[JLM]

JLM - What speakers are these and how do you like them - are they the JBL 708p?

Yes, they are JBL 708Ps.  See my review at the Critic's Circle.  The new sand filled stands seem to tighten up the sound, especially the bass even more.

[JLM]

Seriously - where does JBL publish their mesaurements?

Some of the specifications from the owner's manual:

                                                 705                    708
LF Driver Size                        127mm(5")         203mm(8")
HF Driver Size                        25mm(1")           25mm(1")
HF Driver Type                     JBL 2409H Compression Driver
Crossover                               1750 Hz             1700 Hz
Power Configuration              Bi-Amplified        Bi-Amplified
HF Power Amp                                 250W Class D
LF Power Amp                                 250W Class D
Freq. Response (+/- 3 dB)       45-25KHz            41-25kHz
LF Extension (-10 dB)                  39Hz                  35Hz
HF Range (-10 dB)                      32kHz                31kHz
Max Cont SPL                            101 dB               108 dB
Max Peak SPL                            107 dB               114 dB
HWD (mm)                            268x151x274    441x250x312
Weight (kg)                                5.68                   11.5

[dburna]

Sweetwater Customer Service

My experience at Sweetwater was top-notch. I had support from two (yes, two) salespeople who were kind, funny, knowledgeable, and helpful in every way. The 705Ps were set up when I got there, but the 708s were not. The sales staff called to the warehouse (on the other side of the facility) and, within minutes, had a pair of new 708s unboxed and set up for comparison purposes. Wow. Just wow. You can't get that kind of service pretty much anywhere else. They told me that sales staff will do that for customers in almost every department -- reason enough to visit there in-person.

My service was so great that I have to mention both of these folks by name: Liz Wolford and Paul Fox. Liz was moving from floor sales to telephone sales, so she's probably in her new position by now. But seriously, ask for either of these two by name. Tell 'em I sent you....or don't. Doesn't matter -- you will get great support from both of these folks.

All I got while at Sweetwater was help from sales staff that seemed genuinely happy to be there, knowledgeable, and intellectually curious when I brought up new topics. They wanted to figure out the answers as much as I did. This is a sign of an organization that hires good people and supports them to do the best job possible for the customer. I think I was in demoing active monitors for 2.5 hours. I didn't expect to stay that long, but it was such a fun experience and I couldn't leave. Finally left when I needed to get the rental car back before the agency closed for the day.

Liz and Paul, thank you for all your help. I will be telling anyone interested in musical gear (of any kind) that they should shop only at Sweetwater....and that they should make trip to visit this "musical candy store" if they are within driving distance of Ft. Wayne, IN.

Seriously, if you are on-the-fence about taking the drive, just go. I am certain you'll have a great experience there.

To Sweetwater Corporate: you folks run a class organization. I am most impressed.   


-dGB

[TomS]

Sweetwater Customer Service

My experience at Sweetwater was top-notch. I had support from two (yes, two) salespeople who were kind, funny, knowledgeable, and helpful in every way. The 705Ps were set up when I got there, but the 708s were not. The sales staff called to the warehouse (on the other side of the facility) and, within minutes, had a pair of new 708s unboxed and set up for comparison purposes. Wow. Just wow. You can't get that kind of service pretty much anywhere else. They told me that sales staff will do that for customers in almost every department -- reason enough to visit there in-person.

My service was so great that I have to mention both of these folks by name: Liz Wolford and Paul Fox. Liz was moving from floor sales to telephone sales, so she's probably in her new position by now. But seriously, ask for either of these two by name. Tell 'em I sent you....or don't. Doesn't matter -- you will get great support from both of these folks.

All I got while at Sweetwater was help from sales staff that seemed genuinely happy to be there, knowledgeable, and intellectually curious when I brought up new topics. They wanted to figure out the answers as much as I did. This is a sign of an organization that hires good people and supports them to do the best job possible for the customer. I think I was in demoing active monitors for 2.5 hours. I didn't expect to stay that long, but it was such a fun experience and I couldn't leave. Finally left when I needed to get the rental car back before the agency closed for the day.

Liz and Paul, thank you for all your help. I will be telling anyone interested in musical gear (of any kind) that they should shop only at Sweetwater....and that they should make trip to visit this "musical candy store" if they are within driving distance of Ft. Wayne, IN.

Seriously, if you are on-the-fence about taking the drive, just go. I am certain you'll have a great experience there.

To Sweetwater Corporate: you folks run a class organization. I am most impressed.   


-dGB

I spent most of my life in Ft. Wayne and it was really cool to watch Chuck Surack build this company from nothing to what it is today. He is a class act and the workforce reflects that as well.

[Jonathon Janusz]

Seriously - where does JBL publish their mesaurements?

