ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

thalvor · « **Reply #340 on:** 6 Oct 2008, 01:29 pm »

A picture of my two favorite rectifiers at the moment:

I’ve now had some time with some alternative rectifiers for the transporter. Here are my thoughts:

In comparison with the High Wycombe gz37 and the metal base gz34 the fat base gz34 and the gz32 was quickly dismissed. Trying to pick a favorite between the HW gz37 and the MB gz34 has proven to be difficult.

They are excellent rectifiers, but they have different strengths. They both produce a very wide soundstage. With the right recordings one is totally enveloped in sound as if listening to very sophisticated surround stereo. Still, for most recordings the HW gz37 does produce a slightly deeper soundstage. While some elements in the recording might sound more removed with the HW gz37, the MB gz34 presentation is in general more up-front. As a result the soundstage of the HW gz37 sounds a bit more airy and three-dimensional (maybe at the expense of sounding less focused on some music).

Of the two the MB gz34 is the slightly more dynamic. As others have commented on, this is especially noticeable in the upper bass region where the MB gz34 is punchier and more energic. Depending on the recording this might, or might not be welcomed. On some recordings with a lot of energy in the same region it can become a bit over-the-top with the MB gz34, but it is basically a matter of personal taste. I tend to prefer the sound of the more relaxed HW gz 37 on such recordings.

On the other hand the MB gz34 is slightly less grainy than the HW gz37 and the HW gz37 does sound slightly darker compared to the MB gz34.

For the time being I'm unable to pick a favorite and will be alternating between both rectifiers. I'm still waiting for the EML rectifier. I'll report back when it arrives.

Thomas

ted_b · « **Reply #341 on:** 6 Oct 2008, 03:05 pm »

Thomas,
I am having the same fun with three rectifiers I've been playing with.

I received your 6N6P's and put them in last week. After about 50 hrs or so I decided to start some listening. The metal base 5AR4, which had been married to the Raytheon black plate 6CG7's, was now married to the 6N6P, and the sound was lean, detailed and a little too thin for my tastes. Acoustic bass lost its magic, and the midrange was a bit recessed. It could still be a result of the signal tube break-in process, but I decided to try a different rectifier regardless. I installed my Philips GZ32 and the soundstage shrunk ever so slightly (not a deal breaker), but the bass energy was over the top and then some. And the detail went a bit grainy. On certain recordings this was workable, but overall the marriage was too mid-bass heavy. Next came my original (I own 5 now thanks to my local tube guy) Tung Sol 5U4G. The soundstage was slightly wider than even the MB, and slightly deeper too, bu the midbass hump was there, and the imaging was slightly smeared (Note: we are nitpicking here...on a desert island I'm fine with ANY one of these combos). Another 48 hours had passed and i went back to the metal base. This time not so thin; better meat on the bone, and detail was very very good....but there still seemed to be a slight analytical sound (maybe a bit hot at the top) compared to the reference system.

I had posted earlier that although the 6H30DR's were an incredible pair for the 36.5 (as we've all agreed) they were too over the top, almost too dynamic, to be doubled up at the TP as well (with the metal base rectifier). But since that post I've added a pair of monoblock Spectrons, upgraded my ac outlets to Synergistic Research TeslaPlex ones, and have several hundred more hours on the metal base. Although the 6N6P's were starting to come into their own, I was tempted to put the DR's back in and hear what they sounded like. So I did. Well, last night the sound was very very much to my liking. Not over the top, but very dynamic, very balanced, lots of energy, lots of clean bass and beautiful midrange. Maybe this is what the 6N6P's will sound like once completely broken-in, but for now I'm gonna live with this combo and let it's third row center perspective grow on me. I might decide its too close, but for now I'm enjoying it.

thalvor · « **Reply #342 on:** 6 Oct 2008, 09:02 pm »

Ted,

good to hear they arrived safely and thanks for your assessment. If you have almost 100 hours on them I would expect they have pretty much settled now and that there will be only minor alterations in the sound with further use. It would have been almost too good to be true if this very cheap tube could topple the 6H30DR's. I've put in a order for a pair of 6H30DR's at Parts and Connections now so that I can see if they will have the same positive effect in my system as many here are reporting. I've got a pair of JJ ECC99 waiting to be tried out as well. From what I've read Alex Peychev seem to prefer these new production tubes over both the 6N6P's and the 6H30DR's. I'll report back on my thoughts on this.

Thomas

ted_b · « **Reply #343 on:** 6 Oct 2008, 09:49 pm »

Thomas, Don't get me wrong. The 6N6P is likely a real find!! I'm just impatient, but if the 6N6P's continue to improve at that pace they will be the poor man's DR in no time.

