an optimized server yet but I rather doubt that will change the final outcome. He also has the Trinity dac and server
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http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16724-Tripoint-emperor-a-breakthrough&highlight=Lampizator
This gentleman has both the Goldengate and a walker turntable. I believe he prefers the turntable but you can ask him. He does not have an optimized server yet but I rather doubt that will change the final outcome. He also has the Trinity dac and server
Audiocrack's GG is in his secondary system, not in his primary, and he has never compared it with the Trinity (he mentioned this on WBF) and doubt he would have with Walker based on the same logic. Also his GG i fairly new and still burning in.
That said, I have compared the B7 to the Trinity and for me the B7 was better on every track with distance increasing considerably on orchestral. But yes, Audiocrack is a good person to compare it at some point though I believe his TT set up will be super expensive. We need to find the B7 equivalent of a TT
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Audiocrack's GG is in his secondary system, not in his primary, and he has never compared it with the Trinity (he mentioned this on WBF) and doubt he would have with Walker based on the same logic. Also his GG i fairly new and still burning in.
That said, I have compared the B7 to the Trinity and for me the B7 was better on every track with distance increasing considerably on orchestral. But yes, Audiocrack is a good person to compare it at some point though I believe his TT set up will be super expensive. We need to find the B7 equivalent of a TT
He is the obvious candidate to answer your questions, and the logistics are hardly insurmountable. Send him a PM. Rudolph is very personable.
He prefers the Trinity on PCM with the caveat that he does not have a bona fide transport yet for the GG.
Most B7 owners (including the US dist and Norman) are digital only guys. You could also answer your own question as a last resort.
Do you feel the B7 falls short compared to higher level tables your have heard? What does your system consist of?
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What is needed is a B7 and a great TT in one room and then an A/B (to the extent possible).
Well, I have a decent turntable setup, not great by any stretch of the imagination.
BUT, I've been wanting to hear a Lampizator DAC, so if someone wants to send me a B7, I'll compare and write it up. :lol:
All kidding aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a reference level DAC and TT setup at all.
For classical music like the OP stated is his preference, there is a ton of available vinyl both new and used, that probably would provide excellent sound quality if properly cleaned and maintained.
I also don't think the OP would have to spend 20K+ to at least match the sound qualities of the B7. Digital and analog sound inherently different, but there are varying levels of overall sound quality to be matched.
I think if you matched the price range of the B7, which I don't think is 20K, you would be sitting pretty. Off the top of my head, a Basis 2100 w/Tecnoarm, Dynavector XX-2, and a Herron Phono Stage would pretty great, and all could probably be found used for 10K or less. New, maybe 12K.
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Well, I have a decent turntable setup, not great by any stretch of the imagination.
BUT, I've been wanting to hear a Lampizator DAC, so if someone wants to send me a B7, I'll compare and write it up. :lol:
All kidding aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a reference level DAC and TT setup at all.
For classical music like the OP stated is his preference, there is a ton of available vinyl both new and used, that probably would provide excellent sound quality if properly cleaned and maintained.
I also don't think the OP would have to spend 20K+ to at least match the sound qualities of the B7. Digital and analog sound inherently different, but there are varying levels of overall sound quality to be matched.
I think if you matched the price range of the B7, which I don't think is 20K, you would be sitting pretty. Off the top of my head, a Basis 2100 w/Tecnoarm, Dynavector XX-2, and a Herron Phono Stage would pretty great, and all could probably be found used for 10K or less. New, maybe 12K.
Also haven't heard a Lampi in a familiar rig, though I have heard it sound fantastic in show set-ups. But I agree that 20k+ may not be required to match the Lampi or other high dollar digital set-up. The Basis system suggested above would be a great one to compare to the Lampi. As would a VPI Classic with 3D arm, and I'd also think that my Townshend Rock 7 with a Helius or Moerch Arm would do quite well against most any high-end digital set-up. IME, these sorts of vinyl rigs are where you begin to take a big step forward in vinyl reproduction. Starting with something like the Well Tempered Amadeus (though cost-cutting steps and compromises are more evident on the Amadeus and Simplex than the other tables mentioned here).
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But I agree that 20k+ may not be required to match the Lampi or other high dollar digital set-up.
Match in what way? Analog and digital sound so different.
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Match in what way? Analog and digital sound so different.
Yes, "match" may not have been the best of terms. I had something in mind like "be an analog equivalent" or something like that. Without trying to suggest that there aren't differences in digital and analog sounds...
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He is the obvious candidate to answer your questions, and the logistics are hardly insurmountable. Send him a PM. Rudolph is very personable.
He prefers the Trinity on PCM with the caveat that he does not have a bona fide transport yet for the GG.
Most B7 owners (including the US dist and Norman) are digital only guys. You could also answer your own question as a last resort.
Do you feel the B7 falls short compared to higher level tables your have heard? What does your system consist of?
The UK Lampi distributor is also a TT guy, but he prefers the Lampi. I have compared the Lampi to a VPI classic, and both the VPI owner and I preferred the Lampi, he is going to buy one. That said, the TT world is huge. I have heard Techdas Air force One, and Goldmund reference, and they do great things, but haven't compared them.
My impressions were - that a TT is great at tonality. Lampi can match up to tonality on some well mastered recordings, but there are more masterings in digital with some glare, especially with violins, in the high frequency. On the other hand, Lampi seemed to be more airy and spacious, and precise. But my impressions are not well-studied as I haven't compared with TTs over a longer term which is what needs to be done, and one really needs to have had both in his system for that.
As for your question about my system, I first had ML Summits with AR Reference amps, and now Verity Audio Leonores. Have moved Jadis in and out of the system, now ampless for the moment.
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The UK Lampi distributor is also a TT guy, but he prefers the Lampi. I have compared the Lampi to a VPI classic, and both the VPI owner and I preferred the Lampi, he is going to buy one. That said, the TT world is huge. I have heard Techdas Air force One, and Goldmund reference, and they do great things, but haven't compared them.
My impressions were - that a TT is great at tonality. Lampi can match up to tonality on some well mastered recordings, but there are more masterings in digital with some glare, especially with violins, in the high frequency. On the other hand, Lampi seemed to be more airy and spacious, and precise. But my impressions are not well-studied as I haven't compared with TTs over a longer term which is what needs to be done, and one really needs to have had both in his system for that.
Thanks for that feedback. And we should all keep in mind that unfortunately sometimes the digital and the analog have different masterings, which for audiophiles usually comes out as an advantage for vinyl.
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Thanks for that feedback. And we should all keep in mind that unfortunately sometimes the digital and the analog have different masterings, which for audiophiles usually comes out as an advantage for vinyl.
I think the mastering plays an important role.
Different Direction:
I listened to some Jazz and Rock that a guy "ripped" from vinyl using a high dollar TT and equip, then cleaned all the clicks and pops. Encoded to 24/192, all vinyl was cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner and mechanical cleaner, then air.
