AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: Tyson on 8 Dec 2016, 12:27 am
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EDIT - Full review is now up! Here you go - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147750.msg1580429#msg1580429
Alright, I just got in the new iFi iDSD Black, which I'll be comparing to my 2 year old iFi iDSD Silver, which has been my primary DAC over the past 2 years.
More to come....
Edit - the people at iFi tell me it takes about 500 hours for the Black to break in, I've got almost 200 hours on it now and I'm running it 24/7 so it should be just another 10 days or so to go.
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Subscribed
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Looking forward to it
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Here's hoping the break in goes down easy. :beer:
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Standing by!
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I love my dac2 so interested to see what you think of blk
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Awesome very interested in your findings! :D
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Thinkin' about getting one of these for a desktop rig and as a portable system paired with cans and a DAP.
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Down the road I can shoot you my Mojo if you want to compare the two. Be curious to hear how they compare. Great inexpensive audio gear out there.
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Looks interesting.........
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/11/ifi-audios-black-label-micro-idsd-can-go-everywhere-you-do/
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What is the biggest difference between idac2 and idsd dac?
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What is the biggest difference between idac2 and idsd dac?
Dac2 is a dedicated dac. No battery no headphone amp.
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I will watch with interest, as I frequently look to pick up good items like this when they are 1-2 years out of current, and the depreciation has been taken by someone else!
Looking forward to it.
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iFi is making some very good and interesting products like this DAC. Their accessories for USB, power and SPDIF connection are very impressive spec. wise.
The iDSD Black should sound better than the silver.
charles
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Dac2 is a dedicated dac. No battery no headphone amp.
One big distinction: the iDAC2 handles up to DSD256/ PCM384 whereas the iDSD does DSD512/ PCM768.
After getting HQPlayer & upsampling to DSD128 with my Gustard X20u, I see the future (at least mine anyway). I compared previous Decibel 16/44 sampling to HQPlayer DSD128 upsampling, & it was literally a night & day difference (the word gobsmacked comes to mind).
Only problem is in order to get DSD512 upsampling, you need a DAC capable of that & a SOTA computer with a 4 GHz processor & latest Windows OS.
Hopefully Tyson can take the iDSD BL to its highest capabilities as part of his review. Regardless, I'm looking forward to his findings.
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Down the road I can shoot you my Mojo if you want to compare the two. Be curious to hear how they compare. Great inexpensive audio gear out there.
Heck yeah!! I'd love to do that. In fact, if anyone wants to have it compared to any other piece of gear, let me know and I'd be happy to do it.
Brotherlove, I do upsample right now using Jriver on my server. I upsample anything that's 44, 88, or 176 to 352khz, while anything that's 48, 96, or 192 to 384kh. I find that if you keep the multiples evenly divisible by the original sample size, it sounds better. I haven't tried anything higher than that, but maybe I should....
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... I upsample anything that's 44, 88, or 176 to 352khz, while anything that's 48, 96, or 192 to 384kh. I find that if you keep the multiples evenly divisible by the original sample size, it sounds better. I haven't tried anything higher than that, but maybe I should....
For me, the diff in PCM 384k Hz to DSD128/ 5.6 MHz was not as huge a leap, but still better. I know, let's do some YouTube videos & compare! :lol:
I can't exceed DSD128 (bound by OS-X DoP max & processor-limited 2011Mac Mini), but sources I trust say that DSD512 upsampling is a major improvement esp. w/ Windows 10 Pro.
I have an iTube & am very impressed w/ iFi Audio. They use the Burr-Brown chips in the iDSD which I always liked (had a Rotel CD player that implemented them nicely). Interested to see how much of an improvement that you hear w/ the BL-version.
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What's the list and street price of the iDSD BL?
George
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Retail - $550.
Street price - good luck
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Quick update on how things are going. Man this thing is taking for ever to burn in. Per iFi, they put 48 hours of burn in before sending any units out. I got it a week ago and have been running it 24/7 since then. The entire past week it's been alternating between being etched/sharp sounding one day, and completely muffled the next day.