On a sad note....ARGH, my metal base died.

I noticed last night that the base itself is loose and will "unscrew" or move slightly, maybe an eighth of a rotation. I wonder if I broke any connections. It seems the tube lights up a little, then goes dark. ARGH! in the meantime, I'm trying one of my trusty Tung Sol 5U4GB's to hear whether they are sonically the same as their somewhat bass-heavy bottle shaped "G" cousin. In the 36.5 they are magical (and clearly different than their G version).

Philistine · « **Reply #344 on:** 6 Oct 2008, 10:28 pm »

I'm still waiting for my 6N6P's, any day now - I see that their are different 'vintages' and manufacturing plants, so not sure what relevance this has or not as it does with the 6H30's? I still prefer the detail of the 6N1P's, but still come back to the 6H30DR's as being the best all rounders so far.

Rectifier Tubes
I still find the GZ34 metal to be a magical tube, smooth, detailed, good bass and very musical.
The Emission Labs 5U4G-Mesh look interesting, the other esoteric tune is the Sophia Princess 274B (if this is compatible with the TP). It will be interesting to hear your comments Thomas when you get the EML - it does look very well engineered.

ted_b · « **Reply #345 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 03:24 am »

Well, as Mark Twain once said "the rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated"...my metal base comes back to life. It required some patience and a hefty push into the socket (although the tube was well-seated....dunno). It's a bit temperamental, so thanks Thomas (thalvor) for the link to a couple more. Net/net, after a few hours with the 5U4GB (which held its own against the G and GZ32), there ain't nothin like the detail and incredible balance of the metal base. Ahhhhhhhh.

JG2 · « **Reply #346 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 03:32 am »

Just snagged another metal base today from Italy..............can't have enough of those things!

I can stop anytime I want...........really.............I don't have a GZ34 metal base addiction!

rpf · « **Reply #347 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 07:38 am »

Quote from: thalvor on 6 Oct 2008, 09:02 pm

Ted,

good to hear they arrived safely and thanks for your assessment. If you have almost 100 hours on them I would expect they have pretty much settled now and that there will be only minor alterations in the sound with further use. It would have been almost too good to be true if this very cheap tube could topple the 6H30DR's. I've put in a order for a pair of 6H30DR's at Parts and Connections now so that I can see if they will have the same positive effect in my system as many here are reporting. I've got a pair of JJ ECC99 waiting to be tried out as well. From what I've read Alex Peychev seem to prefer these new production tubes over both the 6N6P's and the 6H30DR's. I'll report back on my thoughts on this.

Thomas

I've heard that too but I didn't know the ECC99 was a direct replacement for the 6H30?

thalvor · « **Reply #348 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 01:15 pm »

Many of the Ebay'ers selling the 6N6P are claiming that it is substitutable with the ECC99, so I have just assumed that the ECC99 would also work in the transporter. I'm very interested in knowing for certain if this is a tube applicable in the transporter - don't want to fry my dream machine

Here's a link to the ECC99's datasheet: http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC99.pdf

Thomas

Philistine · « **Reply #349 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 03:00 pm »

Quote from: thalvor on 7 Oct 2008, 01:15 pm

Many of the Ebay'ers selling the 6N6P are claiming that it is substitutable with the ECC99, so I have just assumed that the ECC99 would also work in the transporter. I'm very interested in knowing for certain if this is a tube applicable in the transporter - don't want to fry my dream machine

Here's a link to the ECC99's datasheet: http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC99.pdf

Thomas

From what I understand the ECC99 may not work in the TP - I would check with Dan first.

ted_b · « **Reply #350 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 05:15 pm »

I PM'd Dan earlier today, once this came up, to ask him to swoop in and comment.

thalvor · « **Reply #351 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 07:42 pm »

Parts and Connexions not selling 6H30DR's anymore due to supplier problems

Any other good source?

Philistine · « **Reply #352 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: thalvor on 7 Oct 2008, 07:42 pm

Parts and Connexions not selling 6H30DR's anymore due to supplier problems Any other good source?

There is a seller on Audiogon - Conus

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1227463443&/Nos.-Supertube.-6H30P-DR.bat.-

miklorsmith · « **Reply #353 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 08:30 pm »

$155 for one!? Crimeny.

rydenfan · « **Reply #354 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 09:40 pm »

Quote from: JG2 on 7 Oct 2008, 03:32 am

Just snagged another metal base today from Italy..............can't have enough of those things!

I can stop anytime I want...........really.............I don't have a GZ34 metal base addiction!

I may need to pick another one up. As all of you know I preferred the HW GZ37 that I have to the metal base GZ34, but I have since switched speakers. Once they settle in it would be interesting to re-compare these two great tubes.