Then I compared those files with hi-res 24/192 downloads. I was surprised to find how different they sounded. And I actually preferred the digital downloads. Whether they were true to the source or not, they seemed to be more dynamic and the highs seemed more energetic.
I think it is important for people to try and compare Vinyl vs Hi-res. Vinyl sounds good... but I have found that they sound different, and I usually prefer the Hi-Res downloads. I haven't tried DSD yet, but I am hoping there is even more ground to gain over PCM.
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I have a Big 7. I have a good turntable on order. We will see what happens when that all shakes out. Need to get a new phono pre though...
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I have a Big 7. I have a good turntable on order. We will see what happens when that all shakes out. Need to get a new phono pre though...
Great, which TT? Also, do you listen to orchestral?
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AMG V12. I do on occasion. Depends on the mood. I am more a Decemberists kind of listener.
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I think the mastering plays an important role.
Different Direction:
I listened to some Jazz and Rock that a guy "ripped" from vinyl using a high dollar TT and equip, then cleaned all the clicks and pops. Encoded to 24/192, all vinyl was cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner and mechanical cleaner, then air.
Then I compared those files with hi-res 24/192 downloads. I was surprised to find how different they sounded. And I actually preferred the digital downloads. Whether they were true to the source or not, they seemed to be more dynamic and the highs seemed more energetic.
I think it is important for people to try and compare Vinyl vs Hi-res. Vinyl sounds good... but I have found that they sound different, and I usually prefer the Hi-Res downloads. I haven't tried DSD yet, but I am hoping there is even more ground to gain over PCM.
You hit the nail quite squarely on the head! In any kind of digital vs analog comparison one has to have similar source files to be fair at all. The best comparison would be to make a recording to both analog tape and high resolution digital (DSD or 24/192 or higher) at the same time, then compare the results. Since analog tape is a bit limiting, theoretically, vs the best digital capture, comparing digital vs analog via an analog original source (mastertape) is not quite fair, but a good commercially available album to do this would be Shelby Lynne's "Just a Little Lovin', which was recorded to tape, mixed all analog, then one could compare the DSD version and the LP version from Analog Productions, at least then we would know the Master is the same in both cases.
From the other direction, I am pretty sure Reference Recordings has some titles available both on LP and Hrx (24/176.4 master copy) for comparison.
Comparing anything which comes from different sources is a fools errand and cannot be definitive at all.
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He is the obvious candidate to answer your questions, and the logistics are hardly insurmountable. Send him a PM. Rudolph is very personable.
He prefers the Trinity on PCM with the caveat that he does not have a bona fide transport yet for the GG.
Most B7 owners (including the US dist and Norman) are digital only guys. You could also answer your own question as a last resort.
Do you feel the B7 falls short compared to higher level tables your have heard? What does your system consist of?
A-Crack is nowhere near ready yet to do the tests you talk about Andrew. Trinity has dedicated Trinity Transport and its all emperored up. Totally burnt in. GG likely has seen no play since installation and the 2nd set of speakers are still forthcoming. 1-2 months wait to have a decent first listen. BTW, AC has 4 world class TTs, of which 2 are air-bearing…
He WILL be the man to answer all questions. Patience grasshoppers...
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I don't really think that there are questions to answer here really. It's flavors. We all like different ones....
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I know, but he will say which flavours HE likes best and why...
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I don't really think that there are questions to answer here really. It's flavors. We all like different ones....
Well, said. One isn't "better" than another. They sound different. And even if someone says "I like my TT better than my Big 7" it doesn't mean another person listening to the same system would agree.
From my experience, people who like playing records are more passionate about the act than playing digital music. It doesn't mean they enjoy music more, but there is a lot more effort required than to select a disk or someone on an ipad.
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Again, a stimulating thread. A lot of these perceptions are dictated by system resolution. Despite being a Lampi B7 owner, I still prefer the higher tiered analog (master tape and vinyl) I have heard. There is a dynamic ease, density of tone and fluidity that digital cannot simulate no matter the format type or dac used. I have a fair amount of DSD and even that through the Lampi does not quite get there. It gets very close. This all might change as I upgrade my transport, etc.
I am looking at purchasing a Triangle table at some point. That will be eye opening....
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Again, a stimulating thread. A lot of these perceptions are dictated by system resolution. Despite being a Lampi B7 owner, I still prefer the higher tiered analog (master tape and vinyl) I have heard. There is a dynamic ease, density of tone and fluidity that digital cannot simulate no matter the format type or dac used. I have a fair amount of DSD and even that through the Lampi does not quite get there. It gets very close. This all might change as I upgrade my transport, etc.
I am looking at purchasing a Triangle table at some point. That will be eye opening....
Do you also find the bass on analog is unequaled? I do. Both my turntable and reel to reel reproduce bass deeper and more 3D than any digital source.
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Given that turntables and cartridges are notoriously colored sources due to any number of physical and electrical factors involved in the record mastering and cutting process and continuing right through the TT, arm/cartridge choice ending perhaps with the phono-stage, how do you know with this many variables in play what the original master tape might sound like.
It seems to me that vinyl is but a version of the master tape assuming a low stamper number. Perhaps a more meaningful comparison
might be to the original analogue master tape vs the Hi-Rez transfer of the master tape to the medium of your choice. I would tend to favor 24/192 or DSD 128.
I can't see how this kind of comparison (Lampizator and Turntables) can be anything but an apple and oranges exercise devolving ultimately into a matter of personal preference.
Don't misunderstand me, I run an analogue rig and I enjoy the records I have, but I freely acknowledge that the two sound different and have appealing qualities that are unique to each medium.
Scotty
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Again, a stimulating thread. A lot of these perceptions are dictated by system resolution. Despite being a Lampi B7 owner, I still prefer the higher tiered analog (master tape and vinyl) I have heard. There is a dynamic ease, density of tone and fluidity that digital cannot simulate no matter the format type or dac used. I have a fair amount of DSD and even that through the Lampi does not quite get there. It gets very close. This all might change as I upgrade my transport, etc.
I am looking at purchasing a Triangle table at some point. That will be eye opening....
Hi, that is what I referred to in my feedback as well, tonality. I would also concur with density. However would also like to know perceptions on soundstage, bass, spaciousness, dynamics, separation, slam, and precision. Also, I personally prefer to judge those last 4 attributes on orchestral, when 40 instruments are thrown in as opposed to 4, and hence my ask of classical in the first post.
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AMG V12. I do on occasion. Depends on the mood. I am more a Decemberists kind of listener.
Beautiful TT selection, I love the sound from the one at my local dealer. I fight myself to not upgrade from my ovation setup. Great music selection too (saw them live a few weeks back here in Chicago).
I'm considering a B7 purchase pending hearing one at Axpona....... the wait is killing me.
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I am looking at purchasing a Triangle table at some point. That will be eye opening....
Off track - Have you heard the NAT Audio Pre and Power that the Triangle Art guy stocks? What did you think?
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Do you also find the bass on analog is unequaled? I do. Both my turntable and reel to reel reproduce bass deeper and more 3D than any digital source.