I didn't see the measurements for the 708p/i in the data sheets on JBL's website either.  Reading this thread from early in the life of these speakers on AVSForum:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2515137-official-jbl-synthesis-pro-revel-home-theater-thread-60.html

John Schuermann appears to have provided the spins for the folks in that thread, as he is a Harman dealer, and considering the speakers under discussion are (theoretically) marketed primarily to either the professional or custom installer market, I'd guess the answer to that question is that JBL publishes this kind of data and distributes it through their dealer network, and it just happens over time that it gets "leaked" in to the wild on the Internet one way or another.

[JLM]

JBL M2, 7, and even the 3 series are meant for professional use and as such are not marketed to finicky audiophiles.  Professionals look for serious workhorses, not showy thoroughbreds.  These workhorses are needed to: not break under tough use; continue to perform accurately under various conditions/loadings, and be very revealing.  Professionals can't afford to have a bad mix that doesn't translate well or a bank of speakers fail right before a concert.  Audiophiles simply want to be entertained, to hear what they want to hear.  That's a much more subjective target to hit.

Yes, the 705i, 708i, and M2 are designed without crossovers or amps to accommodate multi-channel built-in professional installations, while the 705P and 708P come with crossovers, amps, and digital inputs (with DACs, 12 bands of PEQ, etc.).  Audiophiles are definitely crossing over into the prosumer realm with these speakers where editorializing is unneeded. 

[charmerci]

4. Cabinet resonance: as other AC posters have noted, all the JBL 3-Series and 7-Series I have heard have cabinet resonances. These 7-Series cabinets are well-designed, but they are not as inert as other "audiophile" speakers I have heard. When you pump some volume through both, you can feel the cabinet vibrations on the side and top. This effect happens earlier in the 705s, but it exists in both models. So, the common wisdom indicates that where there is cabinet resonance there is coloration/distortion. So why couldn't I hear any? Both speakers seem unfazed sonically even though their cabinets are vibrating somewhat. To explain this (partially), I can only assume that the JBL engineers did some very careful tweaking with the DSP engine to reduce/eliminate this effect. Hard as I tried, I couldn't hear the cabinet resonance, even though I knew from hands-on inspection that the resonances existed. Engineering magic, I guess.....it was the darnedest thing, but I admit defeat in not being able to pinpoint any resonance effects.

Yes, they are JBL 708Ps.  See my review at the Critic's Circle.  The new sand filled stands seem to tighten up the sound, especially the bass even more.

I would very interested and hope that someone out there would brace (or N-Rez line the interior of) the cabinets and report back. I think it would make a big difference in the sound - as I found with the 305P's.

[macrojack]

The quote you chose from dburna states very clearly that, despite his best efforts at targeting an audible resonance problem, he could detect none. How do you see bracing improving on that situation?
Also, you speculate that the measures you suggest would create a "difference". Quite possibly you are correct about that - but a difference is not necessarily an improvement.
As you know, I own the 705P model.

[JLM]

I would very interested and hope that someone out there would brace (or N-Rez line the interior of) the cabinets and report back. I think it would make a big difference in the sound - as I found with the 305P's.

Not going to mess with my 708Ps or second guess JBL designers.

[charmerci]

Not going to mess with my 708Ps or second guess JBL designers.

Cost me 3 dollars to cut three pieces/ dowels and wedge them against the sides and top to bottom and add non-drying clay to the metal baskets. All of that can easily be undone. All those vibrations are putting out sounds and the woofers are not "snapping back and forth" as quickly as they should be. (Newton's Third - For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.)

Nevertheless, anyway, whatever.

[JLM]

The JBL LSR 305 is a fine product especially at the asking price.  But they're obviously built to a price point and JBL is constantly refining their offerings, thus the 305 Mk2 and 705P which are very good performers.  The 705P and 708P are JBL's "Reference Studio Monitors", so while the design concepts are the same and they look similar, they are in a whole league up from the remarkable 305 as reflected in the pricing.  Much of the price difference is due to the extensive R&D efforts (that trickle down to lesser monitors like the 305) and the naturally limited production volumes of higher priced products.

Some people just can't leave well enough alone.  DIYers and certain lone wolf vendors can't seem to resist dinking around and trying to prove they can "outdo" the big boys to satisfy egos.  Compared to the massive resources that a company like JBL brings to the table for top drawer products like the 705P and 708P monitors, dinking around is exactly what a $3 "fix" is.  JBL Pro has a long history, extensive R&D facilities/personnel, and wonderful service that 98% of other companies would trade for in an instant.  JBL staff present papers and are recognized as leaders in their fields.  They're the ones intelligent others go to for answers.  Their monitors serve professionals, who earn a living by using those speakers at leading studios versus just following individual tastes for entertainment sake or using kindergarten technology.

