[Rick Craig]

Line sources are not that much harder than point sources for working into a room.  They need more sidewall attention but less floor/ceiling (which most people ignore anyways, though they shouldn't if in a serious 2-channel room).

The differences between expensive drivers and the inexpensive drivers available are not that incredible, not only that, but having a driver built to your exact specifications is what really matters...price doesn't always translate into better results.

As for the speakers/brands you mentioned, this is my opinion on them:

The Salk HT3s are supposed to be wonderful speakers, but are somewhat limited by needing big amps.
The AV123 LS-6 is supposed to be a great design, but the company has some questions surrounding it at this time (last I heard, they do have a few finishes in stock and ready to ship)...the drivers used are in fact high quality and there is a bass management system to better integrate the low end into the room.
I don't know too much about the VMPS design.
Selah has some very nice stuff and the prices are also quite reasonable, the Line Source designs won't go as low as the LS-6, but will integrate very well with subwoofers.

If you plan on running big powerful amps, then any of these will do well.

The associated gear might

Actually we have ported versions of the 7" woofer arrays which will go lower than the LS-6 and don't need any bass management. Most of our customers opt to go with sealed arrays and outboard subs because a good 10" or 12" sub will always trump a 7" in terms of bass extension.

Custom drivers are really not all that important; in fact, many of them are inferior to off-the-shelf drivers. Manufacturers use them primarily for two reasons - 1) buying them in large quantities for a good price and 2)having a proprietary speaker design that would be difficult to copy.

[Rick Craig]

...the AV123 LS series, while it very impressive speaker, uses fairly low quality drivers compared to nearly anything Selah sells. They are the same Peerless India woofer is used in the $249 X-LS series.

-Will

WHOA...I won't go into detail in Rick's forum, but to imply that the custom drivers in the GR-Research line are low quality is incorrect. You also have an error about which tweeters are used in the LS series. Yes, Selah uses more expensive drivers.  Talk to the the designers for both companies before you buy.  I have heard products from both. They are both talented.  And yes, a line source should do well in the space described.

Both Peerless/India and BG make some decent drivers.

[Rick Craig]

I don't think your room is too small for a line array. I will say that the AV123 LS series, while it very impressive speaker, uses fairly low quality drivers compared to nearly anything Selah sells. The woofer is a relative of a Peerless woofer that's used in a $249 x-ls. It has a stronger motor structure. The woofer probably costs them less than $100 each.

I've heard them at a get-together, they have a very impressive soundstage but the bass, while extended, seemed like it could be a little bit cleaner. They don't need a subwoofer for anything over 20hz.

Also, I would never, ever, ever buy anything from AV123 that isn't in stock and ready to ship RIGHT NOW. They've had endless problems with quality assurance, refunds, and preorders lately. They are, or used to be at least, a very good value though.

(rick, feel free to edit my post if any of this is inappropriate)

-Will

The entire AV123 situation really hurts all of us selling direct via the Internet. Based on information inside the business I'm not the least surprised about what has happened. I'm sure it's been quite an embarrassment to Danny and any LS6 buyers would be much better off to buy a kit from GR Research.

[cadobhuk]

Here's a read I found interesting : a review of ls6 at audiogon. It is overall positive but in terms of clarity and accuracy the author actually prefered Merlin VSM-MXe which is a $10k/pair 2-way floorstander using dynaudio Esotar and scan speak 8545. Which is pretty suprising to me considering that midrange transparency of 8545 is not really among the best AFAIR (correct me if I'm wrong).
Another thing that suprises me is that av123 site lists both ls6 and ls9 at 90db efficiency despite the one being 8 pairs of drivers and another 12 pairs. I think they are both equalized in some way for low bass extension and ls9's overall output is equalized down more to reach a lower extension.

[kip_]

I don't think they're equalized - they use some tricks to make the woofers operate below their Fs (resonant frequency). PM Danny [Richie] on this site if you want full details. That 90db sensitivity on the other hand is suspect if it's the same for both. It's probably an estimate for the LS9 since it's just now going into production.

[Rick Craig]

Here's a read I found interesting : a review of ls6 at audiogon. It is overall positive but in terms of clarity and accuracy the author actually prefered Merlin VSM-MXe which is a $10k/pair 2-way floorstander using dynaudio Esotar and scan speak 8545. Which is pretty suprising to me considering that midrange transparency of 8545 is not really among the best AFAIR (correct me if I'm wrong).
Another thing that suprises me is that av123 site lists both ls6 and ls9 at 90db efficiency despite the one being 8 pairs of drivers and another 12 pairs. I think they are both equalized in some way for low bass extension and ls9's overall output is equalized down more to reach a lower extension.

$10K for a 7" 2-way? I guess I need to raise our prices. 

You have to consider that in an array you're spreading the cost over many drivers. Cabinet and shipping costs are also higher with arrays. In the original post here the Salk HT3 or one of our comparable floorstanders is going to have better quality drivers than the LS6. The tonality of the array is still limited as a 2-way plus bass extension won't be as deep. The array will have higher sensitivity and a different soundstage so you have to pick your tradeoffs.