I do indeed....not sure why that is but it is....
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Hi, that is what I referred to in my feedback as well, tonality. I would also concur with density. However would also like to know perceptions on soundstage, bass, spaciousness, dynamics, separation, slam, and precision. Also, I personally prefer to judge those last 4 attributes on orchestral, when 40 instruments are thrown in as opposed to 4, and hence my ask of classical in the first post.
In terms of soundstage, spaciousness, separation, and precision digital comes out ahead (presumably due to noise floor reduction?). Analog has less pixelation and less apparent information that lends itself to spatial cues, but you could argue that its an artificial byproduct of digital reconstruction....
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Off track - Have you heard the NAT Audio Pre and Power that the Triangle Art guy stocks? What did you think?
I have not. Tom Vu filled my ears about it particularly the phono stage which he says is one of the best in the world. I would love to hear it.
I own the Viva Solista currently and that performs admirably....
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I have not. Tom Vu filled my ears about it particularly the phono stage which he says is one of the best in the world. I would love to hear it.
I own the Viva Solista currently and that performs admirably....
That is the NAT Audio from Serbia, rated 1 in Germany. Those who have owned both NAT and the others, say they are much better than the high end Lamms, VTLs, Kondos, etc, at a much lower price. You can buy them factory direct, actually, though you lose out on service. For those who like the NATs, the NATs are the Lampis of pre and power amps.
I had the NATs next to the Jadis in my system. Cleaner on separation with orchestral music, each instrument more rounded, and more dynamic. Less airy though, more transparent like it's not there. Give it a try. Power amp are SET monoblocks of 120 - 160w each, class A, valve, but too hot for my London home. Their entry level pre blows apart the ARC 5SE
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I know that another Londoner who scored some NAT gear (spiritofmusic) and he loves it on his Zu speakers.....
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For the record, the Lampizator L7 is the dac of choice for analog only types who hate digital. I think the transport has a big impact on how "close" you can get to recreating "analog" sound (density, fluidity, ease, etc).....that and the digital cable. The Auralic Aries is great but I feel I can take things much further with other higher end alternatives....
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For the record, the Lampizator L7 is the dac of choice for analog only types who hate digital. I think the transport has a big impact on how "close" you can get to recreating "analog" sound (density, fluidity, ease, etc).....that and the digital cable. The Auralic Aries is great but I feel I can take things much further with other higher end alternatives....
When you say "transport" are you including computers/music servers, or just optical drives?
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Audiocrack's GG is in his secondary system, not in his primary, and he has never compared it with the Trinity (he mentioned this on WBF) and doubt he would have with Walker based on the same logic. Also his GG i fairly new and still burning in.
That said, I have compared the B7 to the Trinity and for me the B7 was better on every track with distance increasing considerably on orchestral. But yes, Audiocrack is a good person to compare it at some point though I believe his TT set up will be super expensive. We need to find the B7 equivalent of a TT
Very cool statement to read publicly! I know behind the scenes a number of guys have compared them and preferred the Lampi, but they've been hesitant to put their findings in the public space.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Given that turntables and cartridges are notoriously colored sources due to any number of physical and electrical factors involved in the record mastering and cutting process and continuing right through the TT, arm/cartridge choice ending perhaps with the phono-stage, how do you know with this many variables in play what the original master tape might sound like.
It seems to me that vinyl is but a version of the master tape assuming a low stamper number. Perhaps a more meaningful comparison
might be to the original analogue master tape vs the Hi-Rez transfer of the master tape to the medium of your choice. I would tend to favor 24/192 or DSD 128.
I can't see how this kind of comparison (Lampizator and Turntables) can be anything but an apple and oranges exercise devolving ultimately into a matter of personal preference.
Don't misunderstand me, I run an analogue rig and I enjoy the records I have, but I freely acknowledge that the two sound different and have appealing qualities that are unique to each medium.
Scotty
Exactly Scotty. Well said. Whilst I am here having a digital source sound like vinyl is plain a waste oof time. However getting one's source to sound more like the truth of live unamplified music should be the goal. Color is as color does. :thumb:
charles
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When you say "transport" are you including computers/music servers, or just optical drives?
Both but I use computers at this point...
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Exactly Scotty. Well said. Whilst I am here having a digital source sound like vinyl is plain a waste oof time. However getting one's source to sound more like the truth of live unamplified music should be the goal. Color is as color does. :thumb:
charles
That goes without saying. Live, non-amplified music is not pixelated and schizophrenic. It comes at you as a fluid whole. I think a lot of that experience at the source level is dictated by sound engineering and the recording medium. The same analogophiles who think digital is the devil's work also feel the same way about modern recording methods. Just ask an old school recording engineer about Protools and watch them have a seizure....
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Very cool statement to read publicly! I know behind the scenes a number of guys have compared them and preferred the Lampi, but they've been hesitant to put their findings in the public space.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
A blinded shootout would be good as I have heard contrary opinions. The Audioexotics crew was approached by the Lampi dealer in Hong Kong about a shoutout and they scoffed....
On a similar note, the recent AE show in Hong Kong had an almost 7 figure show system that was fronted by the Trinity dac, and when they converted to vinyl the speaker designer and several others in the room exclaimed that the music had finally arrived (private communication). I have other audio acquaintances who own big dollar vinyl rigs and who have heard the Lampizator 7 in several different settings and still love their vinyl. For me personally, owning both would be ideal...
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A blinded shootout would be good as I have heard contrary opinions. The Audioexotics crew was approached by the Lampi dealer in Hong Kong about a shoutout and they scoffed....
On a similar note, the recent AE show in Hong Kong had an almost 7 figure show system that was fronted by the Trinity dac, and when they converted to vinyl the speaker designer and several others in the room exclaimed that the music had finally arrived (private communication). I have other audio acquaintances who own big dollar vinyl rigs and who have heard the Lampizator 7 in several different settings and still love their vinyl. For me personally, owning both would be ideal...
When comparing totally diff mediums at least have a price point in mind. A 100k vinyl rig with the best pressings is going to beat digital I presume and at 10x the price of a B7 it should be staggering IMO. The vinyl guys that play in the 5-10k area, what are they achieving in relation to SOTA in digital at that same price point? That to me is a much more valid question, then talking merely about the 1% of the world and there 6 and some 7 fig rigs.
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A blinded shootout would be good as I have heard contrary opinions. The Audioexotics crew was approached by the Lampi dealer in Hong Kong about a shoutout and they scoffed....
On a similar note, the recent AE show in Hong Kong had an almost 7 figure show system that was fronted by the Trinity dac, and when they converted to vinyl the speaker designer and several others in the room exclaimed that the music had finally arrived (private communication). I have other audio acquaintances who own big dollar vinyl rigs and who have heard the Lampizator 7 in several different settings and still love their vinyl. For me personally, owning both would be ideal...
I assume the 7 figure system would be with Cessaro speakers?
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I assume the 7 figure system would be with Cessaro speakers?
