Logitech Touch finally released!

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Apr 2010, 01:30 am »

What are the power supply requirements for the SB Touch? Is it the same as the SB3?

Anand.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #21 on:** 20 Apr 2010, 03:22 am »

Anand,

The Touch stock PS is rated at 3 amps vs 2 amps for the SB 2&3. I have not measured the actual current draw of the Touch at this point. The higher rating is so it can supply some hard drives through it's USB port. If you are not using the USB, 2 amps should be plenty. BTW all of the PS I have sold will supply 4 amps with ease.

zzvelik · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 02:15 pm »

Wayne,

Does your modded Elpac linear power supply work on the Touch?

TIA,

Z

Wayne1 · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 02:51 pm »

If you do not use an USB powered hard drive plugged into the Touch, you should be fine with an ELPAC.

Nick77 · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 03:19 pm »

Wayne any more impressions, do we all get Touch's and sell our dac's.

eclein · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 03:26 pm »

Nick77- I was wondering the exact same thing, was thinking Maverick DAC but now I just may go SB touch and sell my Duet receiver.

lcrim · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 03:31 pm »

Touch arrived around 5:00 PM yesterday. I used the Bolder PS, had some minor issues w/ the male plug on not being a perfect fit. Its OK now but did quit a few times while a fooled w/ cables.
For the first few hours I had it hooked up using analog outs into one input and DAC output into other amp input. My integrated has a pair of switched inputs. Used same analog cables in both cases. MF V DAC sounded better to my ears, not really close. At first Touch DAC was cleaner but truncated treble and bass. The treble via V DAC eventually cleard and the bass output was better than w/ SB3 that formerly lived there.
I still have SB3 into MHDT Paradisea upstairs in bedroom system. I did some listening to it to judge the differences. The SB3 was not as open but thats a different system w/ all tubes and I do get lost listening to it.
The Touch is however just a bit more open in general at this point. I did add the John Swenson argument via ssh connection to shut off the wlan card.
The longer I listen to the Touch the more nuance and inner detail I hear on music I'm quite familiar with.

tonyptony · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 04:36 pm »

I agree with your assessment Larry. In my case I still have my transport, my Bolder modded SB3 with digital mods + a lab grade linear supply, and my highly modded DAC. I first listened to the SB3 and Touch after breaking in the Touch for about 50 hours. Digital outs only. Wayne may or may not agree but for the most part the stock digital out on the Touch is better than my modded SB3 in my configuration. YOMD (Your Opinion May Differ) in your own system. Definitely more clarity, more inner detail, but maybe not quite as good in the low end. I understand the stock PS for the Touch and the Touch's power input stage have been greatly improved to where (in theory) going to a linear supply may not make that much difference (according to key beta testers on the Logitech site), but I'm not so sure. There may be some improvement possible in the low end. But apart from that the Touch digital is better in all respects.

I then compared it to my transport as a digital source and transport+DAC as an analog source. Long story short the SB3 was not better than my transport+DAC and neither is the Touch, for either digital or analog. Yes the Touch actually has better clarity than even my transport, but it's also "flatter" and not quite as musical somehow. I'm still listening to figure out how exactly. Music seems a bit more two-dimensional. I'm being really picky when in fact it's actually quite amazing how good it is, regardless of how much it may cost. I would rate the Touch digital as the keeper output. Analog is quite good but not as good as digital into a good DAC. Maybe better cables at the analog outs would have changed things. YMMV.

All listening was done level matched, BTW.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 04:48 pm »

I agree with Tony and Larry.

I spent a short amount of time listening to a Statement modded SB3 and the Touch. Both powered by an older Ultimate PS. I felt the digital output of the Touch sounded "better". I have yet to compare the Touch digital out to an Enthusiast level digital out.

I did prefer the analog outs of the Statement SB3, but they are phase inverted and a lower output level. I did switch phase on my speakers to compare.

There is no question, in my mind, that the digital output of the Touch can be improved by using a very good linear supply. The stock switcher may have been improved with a ferrite on the end of it, but it is still harsh in comparison to the supply I was using.

Overall, I would say a killer combo would be the Touch digital output used with the EE DAC with a good linear PS.

mcullinan · « **Reply #29 on:** 21 Apr 2010, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 14 Apr 2010, 10:21 pm

Now thats a scary comparison! a $250 SB vs a 2K Dac... I will try this weekend.