So mess around with your 305s if you like, but don't insult yourself by thinking that JBL designers haven't heard of Newton's 3rd Law or throughly engineered the 705P and 708P.

[macrojack]

Thanks, JLM, for discouraging ill-conceived desecration. I am daily in awe of what JBL has accomplished with the design and implementation present in my 705P monitors. It is beyond imagination that someone could improve upon these speakers with cheap tweaks. In fact, I wonder if anyone can improve upon them at all.They are incredible performers.

[jtwrace]

It is beyond imagination that someone could improve upon these speakers with cheap tweaks.

If one wants to believe in voodoo, then yes.  It's laughable and sadly so many buy into that crazy logic. 

[Letitroll98]

If any model speaker couldn't in any way be improved upon then one would have to assume that model is the sought after holy grail of the perfect speaker and all other brands would go out of business as there would be little sense in building anything else.  Since that is not the case one logically assumes any speaker can be improved upon.  There have been speakers designed where flexing of the cabinet is designed in, the other 99% of designs usually rely on as inert of a cabinet as is practical at the price point.  If there's a white paper on the JBL 3 and 7 series having cabinet flex designed in I haven't seen it, so I'd assume JBL engineers don't think whatever is there is important, that doesn't mean they're correct.

[OzarkTom]

If one wants to believe in voodoo, then yes.  It's laughable and sadly so many buy into that crazy logic.

So you do not believe in differences of wiring?

[macrojack]

In the interest of keeping a touch with sanity, may I humbly suggest that those of you who are limited to speculation about JBL's 7 Series, please refrain from sharing your guesses with us. If ever you can return with informed commentary, you will be welcomed with open arms.

JBL did unbelievably well in designing these little speakers I use. They have been in continual use in my listening room for a couple of months now and they have shown me no weakness.

Have a listen to them. It will add immeasurably to your credibility when discussing their merits.

[kingdeezie]

If any model speaker couldn't in any way be improved upon then one would have to assume that model is the sought after holy grail of the perfect speaker and all other brands would go out of business as there would be little sense in building anything else.  Since that is not the case one logically assumes any speaker can be improved upon.  There have been speakers designed where flexing of the cabinet is designed in, the other 99% of designs usually rely on as inert of a cabinet as is practical at the price point.  If there's a white paper on the JBL 3 and 7 series having cabinet flex designed in I haven't seen it, so I'd assume JBL engineers don't think whatever is there is important, that doesn't mean they're correct.

To add to this point, the 708P is also still built to a price point. Outside of parts and R&D built into the cost, there is also massive amounts of overhead needed to keep JBL functioning. I imagine they have thousands of employees working for them, brick and mortar costs, etc, etc.

More importantly, more bracing or resonance control methods, could add significantly to the weight of the product. Right now, they are only 38 pounds.

I would assume they are designed to be some what portable, as they have handles built into the sides. More weight added to the speakers and for the average professional, there starts a road to less convenience. Also greatly increases the shipping costs for the product, which would further lead to more cost.

[Russell Dawkins]

You all might be interested in knowing that Charles Sprinkle, who was the acoustic design engineer on the 7 series of JBL speakers, is the design engineer for a one-year-old company called Kali Audio. They have just come on the market with two extremely competitively priced powered speakers for the studio market: the LP-6 and the LP-8. Their pricing is about the same as for the LSR 305 and 308. The design criteria include—apart from tonal neutrality—"controlled directivity, low distortion, and boundary compensation", according to an email I received from Charles in response to a query of mine.

Kali are publishing some fairly detailed specs, too. The LP-8's distortion specs are better than the already low LP-6: https://www.kaliaudio.com/lone-pine-detail
graphs for LP-6: https://www.kaliaudio.com/lp6-technology-frequency-response
graphs for LP-8 have not been published yet; it has only been on the market for about a month.
Initial reviews have been very good.

If I didn't have a pair of 705Ps and were on a tight budget I would be looking very closely at these.

[Tyson]

It's interesting to hear faith-based statements from people who seem to otherwise be objectivists. 

[charmerci]

Come on. I'm not saying that the 705/8's are a bad speaker by any means or the JBL engineers do not know what they are doing. But dburna says that the speakers are vibrating on the tops and sides and JLM says that the bass tightened up when put on a solid bass. You might not hear distortion but clearly some basic physics is effecting them here - dburna and JLM clearly say so! And that makes me the bad guy?


Somewhere on youtube, I listened to Andrew Jones video on speaker design where he discusses that you can't just put in the best parts in there because when you do, they have the raise the price up to a much higher price point.


Just because they are $2000 speakers does NOT mean that the company isn't making compromises somewhere. If they weren't then they'd be much more expensive, wouldn't they?


But perhaps you are right, these are perfect and they don't sell more expensive speakers....ahem.