Correct. The big boys....
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When comparing totally diff mediums at least have a price point in mind. A 100k vinyl rig with the best pressings is going to beat digital I presume and at 10x the price of a B7 it should be staggering IMO. The vinyl guys that play in the 5-10k area, what are they achieving in relation to SOTA in digital at that same price point? That to me is a much more valid question, then talking merely about the 1% of the world and there 6 and some 7 fig rigs.
I find even modest vinyl rigs can sound pleasing while you have to throw more money at digital. There is a reason why you see so much vinyl and master tape at shows. If digital has truly arrived (which it has not), those things would be dust.
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Correct. The big boys....
I have heard the Liszt many times. Excellent midrange because of the tad compression drivers, but poor at crossover, so major problems with full symphonic. Also very unreal sounds of piano and other instruments. For a quality horn, recommend the Tune Audio Anima. It's from Greece, much cheaper than cessaro (though still expensive). My favorite speaker with another Greek speaker that Rollo here sells, the Analysis audio
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On the extreme end, I have friends who say vinyl sucks and is a poor facsimile of master tape.... :o
I find digital just as tweaky (or even more so) than vinyl.... :scratch: For example, power matters. My rig sounds better at 3 am (I have young ones so I am often up at that ungodly hour) than 9 pm. I have nerdy engineer friends who insist on battery power for digital (and I don't completely disagree). Electrical grounding apparently matters. I have lunatic audio friends who insist on fancy grounding boxes and how they make digital more "analog." I presume that has something to do with EMI/RFI busting? The chassis of said dac matters. The CAD guy out of the UK insists on an acrylic chassis for these and other reasons. Mechanical grounding (Starsound, Stillpoints, etc) apparently matters. Cabling matters. My Totaldac USB cable made a huge difference. Transports matter. A Macbook air or stock Mac mini into my B7 sucked. The Aeries was much better, and that is still probably substandard compared to other more tricked out servers.
The amusing thing for me is to blame one component on my "sound" and find out its something(s) else entirely. What a schizophrenic hobby..... :lol:
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I have heard the Liszt many times. Excellent midrange because of the tad compression drivers, but poor at crossover, so major problems with full symphonic. Also very unreal sounds of piano and other instruments. For a quality horn, recommend the Tune Audio Anima. It's from Greece, much cheaper than cessaro (though still expensive). My favorite speaker with another Greek speaker that Rollo here sells, the Analysis audio
What speakers do you use? I am fan of horns and considered the Voltis at one point along with the Sadurnis. I am also a planar fan. The Analysis stuff looks like the second coming of Apogee? I just looked them up and see they are made in Charlotte NC where I live! Will have to go check them out....
I know horn speakers have issues (but most do....mine do....). I have some video footage of full symphonic music via the Litz speakers, and it sounds pretty good. That is the main speaker in the AE showroom, and many cost-no-object asian audiophiles say its the best sound they have heard anywhere. Who knows.
Have you heard the CAD dac?
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For the record, the Lampizator L7 is the dac of choice for analog only types who hate digital. I think the transport has a big impact on how "close" you can get to recreating "analog" sound (density, fluidity, ease, etc).....that and the digital cable. The Auralic Aries is great but I feel I can take things much further with other higher end alternatives....
The last 2 Dac's I have bought are the Auralic Vega paired with Auralic Aries and my current setup Totaldac D1 Dual paired with Totaldac D1 Server .
The Auralic products I feel are the best for the price that one can do , the Totaldac walks all over it but at a much higher price . I went back and forth with
vinyl vs digital and after hearing the Totaldac I was hooked , I am now 100 % digital . It is the only DAC I have heard that I really enjoy its that good .
I also invested and maybe a little overboard in a dedicated router and NAS /SSD powerd by 2 SR-5 linear PSU units
The Dacs are getting better and better everyday
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What speakers do you use? I am fan of horns and considered the Voltis at one point along with the Sadurnis. I am also a planar fan. The Analysis stuff looks like the second coming of Apogee? I just looked them up and see they are made in Charlotte NC where I live! Will have to go check them out....
I know horn speakers have issues (but most do....mine do....). I have some video footage of full symphonic music via the Litz speakers, and it sounds pretty good. That is the main speaker in the AE showroom, and many cost-no-object asian audiophiles say its the best sound they have heard anywhere. Who knows.
Have you heard the CAD dac?
The Analysis were inspired by Apogees, and look similar, but are much better. Apogees are more about only the bass, but the AA are beautiful throughout. I owned Martin Logan Summits. The AA modded by the US distributor, which Rollo sells, are awesome. Check out Rollo's reference system in Queens, NY, with the AA Amphitryons and the Lamms. Yes I would replace the Weiss medea in that system with the Big 7;), but that apart, the speakers are great.
You should also check out the GT Audio Planars which are very good and cost only $6k. Essentially a hybrid like the ML but with Ribbon and magnet sweetness, high quality material. The neodymium magnets in there are better quality than Apogees.
As for the Cessaro, the piano I hear from them is pretty weird, not at all real, and their bass is poor. I don't like the brass from them as well, and horns usually excel at brass. I think cost no object audiophiles often like costly objects.
The Tune Audio Anima was voted by one of the reviewers as sound of the show at Munich a few years ago. I find it the most real of speakers. By far the best on jazz, once you listen to brass there, you just can't hear brass on anything else. The brass and the drums on jazz together are spectacular. It could do with a sub for church organs but I find the 40hz sufficient for the rest. Mind you the tonality of the Anima is very different, it is more raw and real. You have to listen to it, and a show is not the best place. Ideally Paris is a good place to fly out for a listen.
Here are some horn speakers I auditioned. The first was the best with the Anima, but unknown seller, i,.e. DIY guy
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16602-Horn-Porn-tour-III-JBL-awesome-Western-Electric-Berlin
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17150-Horn-Porn-IV-Tune-Audio-Anima-with-Aries-Cerat-integrated-amp
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16600-Horn-Porn-tour-1-Voxativ-Ampeggio-Due
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16601-Horn-Porn-tour-II-BD-Oris-Horns-Netherlands
Visiting Avantgarde factory on the 4th
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The last 2 Dac's I have bought are the Auralic Vega paired with Auralic Aries and my current setup Totaldac D1 Dual paired with Totaldac D1 Server .
The Auralic products I feel are the best for the price that one can do , the Totaldac walks all over it but at a much higher price . I went back and forth with
vinyl vs digital and after hearing the Totaldac I was hooked , I am now 100 % digital . It is the only DAC I have heard that I really enjoy its that good .
I also invested and maybe a little overboard in a dedicated router and NAS /SSD powerd by 2 SR-5 linear PSU units
The Dacs are getting better and better everyday
Good for you. I looked at the Totaldac all in one unit and did not go with it partly due to the (at that time) crappy exchange rate. The USB cable kicks butt....i know that much.