However, TODAY there's been a break in the clouds and it's sounding marvelous - open, clear and musical. And with a lot more boogie and jump factor than my old iFi Silver iDSD.
I'm sure this won't last because per iFi, full burn in takes about 500 hours. But so far the 200 hour mark has been pretty awesome.
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Thanks for the update Tyson...keepem' coming :D
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Quick update on how things are going. Man this thing is taking for ever to burn in. Per iFi, they put 48 hours of burn in before sending any units out. I got it a week ago and have been running it 24/7 since then. The entire past week it's been alternating between being etched/sharp sounding one day, and completely muffled the next day.
However, TODAY there's been a break in the clouds and it's sounding marvelous - open, clear and musical. And with a lot more boogie and jump factor than my old iFi Silver iDSD.
I'm sure this won't last because per iFi, full burn in takes about 500 hours. But so far the 200 hour mark has been pretty awesome.
+1
My AMR dac took about 650 hours. AMR is the maker of IFI, but everyone here no doubt knows that.
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Yes, you are right! In my experience it's the caps in the power supply that cause the ruckus. Ultimately the better quality PSU caps sound much, much better than lower quality PSU caps. But getting those high quality PSU caps burned in is a bumpy ride, indeed.
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Someone asked me to review how the iDSD Black sounds without the $400 iUSB3 in front of it. I think that's a good idea. In fact, I'll include in the review 3 different levels of filtration:
1. No filtration at all, just the iDSD plugged straight into my PC
2. Cheap level filtration - put an iSilencer in the signal path
3. Final level - put the iUSB3 between the PC and iDSD
We'll see how it goes....
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Man, I was at my wit's end today, burn in was still taking forever and I just couldn't get that digital edge to go away, even though I'm now at over 300 hours on this thing. Then I realized I'd made 2 changes in JRiver when I put the Black inline.
First, I'd turned on upsampling for everything but the DSD files. So 44, 88, 176 were all getting upsampled to 352khz, and 48, 96, and 192 were all getting upsampled to 384. So I reverted all that back to no upsampling at all for anything.
Second, I'd turned off the "Play Track from Memory" option that Jriver has. It was not playing nice with the upsampling options I'd turned on. Getting rid of the upsampling allowed me to turn it back on.
Result? Much more natural sound, closer to what I'm used to with the Silver. And the bass & especially dynamics are EVEN BETTER! Wow. OK, that's today's update.
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I have a ifi Dac 2 using a dual head usb, part for power, part for info. Would the USB 3 be an upgrade ? If so, would you use the dual head usb with the usb3 or just singles?
Thoughts.
MacMini to iDac2, RCA out to ACA amps
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Really interested here! As several folks have said about the silver nano and micro, try them in your main system too -- you might just be surprised. At least 3 of these folks have shelved their expensive DACs in favor of the iFi portables.
-- Jim
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I have a ifi Dac 2 using a dual head usb, part for power, part for info. Would the USB 3 be an upgrade ? If so, would you use the dual head usb with the usb3 or just singles?
Thoughts.
MacMini to iDac2, RCA out to ACA amps
Yes, the iUSB3 is a big upgrade. Or at least it was with the Silver. I haven't tried the Black without it yet. I'll give it a try in the next few days, so check back in this thread.
Really interested here! As several folks have said about the silver nano and micro, try them in your main system too -- you might just be surprised. At least 3 of these folks have shelved their expensive DACs in favor of the iFi portables.
-- Jim
I've been using the Silver micro iDSD with the iUSB3 and a Regen in my main system for 2 years now. You really have to go to Vega level DAC to best it, IMO. And even then it's quite close, IMO.
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The Nano iDSD, once burned in is/was a huge musical surprise. 10 hours from its battery is a mega bonus, to me... iFi house sound is remarkable. It is my source in a small, laser-like, off the grid nearfield set up, and it easily not only passes the acid test but makes a great contribution to this kind of listening, cherry picking well produced material, streamed in 320. Highly recommended. Good to hear user feedback about the USB filtration stuff as well.
I am very interested in hearing more about the black, all nice bits, version. Thorsten rocks!