Passive bass EQ really isn't the way to go as it introduces other problems such as lower impedance, difficult phase angles for the amp, and response problems due to the circuit's interaction with the woofers and box tuning. This can easily be seen with nearfield tests and accurate crossover software. We are one of the few Internet-Direct speaker companies that publishes nearfield tests for bass which are widely accepted as the industry standard (along with anechoic tests).

[Rick Craig]

I don't think they're equalized - they use some tricks to make the woofers operate below their Fs (resonant frequency). PM Danny [Richie] on this site if you want full details. That 90db sensitivity on the other hand is suspect if it's the same for both. It's probably an estimate for the LS9 since it's just now going into production.

The sensitivity can vary according to the number of woofers as well as how the drivers (woofers and tweeters) are wired for impedance. The BG planars are the limitation here because their sensitivity is not high enough to match up with the woofers. Virtually any array with the BG planars is going to have a downward sloping response because the woofers have higher sensitivity (typically 3db -8db depending on the driver and wiring configuration).

[cadobhuk]

This post at AVS is yet another piece of information to  reinforce my feeling that driver quality makes a big difference and the LS series are not in the same league with Rick's arrays.

[satfrat]

Here's a read I found interesting : a review of ls6 at audiogon. It is overall positive but in terms of clarity and accuracy the author actually prefered Merlin VSM-MXe which is a $10k/pair 2-way floorstander using dynaudio Esotar and scan speak 8545. Which is pretty suprising to me considering that midrange transparency of 8545 is not really among the best AFAIR (correct me if I'm wrong).
Another thing that suprises me is that av123 site lists both ls6 and ls9 at 90db efficiency despite the one being 8 pairs of drivers and another 12 pairs. I think they are both equalized in some way for low bass extension and ls9's overall output is equalized down more to reach a lower extension.

AFAIC, from what I've been living with for the last 4 years, you're way off base about the Scan Speak 8545 (carbon fiber) which has one of the sweetest midranges I've ever heard.

Cheers,
Robin

[arthurs]

This post at AVS is yet another piece of information to  reinforce my feeling that driver quality makes a big difference and the LS series are not in the same league with Rick's arrays.

Have you actually heard the GR LS speakers? 

[Rick Craig]

This post at AVS is yet another piece of information to  reinforce my feeling that driver quality makes a big difference and the LS series are not in the same league with Rick's arrays.

Have you actually heard the GR LS speakers? 

No, he's only speculating. I have no desire to start a pissing match here with GR owners like yourself.

[arthurs]

No intent for a pissing match here Rick, I just wondered if the poster had heard an LS speaker as basis for his comments... 

Peace,

Art

[cadobhuk]

Here's a read I found interesting : a review of ls6 at audiogon. It is overall positive but in terms of clarity and accuracy the author actually prefered Merlin VSM-MXe which is a $10k/pair 2-way floorstander using dynaudio Esotar and scan speak 8545. Which is pretty suprising to me considering that midrange transparency of 8545 is not really among the best AFAIR (correct me if I'm wrong).
Another thing that suprises me is that av123 site lists both ls6 and ls9 at 90db efficiency despite the one being 8 pairs of drivers and another 12 pairs. I think they are both equalized in some way for low bass extension and ls9's overall output is equalized down more to reach a lower extension.

AFAIC, from what I've been living with for the last 4 years, you're way off base about the Scan Speak 8545 (carbon fiber) which has one of the sweetest midranges I've ever heard.

Cheers,
Robin

I know it's a good driver and has better midrange than average (and amazing bass) but in regards to transparency/detail, isnt the revelator superior, and seas/accuton woofers superior to revelator? My point is that one of selah arrays using seas/accuton/revs would most likely leave that 2-way speaker behind in every possible aspect, and comparing them to LS series is not really fair. Which is not to say that LS series sound bad for their respective prices, in fact I'd surprised if they did. Their performance could even be incredible compared to most commercially available products of the similar price.
No I have not heard it, but the people who wrote the impressions I linked to, did. Their experience confirms my expectations based on the components used.

[arthurs]

No I have not heard it, but the people who wrote the impressions I linked to, did. Their experience confirms my expectations based on the components used.

Thanks for helping us understand the basis of your opinion/assessment

[Carl V]

I've heard many of those speakers & drivers....what's "best" is a subjective
assesment.  "better" is more often ageed upon as clear, detailed or dynamic.
Timbre of the instrument being reproduced. Tone & Pitch.

In fact recently we had 2-ways with the 8545K, an Asian Variation
of the 8545 with Be, the Slit cone-SSR, the Accuton 7" SRA Rapide, 
Accutons Garnets, Focal Mini Utopia Be, Pegasus & 1801.

All were & are damn fine sounding speakers. 
Sorta like Gibson VS Taylor guitars VS Martin (certain vintages)
Gryphon, Santa Cruz...etc.,
Flat wire string, various nylon or steel strings. 
Tone & action varies for instrument & performer.

At the end of the day most people gave the nod to those speakers with
the newer higher tech materials.  And quite often the non-audiophile had
the same preferences...without knowing materails.