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The Analysis were inspired by Apogees, and look similar, but are much better. Apogees are more about only the bass, but the AA are beautiful throughout. I owned Martin Logan Summits. The AA modded by the US distributor, which Rollo sells, are awesome. Check out Rollo's reference system in Queens, NY, with the AA Amphitryons and the Lamms. Yes I would replace the Weiss medea in that system with the Big 7;), but that apart, the speakers are great.
You should also check out the GT Audio Planars which are very good and cost only $6k. Essentially a hybrid like the ML but with Ribbon and magnet sweetness, high quality material. The neodymium magnets in there are better quality than Apogees.
As for the Cessaro, the piano I hear from them is pretty weird, not at all real, and their bass is poor. I don't like the brass from them as well, and horns usually excel at brass. I think cost no object audiophiles often like costly objects.
The Tune Audio Anima was voted by one of the reviewers as sound of the show at Munich a few years ago. I find it the most real of speakers. By far the best on jazz, once you listen to brass there, you just can't hear brass on anything else. The brass and the drums on jazz together are spectacular. It could do with a sub for church organs but I find the 40hz sufficient for the rest. Mind you the tonality of the Anima is very different, it is more raw and real. You have to listen to it, and a show is not the best place. Ideally Paris is a good place to fly out for a listen.
Here are some horn speakers I auditioned. The first was the best with the Anima, but unknown seller, i,.e. DIY guy
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16602-Horn-Porn-tour-III-JBL-awesome-Western-Electric-Berlin
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17150-Horn-Porn-IV-Tune-Audio-Anima-with-Aries-Cerat-integrated-amp
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16600-Horn-Porn-tour-1-Voxativ-Ampeggio-Due
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16601-Horn-Porn-tour-II-BD-Oris-Horns-Netherlands
Visiting Avantgarde factory on the 4th
Very interesting. What do you think of the Trenner stuff out of Austria?
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Good for you. I looked at the Totaldac all in one unit and did not go with it partly due to the (at that time) crappy exchange rate. The USB cable kicks butt....i know that much.
The Totaldac USB is superb. . No idea about Trenner
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Very interesting. What do you think of the Trenner stuff out of Austria?
Do you mean Trenner or Haighner - Haighner is well known in Austria
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Good for you. I looked at the Totaldac all in one unit and did not go with it partly due to the (at that time) crappy exchange rate. The USB cable kicks butt....i know that much.
USB is awesome for sure just like the exchange rate now , the exchange rate on my Psu was not good at all
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I use a Dana Cable USB cable. It is really great. It is the first USB cable I have had that made a big difference. I am also interested in the Uptone Regen that just came out.
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Bonzo75 thanks for the kind words. We would love to try a Lampi big 7 in our ref. systems. Fred is a fellow Audiosyndrome club member. although we have not seen him in awhile. New busines, new home and family are keeping him busy.
Now we use two respected digital sources to demo. A modified Lector 7T and a weiss Medea DAC and CEC 01 transport. Fred lets get together for a spin.
charless
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Very interesting. What do you think of the Trenner stuff out of Austria?
Andrea's stuff? (he knows me from several shows now and a long tel call in the past.)
The tiny ART is magnificent and the larger RA needs a big room. I also heard the Pharoahs, but never the Duke or Ella.
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Do you mean Trenner or Haighner - Haighner is well known in Austria
Trenner & Freidl.
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I use a Dana Cable USB cable. It is really great. It is the first USB cable I have had that made a big difference. I am also interested in the Uptone Regen that just came out.
Yup,
I am going to try the Regen with the Corning Optical USB, a Lampi USB cable, an iFi Mercury cable and various other USB cables I have. I DONT have TotalDac cable nor Light harmonic.
Regen may obviate the need for pricey USB cables.
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Trenner & Freidl.
Please send link, will try to visit them Saturday
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Just checked, not a horn horn. Want to check out Kendrick sound in Japan one day
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USB is awesome for sure just like the exchange rate now , the exchange rate on my Psu was not good at all
I had an extensive demo with a TotalDac server/Dac+Voxativ 300b amps and Ampeggio Due speakers setup and 2.5 albums of my choosing..
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Just checked, not a horn horn. Want to check out Kendrick sound in Japan one day
http://www.trenner-friedl.com/index2.php?menu=produkte&ebene=&seite=1&sprache=en
I heard the Pharoah and Isis ...not RA.
Yup, not horns.
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I find even modest vinyl rigs can sound pleasing while you have to throw more money at digital. There is a reason why you see so much vinyl and master tape at shows. If digital has truly arrived (which it has not), those things would be dust.
You obviously have not been to shows lately. Tape is rare, and digital is the majority. Servers and DSD are all the rage.
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You obviously have not been to shows lately. Tape is rare, and digital is the majority. Servers and DSD are all the rage.
That is more for convenience, more so than SQ IMO.
It is infinitely easier to change musical selections and let potential buyers demo their own music with a digital set up than an analog set up.
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That is more for convenience, more so than SQ IMO.
It is infinitely easier to change musical selections and let potential buyers demo their own music with a digital set up than an analog set up.
You can have both like they had in the Kondo room. This solves that problem, but I see less and less analog setups.
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Bonzo75 thanks for the kind words. We would love to try a Lampi big 7 in our ref. systems. Fred is a fellow Audiosyndrome club member. although we have not seen him in awhile. New busines, new home and family are keeping him busy.
Now we use two respected digital sources to demo. A modified Lector 7T and a weiss Medea DAC and CEC 01 transport. Fred lets get together for a spin.
charless
Hey Charles,
It's been a while, my friend and I apologize I've been MIA. I had a difficult 2014 with all the above and some family health issues (all good now). I plan to be around a lot more in the upcoming months... One annoying coincidence though: At least 2 or 3 club meets I could have made it to last year fell on the same days I was out of town for Audio shows :duh:
I was there in spirit though. :thumb:
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You can have both like they had in the Kondo room. This solves that problem, but I see less and less analog setups.
I see just the opposite. I see more and more turntables in the rooms. Tape is still rare and will always be even though it sounds best (to me), but 5 years ago turntables were in only a few rooms. Now they are in many.
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Bonzo75 thanks for the kind words. We would love to try a Lampi big 7 in our ref. systems. Fred is a fellow Audiosyndrome club member. although we have not seen him in awhile. New busines, new home and family are keeping him busy.
Now we use two respected digital sources to demo. A modified Lector 7T and a weiss Medea DAC and CEC 01 transport. Fred lets get together for a spin.
charless
A heard some version of Lector CDP at Axpona in Atlanta several years back along with the German Vocative Arpeggio and it was one of my favorite sounds at the show. Old school digital but it was magic.
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Andrea's stuff? (he knows me from several shows now and a long tel call in the past.)
The tiny ART is magnificent and the larger RA needs a big room. I also heard the Pharoahs, but never the Duke or Ella.
Yes, out of Austria. My wife detests my current speakers and wants me to get the Pharaohs purely on aesthetics. In the US, the show a lot with Viva (which I own).
