jRiver 20

*Scotty* · « **Reply #40 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 12:25 am »

Rich, you might be able to run it on your old XP. I suggest you download it and give it a try.
According the information contained in this thread you might have enough power.
I wouldn't expect too much from it running on XP as WASAPI is not available in the XP operating system.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=61049.0
Scotty

richidoo · « **Reply #41 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 04:18 am »

Thanks for the link Scotty. I'll give it a try. Good to know an expert in case I get hung up!

I have an ASIO soundcard so lack of wasapi is OK for now. But XP can't do loopback, so streaming music is out unless I spdif it in through the soundcard.

I'll get a stronger machine to do convolution but I'm curious about the sound quality before I jump in.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #42 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 04:33 am »

I would consider an i7 Quad-core processor and 8G with over 1G front-side buss speed. WIN 8 or WIN 8.1 are best sounding current PC OS.
Scotty

richidoo · « **Reply #43 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 05:11 am »

Scotty, Is the front size buss frequency a CPU spec or MB spec? Both I guess? I can't find FSB mentioned on chip or board specs.

edit: Found it... Core2 Extreme and Core2 Duo chips and MBs are >1Ghz.

DTB300 · « **Reply #44 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 10:01 am »

Scotty....maybe you missed my question about JR20 on the first page of the thread:

Quote

Quote from: *Scotty* on 1 Oct 2014, 07:44 pm
Nothing special was done in Settings between jRiver 19 and 20 other than being sure to use WASAPI and always enabling playback from memory in both players .

Maybe JR did an improvement in the WASAPI support code for the difference you heard.

Did you do any testing for ASIO or other drivers to see if the improvement was just with one interface and not with JR itself?

*Scotty* · « **Reply #45 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 01:28 pm »

My DAC does not use ASIO so I am unable to answer your question regarding it.
If you are using jRiver 19 with ASIO perhaps you could download jRiver 20 trial version and test for sonic differences between the two programs.
Scotty

DTB300 · « **Reply #46 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 05:38 pm »

Thanks for the reply. Maybe I will try the trial to see....

ttan98 · « **Reply #47 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 11:21 pm »

Scotty,

I am glad you wrote this thread to highlight the improvements of sound of Version 20 over previous versions. Recently I upgraded my V17 to V20. In Version 17 I found it to be not much better than some of the free player software available on the net. I found V20 to be a significant improvement over the V17 on Window 7.

My query is, has any compared using V20 running on ASIO vs Wasapi via Windows 7 or 8, is there a CLEAR winner or just very close to one another not to be bothered experimenting. Any comments anyone.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #48 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 12:01 am »

Quote

.... has any compared using V20 running on ASIO vs Wasapi via Windows 7 or 8,...

I am unaware of any comparisons of this nature.
DTB300 may run an A/B on ASIO between jRiver 19 and jRiver20 he might then have some answers to your question.
Tests of WIN 7 vs WIN 8/8.1 show WIN 8 to be a clear winner. This may be in part due to the fact that there are substantially less processes loaded and running on WIN8 compared with WIN 7. Optimization programs for WIN 7 could put it on par with WIN 8.
My Win 8 OS MS-2 Music Server has 13 running Background Processes and 23 Windows processes. In comparison, my unoptimized WIN 8 Toshiba Satellite 875 laptop has 57 Background Processes and 23 Windows processes. Obviously I don't expect great things sonically from my laptop.
Scotty

ltr317 · « **Reply #49 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 02:38 am »

Quote from: ttan98 on 8 Oct 2014, 11:21 pm

Scotty,

I am glad you wrote this thread to highlight the improvements of sound of Version 20 over previous versions. Recently I upgraded my V17 to V20. In Version 17 I found it to be not much better than some of the free player software available on the net. I found V20 to be a significant improvement over the V17 on Window 7.

My query is, has any compared using V20 running on ASIO vs Wasapi via Windows 7 or 8, is there a CLEAR winner or just very close to one another not to be bothered experimenting. Any comments anyone.

I have JRiver 19 (running Windows

and compared WASAPI vs ASIO in Part 2 of my iFi-audio devices review. The WASAPI sounded more natural with better harmonics. Several readers who were using ASIO decided to do the comparison after reading my review, and reported they ended up preferring WASAPI as well. I haven't upgraded to V20 yet because I bought V19 right before the latest version came out. If you do get V20 report back and let us know which format you prefer.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #50 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 02:55 am »

ltr317, you can easily download the trial version of jRiver 20 and do an A/B comparison between the two. See link
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129153.msg1365828#msg1365828
I think you will find that jRiver 20 has improved sonics compared to 19.
Scotty

richidoo · « **Reply #51 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 03:08 am »

Oh yeah! JRiver is MUCH better than my Sonos, as expected. Pretty easy to setup. XP, ASIO. So far it's plenty of CPU for 2ch with a couple EQ effects.