Im going out on a limb to say the digital output is exceptional. Not like my rep can be tarnished...heh.

You have a Bryston Bda-1? Ok here's my comparison. The touch dac is very good.
I'd say pretty similiar. Both have nice tone and a balanced
soundstage. Good detail on the Touch. Nice bass. Easy to listen too.
Now take away about a 15% fog and you are listening to the bda-1.
Soundstage is bigger & Little more defined too. The bda def pulls more
detail and layering out of the music. Voices have a nice depth. The
touch is def pleasing and tone is excellent. Plus it's really smooth,
musical. So I'd say you have 88 percent of what the bda-1 gives.
That's pretty great comparing a 2k dac to a $300 touch. The touch is a
nice improvement over the sb3.
Did a comparison vs the Bryston BDA-1.
M

darthkringle · « **Reply #30 on:** 22 Apr 2010, 01:36 am »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 21 Apr 2010, 04:48 pm

I agree with Tony and Larry.

I spent a short amount of time listening to a Statement modded SB3 and the Touch. Both powered by an older Ultimate PS. I felt the digital output of the Touch sounded "better". I have yet to compare the Touch digital out to an Enthusiast level digital out.

I did prefer the analog outs of the Statement SB3, but they are phase inverted and a lower output level. I did switch phase on my speakers to compare.

There is no question, in my mind, that the digital output of the Touch can be improved by using a very good linear supply. The stock switcher may have been improved with a ferrite on the end of it, but it is still harsh in comparison to the supply I was using.

Overall, I would say a killer combo would be the Touch digital output used with the EE DAC with a good linear PS.

Hi Wayne! Are you saying that the Digital Out on a Touch sounded better than the Statement Digital Mod? You also stated you had not compared the Digital out to the Enthusiast Mod, but isn't the Statement mod better than the Enthusiast? Am I backward? Do you foresee any Digital Mods to the Touch or is an upgrade likely only going to be in the PS. Very happy with my Bolder Enthusiast Digital Modded Duet....

Wayne1 · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 Apr 2010, 03:27 pm »

I did not compare the digital output on the Statement to the Touch. The Statement was designed to get the most out of the analog section. It included a regular level of the digital output mod.

Since I made the Statement, I have made improvements to the digital section. These were mostly carried out in the DUET. The DUET I have here doe not have all the latest updates. I will try to update this DUET and compare it to the Touch.

I did compare the Touch to a regular digital mod of the DUET and I felt the Touch did sound better.

I hope to be able to get into the Touch shortly. Then I will know if there is room for improvement. I think the internal power supplies might be able to be worked on.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #32 on:** 22 Apr 2010, 03:51 pm »

Don't care what people hear with the touch. It'll be a very cold day in hell before I retire my SB3 and PS that Wayne did for me. I'm a very satisfied customer of Wayne.

Cheers
Charlie

tonyptony · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 Apr 2010, 11:33 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 22 Apr 2010, 03:27 pm

I hope to be able to get into the Touch shortly. Then I will know if there is room for improvement. I think the internal power supplies might be able to be worked on.

Be careful taking it apart, or rather putting back together. Once opened the Touch is very fragile and hard to put back together.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 12:17 am »

Tony,

I popped it open for a look see this morning. There is not a lot to see

Very nice boards. Four layers make tracing out the circuits a bit harder.

Not a lot of room to put in audiophile grade caps or connectors.

It really isn't too hard to reassemble, but I do agree with the delicate part. The small #0 phillips head screws are rather easy to strip, however,

brj · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Apr 2010, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

Not a lot of room to put in audiophile grade caps or connectors.

Rebox!

prpixel · « **Reply #36 on:** 25 Apr 2010, 12:07 pm »

Wayne,

Will my ultimate nirvana PS work with the Touch? Also, can I then plug the regular wall wart PS back into the SB2?

Thanks,
Rolf

Wayne1 · « **Reply #37 on:** 26 Apr 2010, 01:25 pm »

Rolf,

Yes, the Ultimate Nirvana should work with the Touch and the stock supply will work fine with the SB2.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 07:19 pm »

The first round of mods has gotten underway.

If you think the Touch sounds good now, well there is more hiding inside

eclein · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 07:22 pm »

Wayne are you continuing to mod DUETS??