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I see just the opposite. I see more and more turntables in the rooms. Tape is still rare and will always be even though it sounds best (to me), but 5 years ago turntables were in only a few rooms. Now they are in many.
I agree. I have not attended a show since Axpona in Atlanta (2011), but there were a lot of turntables there. One of my other favorite rooms there was the Highwater sound room with that gorgeous Raven TT....
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bonzo75, have you heard the CAD dac? Its a UK brand (designed by an expat american engineer)....
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bonzo75, have you heard the CAD dac? Its a UK brand (designed by an expat american engineer)....
Hi yes, Around 2 years ago I had compared it to a Weiss, Meitner, and AR Dac 8 and preferred the Meitner. After that I heard it separately in another system. My impression of it was it was neutral and detailed, but it was like any other dac, maybe more detailed, but not special. Tbh I am not an upgrader for the sake of upgrading. I was very happy with an used AR dac 8 purchased at 2k GBP, and I thought all the 'upgrades' to Weiss, Meitner, and CAD were a waste of money despite those dacs being better. I found diminishing returns in dacs pretty quickly. Even when I upgraded to the Lampi 5 I still felt I shouldn't have spent though it was nice. It is the B7 that made me jump up and realize this was the most impactful hifi product I have heard after speakers. Listening to Trinity made me feel like I did with those other dacs, it was just another dac, good, but just another costly toy.
The other permanent product in my system is the Shun Mook diamond resonators. I sold off Stillpoints immediately, and I take them along to a lot of other audiophiles places who all prefer the Shun Mooks diamond resonators to whatever they have - stillpoints, symposium, etc. Put the Ultra or Giant diamond resonators under the Big 7 and your pre and you will see a tremendous lift in performance. Greg, the UK Lampi distributor, will tell you the same thing, I had put them under the dac at his place. Since then both of us also bought the Shun Mook power valve resonators for the rectifier on the Lampi. The valve resonators and the mpingo discs are small tweaks, but the diamond resonators are massive tweaks, and must haves IMO.
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USB is awesome for sure just like the exchange rate now , the exchange rate on my Psu was not good at all
I would like to know what power cables people found to have made a massive impact on the B7. So far the Tara Cobalt is my running favorite.
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Yes, out of Austria. My wife detests my current speakers and wants me to get the Pharaohs purely on aesthetics. In the US, the show a lot with Viva (which I own).
What are your current speaks?
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A heard some version of Lector CDP at Axpona in Atlanta several years back along with the German Vocative Arpeggio and it was one of my favorite sounds at the show. Old school digital but it was magic.
Ines Adler makes the Voxativ Ampeggio and the Due. Very nice and very pricey. She loved my SuperCD and UltraCD and that is why I got such a loong demo at the show…unprecedented, I am told. LoL
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119474)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119474)
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Ines Adler makes the Voxativ Ampeggio and the Due. Very nice and very pricey. She loved my SuperCD and UltraCD and that is why I got such a loong demo at the show…unprecedented, I am told. LoL
That's the Voxativ Ampeggio Due I heard, $100k, I think http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16600-Horn-Porn-tour-1-Voxativ-Ampeggio-Due
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Hi yes, Around 2 years ago I had compared it to a Weiss, Meitner, and AR Dac 8 and preferred the Meitner. After that I heard it separately in another system. My impression of it was it was neutral and detailed, but it was like any other dac, maybe more detailed, but not special. Tbh I am not an upgrader for the sake of upgrading. I was very happy with an used AR dac 8 purchased at 2k GBP, and I thought all the 'upgrades' to Weiss, Meitner, and CAD were a waste of money despite those dacs being better. I found diminishing returns in dacs pretty quickly. Even when I upgraded to the Lampi 5 I still felt I shouldn't have spent though it was nice. It is the B7 that made me jump up and realize this was the most impactful hifi product I have heard after speakers. Listening to Trinity made me feel like I did with those other dacs, it was just another dac, good, but just another costly toy.
The other permanent product in my system is the Shun Mook diamond resonators. I sold off Stillpoints immediately, and I take them along to a lot of other audiophiles places who all prefer the Shun Mooks diamond resonators to whatever they have - stillpoints, symposium, etc. Put the Ultra or Giant diamond resonators under the Big 7 and your pre and you will see a tremendous lift in performance. Greg, the UK Lampi distributor, will tell you the same thing, I had put them under the dac at his place. Since then both of us also bought the Shun Mook power valve resonators for the rectifier on the Lampi. The valve resonators and the mpingo discs are small tweaks, but the diamond resonators are massive tweaks, and must haves IMO.
The 7 is indeed a quantum leap over other dacs. I use Sistrum stands from Starsound technology which are good. I have not heard the Shun Mook stuff
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What are your current speaks?
Dale's which are superb but the aesthetics are a little sarcophagus-like (according to Heather)....
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Ines Adler makes the Voxativ Ampeggio and the Due. Very nice and very pricey. She loved my SuperCD and UltraCD and that is why I got such a loong demo at the show…unprecedented, I am told. LoL
I remember that vignette. I am jealous of your easy exposure to lots of audio jewelry in Europe. Very nice....
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The 7 is indeed a quantum leap over other dacs. I use Sistrum stands from Starsound technology which are good. I have not heard the Shun Mook stuff
Shun Mook seem to be the real deal…
The Dale speakers are aural candy…I would hate to see you give them up. (if looks are important, then Vienna Acoustics speakers are gorgeous). If innovation is important then Fischer+Fisher granite speakers are to be considered. Talk about INERT cabinet. Me, I love Heil tweeters and the Kithara would be my best choice.
Yes, the ampeggio Dues are very nice…same one that Bonzo linked. Saw them at the Zurich show. Ines shows with JoSound normally and Joe is a very good pal. I need to give him a call.
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Anima and that Berlin horn I.linked in a previous post much better IMO.
I have to decide if I go Anima or AA route. If I do AA, GT audio planar is a consideration as I can also blend it to MCH. For both the Anima and the AA Amphitryon I need to buy a slightly bigger flat.
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Wait, I thought this thread was only about the Lampi Big 7. What happened? :roll:
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Wait, I thought this thread was only about the Lampi Big 7. What happened? :roll:
No one had any inputs on the main topic, so now it's like a pub hangout
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That sounds good to me.
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Yes indeed. Very few seven owners have both which I find a little surprising. When time and money permits, I want to snag a Triangle table....the entry level model....
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Btw one of the rooms worth visiting is a 43 ft room in Vegas. I haven't been there yet, but the guy has just bought the 80k Martin Logan Neoliths
for the front two, and has moved his CLXs to the sides, with his ML prodigys in the rear. Each of the front 4 is connected to a Velodyne sub, and the rears to a Logan Descent sub. The centre channel is a stack of Logan theater channels, an array of five of them with the tweeter enabled only for one. Meridian processor.