My personal iFi fantasy box would be an iTube2 using a 6SN7 or similar..
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HQPlayer is suppose to kill Jriver for sound quality. If you have a powerful Windows 10 computer and upsample all files to 512DSD with HQplayer and run directly into the IFI that way it is said to be way, way out there. A powerful windows 10 build with HQplayer would set you back maybe $1200 including Audio Fidelizer Pro. From what people have said....this is killer. This is the only DAC under $1000, that I know of, that can take DSD512 via usb. Apparently upsampling to 512DSD is suppose to sound way better than 256.....this is all with HQPlayer.
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HQPlayer is suppose to kill Jriver for sound quality. If you have a powerful Windows 10 computer and upsample all files to 512DSD with HQplayer and run directly into the IFI that way it is said to be way, way out there. A powerful windows 10 build with HQplayer would set you back maybe $1200 including Audio Fidelizer Pro. From what people have said....this is killer. This is the only DAC under $1000, that I know of, that can take DSD512 via usb. Apparently upsampling to 512DSD is suppose to sound way better than 256.....this is all with HQPlayer.
Sorry, not gonna spend $1200 to make a $500 DAC sound better. I'm just not.
Edit - Actually I just checked and I am running Windows 10 64-bit on my music server, I do have a 3.5GHZ Intel I7 in there, and I do have 12GB of RAM. I wonder, is this enough to use the HQ player to upsample as you (and others) have suggested?
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Tyson,
I do believe there is a trial period for HQplayer. So, maybe just download it and see if you can get DSD at whatever speed to go to your DAC. Check out the posts online to find the appropriate settings.....lots of different ways to use HQplayer. The guy (Quadman/John Makela) is rewriting the thing he did for me on my website and I am hoping he includes the HQplayer settings he uses. Audiofidelizer Pro is suppose to make the computer sound better too.....I think it is $75.
Ric
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Sorry, not gonna spend $1200 to make a $500 DAC sound better. I'm just not.
Edit - Actually I just checked and I am running Windows 10 64-bit on my music server, I do have a 3.5GHZ Intel I7 in there, and I do have 12GB of RAM. I wonder, is this enough to use the HQ player to upsample as you (and others) have suggested?
Is your i7 quad core? You could most definitely do DSD256 at a minimum (poster on ComputerAudiophile is using Skylake G4400 3.3 gHz dual core @ DSD256 & CPU usage is 50% with Daphile). Max may depend on whether you use Roon or not.
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OK, I got the HQ Player installed and set up properly. It's a bit tricky at first, but once you get the settings dialed in, you are set. So I can confirm that my server is able to do DSD256 conversion, no problem. Listening to it now - definitely a big improvement!! Was it worth it? Well its free to try, so check it out. In my system it's definitely kicking Jriver to the curb.
What improvement is there? With native DSD files, eh, not much. With PCM files - a lot! The PCM files get a lot closer to that 'analog-like' sound that DSD does so well. Edge drops away, and you can 'listen into' the music a bit more. Dynamic shading improves. Spatial information improves. In other words, things just sound more real. Nice.
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OK, some questions - what do I need to change the settings in HQPlayer to go from DSD256 to DSD512? There's a ton of options in the sampling rate menu but none of them are marked "DSD246" or "DSD512", they are all like 1228800 or 1638400 or other mysterious numbers like that.
And, how do I get ISO files to play on this thing? I can get DSF and DFF files to play, but not ISO. And I have a metric ton of ISO files and I will not be manually converting them.
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And, how do I get ISO files to play on this thing? I can get DSF and DFF files to play, but not ISO. And I have a metric ton of ISO files and I will not be manually converting them.
IF you get into a bind I can help convert them. My computer is very powerful and can batch convert them at a frightening pace. :)
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IF you get into a bind I can help convert them. My computer is very powerful and can batch convert them at a frightening pace. :)
Its not so much the conversion, as the extra storage space it would require. And all the tagging. Ugh.