2 things I want to try:
Active crossovers in the PEQ section: Gotta learn how to setup multichannel in JRiver.

JPlay: My friend said it sounds really great with JRiver, supposed to prevent Windows from screwing up the music. Maybe it will be similar to an OS upgrade. Scotty have you tried jplay with Jriver?

Jon L · « **Reply #52 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 03:22 am »

Quote from: richidoo on 9 Oct 2014, 03:08 am

JPlay: My friend said it sounds really great with JRiver, supposed to prevent Windows from screwing up the music. Maybe it will be similar to an OS upgrade. Scotty have you tried jplay with Jriver?

If one has some time to kill, it can be amusing to read about how Jriver "will not provide support for Media Center if Jplay is used."
http://www.jriver.com/jplay.html

And the following Jplay response:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/jplay-responds-open-letter

In my system, Jplay makes a big difference, especially in "hibernate" mode.

richidoo · « **Reply #53 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 03:38 am »

No Jplay on XP... oh well. Lots of other issues with XP, but this XP box is just my little proof of concept anyway, and I'm very happy with the improvement.

ttan98 · « **Reply #54 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 04:44 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 9 Oct 2014, 12:01 am

I am unaware of any comparisons of this nature.
DTB300 may run an A/B on ASIO between jRiver 19 and jRiver20 he might then have some answers to your question.
Tests of WIN 7 vs WIN 8/8.1 show WIN 8 to be a clear winner. This may be in part due to the fact that there are substantially less processes loaded and running on WIN8 compared with WIN 7. Optimization programs for WIN 7 could put it on par with WIN 8.
My Win 8 OS MS-2 Music Server has 13 running Background Processes and 23 Windows processes. In comparison, my unoptimized WIN 8 Toshiba Satellite 875 laptop has 57 Background Processes and 23 Windows processes. Obviously I don't expect great things sonically from my laptop.
Scotty

I am not sure you know there is a software you can running in the background before using JRiver, it is called Fidelizer, v6.1 what it does is to inhibit processes that are not essential to the audio and set the audio player software the prime process. Try it to see whether it improves your sound. BTW the software is free, do a search it is easy to find.

Many people claim Window 8 sounds better than 7, I am not so sure, I suspect if you run Fidelizer in the background both OS "may" sound the similar. The best way I find is close all apps and processes that are not essential to audio that way you minimise the processes running in the fore or background.

Also you run the software to check the PC/laptop system latency, it should be around 300mS or less, the software is called DPC latency checker, after checking you can close it. Do a search you can find it.

ttan98 · « **Reply #55 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 04:50 am »

Quote from: ltr317 on 9 Oct 2014, 02:38 am

I have JRiver 19 (running Windows and compared WASAPI vs ASIO in Part 2 of my iFi-audio devices review. The WASAPI sounded more natural with better harmonics. Several readers who were using ASIO decided to do the comparison after reading my review, and reported they ended up preferring WASAPI as well. I haven't upgraded to V20 yet because I bought V19 right before the latest version came out. If you do get V20 report back and let us know which format you prefer.

Thanks for the tip, I will try. My initial impression is not that much different. I will it an extended period of comparison. My suspicion is that between V19 and V20 the sound reproduction will be similar unlike between V17 and V20 a big difference.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #56 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 05:23 am »

Rich, I am kind of put off by the price.
From the website:
"The price for a single license is 99EUR and it includes 32 and 64bit installer in one package, free lifetime upgrades and personal support directly from authors.
We will provide you with the fully working player shortly after your payment."
By my reckoning that's a lot of beer and pizza or a good bottle of single malt.
I downloaded ASIO4ALL and I slightly prefer it over WASAPI with jRiver 20. I suspect the ASIO results may be a matter of taste and somewhat system dependent. It is also a little flaky and does not always initialize.
Scotty

*Scotty* · « **Reply #57 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 05:50 am »

ttan98, at this time DPC latency checker is currently incompatible with WIN 8 due to changes in the implementation of the kernel timer between WIN 7 and WIN 8. They say they are going to release a WIN 8 compatible version at some point in the future.
Scotty

richidoo · « **Reply #58 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 06:04 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 9 Oct 2014, 05:23 am

Rich, I am kind of put off by the price.

Me too

Quote from: *Scotty* on 9 Oct 2014, 05:23 am

I suspect the ASIO results may be a matter of taste and somewhat system dependent. It is also a little flaky and does not always initialize.

Presonus ASIO driver has been pretty stable for me, but it did flake on me when I didn't follow installation instructions exactly.

I've been reading tonight about setting up active crossovers in JR. Seems a bit complicated but doable.

AKLegal · « **Reply #59 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 11:15 am »

JPlay made absolutely no difference in my system other than dramatically increasing probability of J River or Windows 8.1 crashing.