He does use a BADA, so maybe Gopher or berto can take over a Lampi to him
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Btw one of the rooms worth visiting is a 43 ft room in Vegas. I haven't been there yet, but the guy has just bought the 80k Martin Logan Neoliths
for the front two, and has moved his CLXs to the sides, with his ML prodigys in the rear. Each of the front 4 is connected to a Velodyne sub, and the rears to a Logan Descent sub. The centre channel is a stack of Logan theater channels, an array of five of them with the tweeter enabled only for one. Meridian processor.
He does use a BADA, so maybe Gopher or berto can take over a Lampi to him
That sounds like fun. One of the better home theater demos I've heard was Martin Logan and I'm in general fan of the speakers when properly implemented. Does he have a newer dac from Berkeley or previous generation?
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Not sure. The best MCH demos I have heard have been with Datasat dirac auro 3d processor. I heard a 13.4 system of B&Ws (I am not a fan of the speakers in 2ch) in a 7m * 3m room. Still possibly one of the best if not the best room I have been in.
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Norman was telling me about that company....Swiss correct?
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Norman was telling me about that company....Swiss correct?
Dunno. But datasat and Trinnov are the only real high end MCH processors. And Auro and Atmos are like Dolby, for processing sound. Dirac is the room corrector Datasat uses. if you hear an Auro 3d system do a church organ, you won't find any 2-ch system that does 10 percent of that church organ. They use it as a demo disc. You can hear it at CES, they might have it in other shows. They have it at Munich this year, I think.
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The Swiss company is illusonic and their main processor handles 16 channels and costs $20k. It uses Immersive sound tech "3D sound".
Goldmund Mimesis is 16 or 32 channels and uses Proteus and Leonard DRC and time domain correction, but not 3D.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119472)
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For what it's worth, Mike over at Audioshark has a Kronos Sparta turntable with a very fine ZYX cartridge and posted some thoughts comparing it to the Big 7:
As for what most resembles the Vinyl I played this morning of the same album, it's the Lampi. With the Lampi perhaps even creating more of an intimate performance likely due to the tubes at source. It just seemed to move you up a few rows if you know what I mean. I suspect a good tube phonostage would do the same thing.
Mike if I may ask you a question. Going from vinyl to dsd with the lampi. Do you find the dsd to be a little more dynamic over vinyl ? - AL
Not really. I would say the opposite, but I am using the new ZYX Universe Premium Cart which is very dynamic. The Lampi seemed richer though and obviously dead quiet!
I enjoyed the overall performance of the Lampi for this album the best because of the intimacy it created. It just brought me into the band, if you know what I mean.
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Fred, he had the unit for just a few days correct? I am not sure what to make of his opinion as he also though PCM was average through the 7?
I have polled one former B7 owner and two current GG owners about vinyl off the record and they still preferred vinyl. I own the 7 but still desire vinyl. Even my wife says I should get a turntable. :lol:
Its obviously a matter of taste as the OP and other feels differently. I think owning both is the obvious answer due to source material limitations. I am inheriting my paternal grandmother's record collection soon. She was a classically trained pianist, and I cannot wait to pay homage to her (since she is probably why I am in the hobby....)
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I love vinyl, but don't have the time to listen to it every night. LampizatOr solved that issue. Now I need to sell my thorens td160 because I got an AMG. When I listen to vinyl, I prefer it.
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Fred, he had the unit for just a few days correct? I am not sure what to make of his opinion as he also though PCM was average through the 7?
I have polled one former B7 owner and two current GG owners about vinyl off the record and they still preferred vinyl. I own the 7 but still desire vinyl. Even my wife says I should get a turntable. :lol:
Its obviously a matter of taste as the OP and other feels differently. I think owning both is the obvious answer due to source material limitations. I am inheriting my paternal grandmother's record collection soon. She was a classically trained pianist, and I cannot wait to pay homage to her (since she is probably why I am in the hobby....)
LoL
One of those GG owners have 4 of the best TTs in existence, so cant possibly count. I am completely NOT a TT lover, but even I had to drool. Talk about absolutist no-hold barred design! Only the Mystere could have added any cahet to those 4 behemoths.
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Fred, he had the unit for just a few days correct? I am not sure what to make of his opinion as he also though PCM was average through the 7?
I have polled one former B7 owner and two current GG owners about vinyl off the record and they still preferred vinyl. I own the 7 but still desire vinyl. Even my wife says I should get a turntable. :lol:
Its obviously a matter of taste as the OP and other feels differently. I think owning both is the obvious answer due to source material limitations. I am inheriting my paternal grandmother's record collection soon. She was a classically trained pianist, and I cannot wait to pay homage to her (since she is probably why I am in the hobby....)
Hi I don't have an opinion on high end TTs because I haven't compared. Hence the reason for me starting the thread.
Regarding those two GG owners, one is AC. What TT did the other have? And what TT did the former B7 owner have, and why is he former, what did he move to? Thanks
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Hi I don't have an opinion on high end TTs because I haven't compared. Hence the reason for me starting the thread.
Regarding those two GG owners, one is AC. What TT did the other have? And what TT did the former B7 owner have, and why is he former, what did he move to? Thanks
I can give you their contact information and you can ask them those questions directly for the sake of discretion.
Why did you start this thread? Do you feel the Lampi is missing something? What does your system consist of? Dedicated room or just an untreated living space?
I find that there is an inverse relationship between thread activity and system bliss. I know its true for me. I am currently in that transitional audio purgatory of system construction and thus a brief burst of thread activity although I find most of the banter unproductive (including my own).
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I can give you their contact information and you can ask them those questions directly for the sake of discretion.
Why did you start this thread? Do you feel the Lampi is missing something? What does your system consist of? Dedicated room or just an untreated living space?
I find that there is an inverse relationship between thread activity and system bliss. I know its true for me. I am currently in that transitional audio purgatory of system construction and thus a brief burst of thread activity although I find most of the banter unproductive (including my own).
My interest in audiophilia is pure addiction, to know what works and what doesn't. For me this hobby is less about music, I am not deluding myself, I get my music kicks from averaging one classical live show every week or two, and from youtube bootlegs of Led Zep. As far as audiophilia as a hobby is concerned, I am a demo addict, and a forum chat addict. And my OCD is channeled into comparing things and finding a new journey. Maybe it's my tendency to tick off a check list, get into details on something. I have listened to all the planars I wanted to, boxes before that sought out various horns, and demoed multiple amps, and almost all the main dacs. I have lost an interest in dacs totally. My interest in speakers has partially reduced except until something very new or different is brought to my attention.
I need a new journey. TT is the ideal candidate, though tough to demo as you can't carry a whole set up around and AB it like with a pre or a dac or a cable. So I started this thread because I was bored and wanted to chat, and this was at the top of mind.
I don't find banter unproductive, as I can take some things away. Keeps my workday interesting. Also, for example, Sfox mentioned AMG. Haven't heard it, and was not planning to, but now filed it away for future demo, as someone with Lampi ears likes it
Sure let me know their contacts. Thanks.
PS: mentioned my system before - I had Martin Logan Summits with AR Ref amps, now Verity Audio Leonores with Jadis, but building up to get a Tune Audio Anima or Analysis Audio type planar. Will never have a dedicated room, plan to continue living in central London for life
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Make sure to put this TT on your demo list then.