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OK, some questions - what do I need to change the settings in HQPlayer to go from DSD256 to DSD512? There's a ton of options in the sampling rate menu but none of them are marked "DSD246" or "DSD512", they are all like 1228800 or 1638400 or other mysterious numbers like that.
The DSD number is a multiple of CD sample rate, so ...
DSD256 is 44,100 Hz x 256= 11,289,600 Hz or 11.2 MHz
DSD512 is 44,100 x 512 = 22,579,200 or 22.5 MHz
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The DSD number is a multiple of CD sample rate, so ...
DSD256 is 44,100 Hz x 256= 11,289,600 Hz or 11.2 MHz
DSD512 is 44,100 x 512 = 22,579,200 or 22.5 MHz
OK, thanks! I just tried to go to 512 and can't because the playback gets all static-y with those settings. But 256 works fine so I'll stick with that.
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Tyson,
If you haven't already, try "poly-sinc-shrt-mp-2s" for the SDM oversampling as the -2s filters are less demanding. You can also mess around with the buffer time to possibly improve matters.
Also, there is a HQPlayer user manual that should be part of the download which describes the filters & various settings. Steep learning curve, but well worth the effort.
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So I'm starting to realize that in order to do a good job with the review, I'm going to have to break it up into 2 parts. Otherwise there's just too much to cover in one review. So I'll split it into a DAC-ONLY review which will be first, and I'll follow up with a PORTABLE/HEADPHONE review later on.
And man, HQPlayer sounds so dang much better than Jriver, I just might take Jason up on his offer to rip my ISO files to DSF .... :o :lol:
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Somewhat o/t, but not entirely as I'm expecting one of these little goodies myself and am in the process of building my master music library:
In order to rip these ISO discs (same as SACD?) do you need an xbox 360, and will any one do, or do you need a special model, and how do you tell what that model is?
I have a neighbor who will give me his xbox 360 if I want it. He's done with it and will give it to me if I want it. I will obviously want it if it is the right thing and that is what I'm trying to figure out.
Thanks for any help on this.
I'm really jealous of Tyson for having one of these but if mine comes in after the amp section review, that's ok ;-).
Just have to ask this question too...
I am currently using a Metrum Musette (by far the best of the Metrum "Octaves -- true NOS R2R) and wonder how the sound might compare to this NOS dac?
Thanks,
Jim
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Somewhat o/t, but not entirely as I'm expecting one of these little goodies myself and am in the process of building my master music library:
In order to rip these ISO discs (same as SACD?) do you need an xbox 360, and will any one do, or do you need a special model, and how do you tell what that model is?
I have a neighbor who will give me his xbox 360 if I want it. He's done with it and will give it to me if I want it. I will obviously want it if it is the right thing and that is what I'm trying to figure out.
Thanks for any help on this.
I'm really jealous of Tyson for having one of these but if mine comes in after the amp section review, that's ok ;-).
Just have to ask this question too...
I am currently using a Metrum Musette (by far the best of the Metrum "Octaves -- true NOS R2R) and wonder how the sound might compare to this NOS dac?
Thanks,
Jim
There are threads like these - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146327.0
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In order to rip these ISO discs (same as SACD?) do you need an xbox 360, and will any one do, or do you need a special model, and how do you tell what that model is?
Thanks for any help on this.
Hi Jim, I'm no expert, but you said "any help." ;)
I think you need a Playstation, not XBox. Playstation and SACD/DSD are all Sony Corp. I'm not sure if Xbox can even play SACD?
I think the PS3 must be an older version with original, not upgraded firmware. Iirc, there is a range of early firmware versions that can rip SACDs. That's all I know!! I'm sure the real experts will be along shortly!
Good luck with the master music library! :thumb:
Rich
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Yep, an old playstation 3 is what you need. They are quite rare. I have one, I'd be happy to help out if you need anything ripped.
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Hi Tyson,
Thanks,
If I have any to do, it would only be a small handful -- Parvo Jardi - complete Beethoven symphonies. I also have these as needle drops, and it would be nice to compare.
Thanks,
Jim
P.S. -- Thanks Rich and I hope you're doing well!
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Full review is now up! Here you go - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147750.msg1580429#msg1580429