Ted, just give me a few weeks and you can borrow my GZ37 before you buy one. I have plenty of other tubes I can use for a bit.

I head to Miami for work for a few days and all the sudden there is some action on here. Oh well, off to go look at the action on South Beach

ted_b · « **Reply #355 on:** 7 Oct 2008, 11:12 pm »

With my metal base being so finnicky (once again needed to wiggle it to power it up) I picked up another one today for $104 (after 20% Ebay buy it now cashback). I'll report on its sonics once it arrives.

David, thanks, maybe this time i can listen to it.

Edit (later that same evening):
So my metal base continues to taunt me, and may now have given up the ghost one final time. It doesn't respond to any jostling, etc. So I tried the fat base (black) Mullard 5AR4 with the DR's, and to my surprise it was the leanest and least powerful sounding of any of the rectifier/signal combos. Everything collapsed slightly, and the lower octaves lost control and extension. It was as if the DR's were replaced with stock 6H30's (It continues, frankly, to amaze me how a rectifier can affect the sonics so greatly). Just for the hell of it, and because it was lying next to the TP, I tried again the Philips (Mullard) GZ32, this time of course with the DR's, not the earlier 6N6P's. Well.......I'll be damned...easily my second most favorite combo of the past few weeks (metal base w/DR's being the fave). In fact, it is a very close second, with all the dynamics, soundstage depth, clarity and balance of the metal base. Weird that with the powerful DR's it is behaving much better and much more in line with the metal base than when paired with the 6N6P, where it was bass heavy, grainy and slightly constricted width-wise. I guess it's about synergy.

Net/net, try all your combos. In some cases, as Thom Yorke would say, "2+2 = 5".

JG2 · « **Reply #356 on:** 8 Oct 2008, 03:36 am »

I am answering for Dan here as he is running full tilt to get ready for RMAF.

He doesn't think the ECC99 is a drop in replacement for the TP output tubes.

Nice buy on the metal base GZ34, Ted!

rpf · « **Reply #357 on:** 8 Oct 2008, 07:58 pm »

Tube updates (for my Modwright Plat. Truth Sony 9100 and LS 36.5):

Finally got and tried a Tung Sol 5U4G (thanks to Jerrym). Very nice and a great value. More forward and dynamic, with sharper leading edge transients, than any of the other tubes I've tried. Less ease and depth, less holographic, than the others, especially, of course, the HW GZ37.

Most interestingly, it seems to me most like the Mullard/Philips GZ32 of the 5V4 family. They share a tighter (pronounced leading edge transients), more focused sound. The GZ32, while less forward and dynamic, is more refined, and still without peer in its three dimensional portrayal of individual images, particularly voices, which can be eerily real.

Overall, I still most prefer the HW GZ37 in the CDP (though it is fun to switch in the GZ32 or 5U4G, depending on source material) and a 5AR4 in the linestage. Mostly using a metal base Bugle Boy 5AR4 but at times I've found a smooth plate '70s Japanese Mullard very enjoyable. The latter has a fuller, richer bass and lower mid-range; if less air, delicacy, ambient detail and depth than the Amperex. The Japanese pieces are a great bargain, however, at the going rate of around $60. NOS.

FWIW, if anyone here is interested, I'll be putting one of my extra NOS HW GZ37s (black base, grey plates) up for sale at the price I paid for it at the end of last year ($30-75. less than the dealers are asking now). First dibs to Jerrym.

Rob

Philistine · « **Reply #358 on:** 8 Oct 2008, 08:36 pm »

Quote from: JG2 on 8 Oct 2008, 03:36 am

I am answering for Dan here as he is running full tilt to get ready for RMAF.

He doesn't think the ECC99 is a drop in replacement for the TP output tubes.

Nice buy on the metal base GZ34, Ted!

Thanks for the clarification on the ECC99 John - and stop distorting market prices by buying all those metal base 5AR4's!.
My 6N6P's arrived today - also just sent my amp psu for mod so not sure if I'll be able to do a reliable A/B with these and the 6H30's or not, I'll fire up my Butler amp anyway (or anyways - as my kids with their annoying Pittsburgh accents say).
The 6N6P's look similar in design to the 6H30's but the guys who built them must have drunk to much vodka as the pins and internal 'stuff' looks drunk.

rpf · « **Reply #359 on:** 8 Oct 2008, 09:05 pm »

Forgot to mention that I finally also spent some time really comparing the new production 6H30Ps to the 6H30DRs - and of course now I can't go back. There's an annoying hardness to the stock tubes while the DRs, besides giving more truthful tonality, also provide improved imaging.

Does anyone know the estimated hour life of the DRs?