LumenWhite Mystere...you are welcome in advance. LoL
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interesting vignette from Fremer: http://www.analogplanet.com/content/coolclevelandcom-asks-cd-vs-vinyl-comparison
I like a lot of this issue is colored by bias and system voicing. I don't think you need to spend megabucks on a table to get good sound....
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interesting vignette from Fremer: http://www.analogplanet.com/content/coolclevelandcom-asks-cd-vs-vinyl-comparison
I like a lot of this issue is colored by bias and system voicing. I don't think you need to spend megabucks on a table to get good sound....
+1
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Quote from Mike owner of Audioshark in regards to Axpona 2015
"The decrease in vinyl/turntables at this show was also a big surprise."
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Kris Kosiba the midwest Berning rep ( and a very fine gentleman) had a very nice rig with a Artisan Fidelity turntable and Lehave speaks. The sound was excellent :thumb:
He contacted me right before the show to get a L4 as a source for Axpona and after. Taking advantage of the extra exposure , I fast tracked him a DAC and Lukasz Fikus himself brought it to Chicago.
Michael Fremer spend 1.5 hrs in his room. I was told he enjoyed the Lampi alot, but he's a diehard vinyl guy.
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/artisan-fidelity-turntables-drew-me-sound-made-me-stay
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Quote from Mike owner of Audioshark in regards to Axpona 2015
"The decrease in vinyl/turntables at this show was also a big surprise."
I did not feel there was a decrease. It seems to hover between 30-40% of the rooms, at least the full sized gear. What has really decreased are the number of optical drives.
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Compared in two systems over the weekend, both with esoteric K01. It blew the esoteric away, both owners agreed, though one of them had a 10mhz clock which to me seemed to make it close.
The one without the clock also had a shindo TT. Also a Shindo pre (second from top), Shindo monos, and the higher range audionote speaker. I could see where the TT was better, but didn't necessarily prefer it. It did a different soundstage to the Lampi. Seemed deep on the sides, but not in the middle, a bit loose. Tonality of some instruments was better, though less defined, though that seemed to be more vinyl vs CD thing. Lampi was played via SPDIF through esoteric
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From former B7 owner:
"Several rigs clearly beat my Big7...
Basis 1400 with rega rb300 tonearm and denon cart through supratek phono, very modest set up but sounded way more dense organic and smooth...
Townshend rock 7 with coincident phono, forgot what arm and cartridge....
Brinkmann, too extensive to list componnets, it was sota...."
and
"U are talking about a basis 1400 tt, very modest, but made my digital rig sound thin and uninvolving in comparison side by side....I was embarrassed to say the least and just glad I didn't talk too much sh... before hand....it was a big lesson for me..."
Again, this is obviously a matter of system building, taste, etc. I still prefer vinyl and I have no skin in the game. A TT is still in my future regardless.
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This is interesting, I haven't heard the Basis but I heard Townshend once against dcs puccini which I found very impressive. But very noisy. It had a real feel to it
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If I go TT it will be a 10 - 15k TT. No way can I have a Lampi 7 plus a modded PC with linear supplies, because then costs go up from 20 - 30k for front end only. If one goes TT, for me the dac should be minimal,for convenience streaming.
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and this individual had a SOTA computer as well. The burning question is how to make digital more palatable....possibly at the transport level? The L7 is the best I have heard in making it palatable but I still find my molars clenched from time to time....
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If I go TT it will be a 10 - 15k TT. No way can I have a Lampi 7 plus a modded PC with linear supplies, because then costs go up from 20 - 30k for front end only. If one goes TT, for me the dac should be minimal,for convenience streaming.
agreed
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Not sure I follow that logic, but ok.
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Images on what I posted yesterday
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119978)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=119979)
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Quote from Mike owner of Audioshark in regards to Axpona 2015
"The decrease in vinyl/turntables at this show was also a big surprise."
That is interesting. Especially when you have companies like Acoustic Sounds investing in Vinyl LPs further, buying additional pressing plants, releasing and announcing more titles.
I wonder what the landscape will look like for Vinyl at the upcoming Newport Beach (The Show) and Denver (RMAF) audio shows.
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So, this quote is from the owner of a Goldmund Reference TT, Goldmund CD player, and Devialiet. His digital is mostly streaming throup a normal desktop into a Devialet. He owns both the 100k+ Goldmund Epilogue Speakers as well as the Tune Audio Anima (my favoriote speaker)
"I mainly listen to classical music. There the loudness wars have not encroached. I do have a couple of LPs which I prefer to the CD version (possibly because of the extra reverb added by my record player) but in general CD is better for classical releases IME.
And that is with a record playing system very, very much more expensive than my CD playing system, though IME the difference due to spending more on a record player is hugely more than spending more on a CD player."
Source http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?103754-High-End-Digital-vs-Vinyl-Sound-quality&highlight=kronos
Well he lives not far. In June or so I will probably head over with my B7. I also located a Kronos and a Clearaudio Innovation close to me, so that should be fun.
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Tell him to stay FAAAARR away from the Goldmund Logus Anatta speaker system or he may find himself $250K poorer (Speaker and Mimesis processor cost).
That system was astonishingly good.
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Tell him to stay FAAAARR away from the Goldmund Logus Anatta speaker system or he may find himself $250K poorer (Speaker and Mimesis processor cost).
That system was astonishingly good.
Animas will be his last speaker. I think they will be my last speakers too, when I can get around to buying them. Only problem then is will I get bored settling down. With Hifi it's good to keep playing the field like a teenager rather than settling down like a guy in the 80s
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Animas will be his last speaker. I think they will be my last speakers too, when I can get around to buying them. Only problem then is will I get bored settling down. With Hifi it's good to keep playing the field like a teenager rather than settling down like a guy in the 80s
Bonzo, you get a gold star for self-insight. At least you understand and are aware of your pathology. :lol:
The Goldmund stuff looks like fun. Dale Pitcher is a fan and credits them with being at the forefront of mechanical grounding, etc. True engineers at work. What would they think of Lampi? Will the scopes be pulled out?
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Goldmund actually made a tube amp (one only) back in the day. I have a picture.
Goldmund is SS focussed, so they would not like Lampi tech. LoL
They are also not DSD focussed as they are really into DRC.
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Goldmund actually made a tube amp (one only) back in the day. I have a picture.
Goldmund is SS focussed, so they would not like Lampi tech. LoL
They are also not DSD focussed as they are really into DRC.
I know...it was a jest. Lampi is witchcraft or alchemy to Swiss engineers.....
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Not to Dartzeel or CH, they both would love to meet Lukasz and have a chat. They are intruigued about the "other side", as they are totally in the SS world.
Herve will get to hear the B7 in about a month and is excited (like a true audiophile). They are always curious to hear what others are doiing and are always supportive of other designers who are doing impressive work. I find these guys to have a LOT of professional courtesy.